Perhaps the hon. Lady would be interested in the example of Sweden, which has found that the cost of whiplash injuries to insurers, and therefore the public,

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can be limited by restricting—time-barring, effectively—the time within which a claim can be put in to three to four days after the accident. Perhaps a week or two weeks would be a better proposal for time-barring people in the UK.

Angela Crawley: I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s comments. I recognise what he says about a limit on the length of time for making claims, but not every person might be able to claim within two weeks of experiencing an accident. We must consider such issues, but I do welcome the point that other European countries have imposed all manner of limits, sanctions and bans that have resulted in fewer claims.

As I was saying, the cost of fraud is equivalent to £330 for every person in the country, which is an astronomical figure that we should not impose on our constituents. However, in taking action against fraudulent claims, we must make sure we tread carefully.

Between 2008 and 2011, 1.9 million motor injury claims were made in England. In the same period, 75,000 claims were made in Scotland. That amounts to 25 times more claims being made in England than in Scotland. Given my legal experience, I acknowledge that protections must exist for individuals who have experienced accidents, and they should have the right to seek damages.

The current law does allow for some effective sanctions. Harsh judgments against those found to have claimed fraudulently act as a deterrent to others. Lower damages can be awarded for the non-fraudulent part of the claim, an action routinely imposed for punitive and deterrent reasons. Adverse costs orders can be applied in most cases, wiping out or even exceeding the value of any award. Contempt of court applications can be brought, leading to imprisonment. Criminal proceedings can be brought against those who bring fraudulent cases, leading to heavy fines or imprisonment. Those deterrents against personal injury fraud mean that our court systems already have the power to punish and deter fraudulent claims. We must make sure that any change to legislation does not impede fair settlements, access to justice or the efficient functioning of our courts.

3.18 pm

Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Lincoln (Karl McCartney) on securing the debate. The subject is not totally unfamiliar; indeed, it was debated quite a lot in the last Parliament. I refreshed my memory earlier about a debate we had almost exactly two years ago—on 7 November 2013—entitled “Motor Insurance (Whiplash)”. I spoke for 30 minutes in that debate, and I refer hon. Members to that speech to spare them from having me repeat the whole of it now. Much of it is still relevant, which is sad in a way, and that might be an indictment of the Government for not having done more. Perhaps we can blame that on the coalition, which was a completely different organisation—there are no Liberal Democrats around to protest any more, so we can always blame them.

I dealt with this issue for five years, and I thought I had finally got rid of it, but my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner), who is responsible for dealing with it, is away somewhere, so I

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am reprising the subject. The last time we debated it, the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire (Mr Vara), had just taken over the brief, and now the current Minister is acquainting herself with it. It is an interesting subject, and perhaps I may say without any disrespect to the hon. Member for Lincoln that there was good and bad in what he said. I was with him for much of his speech, until at the end he drew conclusions that did not all perfectly derive from the facts at his disposal. One of the problems is that we do not always have the facts that we need on this issue.

I think we all detest cold calls, because we believe they are parasitical, and they are severely irritating. As far as I am aware, cold calls from law firms are already banned. Many of the cold calls that we receive come from call centres run outside the UK, which have become an industry in themselves. I do not think a single Member of the House, or indeed member of the public, would not want a crackdown on them, and want them to be banned and excluded. The problem is that it is difficult to do that, but I hope that the Minister will be able to say what the Government intend to do along those lines.

Chris Philp: Even if one cannot ban calls emanating from outside the UK, there could certainly be a ban on any UK organisation, including law firms, using information derived from such extraterritorial calls. Will the hon. Gentleman join me in calling on the Government to institute such a ban?

Andy Slaughter: As I have said, I believe that calls made in that way are banned. I will come on to say a bit more about law firms in a moment, but I think that would be the case for any such form of abuse.

The other area where I am entirely at one with the hon. Member for Lincoln is on referral fees. Again, the previous Government came to the issue late in the day. There were late amendments—on Report, I think—to the Bill that became the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, banning referral fees. We thought that that did not go far enough and would have liked them to be criminalised. I am afraid that the implementation by the Ministry of Justice was rather cack-handed and amateur for a while. That is getting better, and there has been a crackdown on claims management companies, which I welcome, as well as an extension of the ban on referral fees. Referral fees do not have any place in the British legal system. Those are the key ways of stopping such abuse.

The percentage of personal injury claims being made for whiplash has fallen, but Members are right to ask why the number of personal injury claims is increasing while the number of motor accidents is falling. One reason, undoubtedly, is greater use of advertisement, which encourages more people to claim. That does not necessarily mean that the claims are fraudulent, but it does mean that there is an industry encouraging the making of claims.

Thus far, so good, but the hon. Gentleman suddenly shoehorned into the end of his speech the conclusion that the small claims limit for personal injury should be extended to £5,000, the limitation period should be

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12 months, and the quantum in such cases should be rigidly enforceable. I am afraid I cannot agree with him on that. It would be to attack a basic principle of English law—the principle of the courts’ discretion.

We already have clear Judicial Studies Board guidelines on quantum. There are reasons for the relatively short limitation period of three years. The hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) mentioned that injuries are not always immediately evident. As for the old chestnut about raising the small claims limit to £5,000, I am entirely in agreement that after 16 years, if that is how long it has been, it is right to raise the limit proportionally by whatever the inflation rate has been during that time. It might mean taking the limit up to £2,000 or something of that order. Raising it to £5,000, however, would exclude 90% of all personal injury claims. For someone on a low income in particular, £5,000 is a substantial amount of money, and it is wrong for people in that situation not to have the benefit of legal advice. I see an ABI agenda there—that is what it always wants. Insurance companies are particularly keen on effectively taking lawyers out of the personal injury process, so that the relationship is between the victim and the insurer.

Julian Knight: Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that it is not just about an ABI agenda but about trying to reduce the cost of insurance to the public? The personal injury claim blight means that hard-working families must pay extra for their insurance.

Andy Slaughter: That is an opportune intervention, because that was to be my next point.

Karl McCartney: Before the hon. Gentleman moves on to that next point, may I stay with the previous point and say that I am no apologist for lawyers and solicitors or their firms, or for the ABI or any insurance company? In fact, I am no friend of any insurance company. I am here, as are many other hon. Members, because our constituents’ premiums rise every year. Unfortunately, no harm comes to insurance companies when premiums go up to pay for fraudulent claims, because they just pass on the costs in their turnover figures to the little people at the bottom of the scale. I see where the hon. Gentleman is coming from, but I was trying to say that we need to root out the lawyers, solicitors and claims management firms that use the moneys available in the system to feather their nest.

Andy Slaughter: I entirely accept what the hon. Gentleman says, but I am perhaps slightly more sceptical about insurance companies’ use of data. There is an idea that whenever premiums fall, as they have recently, that is because firms are cracking down on fraud, and when they rise it is because of an increase in fraud. The reality of finances, insurance companies’ activities and fraud is far more complicated. For many years, the figure for fraud that was often given was 7%. I do not know whether it has changed—I think the figure of 11% was quoted in the debate in relation to one insurer—but 7% is a high figure for fraud. Of course, that still means that insurance companies estimate that 93% of claims are non-fraudulent and come from genuine victims. However, I have heard the figure for the percentage of claims that are partly or wholly fraudulent put as low as 1%; I have also heard it put much higher than 7%.

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Karl McCartney: I need to clarify those statistics, because the percentages relate to identifiable fraud. That is not to say that all claims are fraudulent—far from it. None of us minds people who have really been injured receiving their just compensation. Fraud that is easily identifiable, which the insurance companies chase down, is at the level the hon. Gentleman is talking about, but that is not to say that the 93%, or any other residual percentage, represents bona fide claims. There might well be other fraudulent claims within those percentages.

Andy Slaughter: I do not want to argue about statistics endlessly, given that part of my argument is that the statistics are not robust. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman looked at the briefing for the debate by the Law Society, which is of course the professional body for solicitors. There are concerns that insurers use figures about levels of fraud as it suits them.

The point that concerns me is that the remedies that insurers resort to are, in some cases, more likely to encourage fraud. The principal one is third-party capture. There is an increasing trend for insurers to contact victims directly, offer a settlement and discourage them from contacting solicitors—and, if they have contacted them, to ask for information about that. They are not entitled to that information, but rather in the manner of claims managers who, as we have heard, use bullying behaviour to try to substantiate fraudulent claims or exaggerate claims, I am afraid insurance companies increasingly approach people in the same way, to try to get a quick, early settlement without medical reporting or professional advice. That may well minimise the value of the claim—I have no doubt that that is the intention—so someone who has a genuine and possibly quite serious injury may settle for a relatively trivial sum of money. However, it may also encourage fraud, because if there is no medical report or lawyer to act as an arbiter of whether a claim is genuine, the insurer, for commercial reasons, might settle a claim that could well be fraudulent. We should be worried about the growth of third-party capture, which would undoubtedly be massively encouraged if small claims were lifted disproportionately.

I am not saying that there is not bad practice by law firms, because there certainly is. I am talking not even about dubious practice, but about sharp practice in marketing skills. However, as one would expect, the overwhelming majority of solicitors act in a proper and professional manner. They have the ability, through the askCUE system, to determine whether someone who comes to them with a claim has claimed previously, and they are encouraged to make such checks to see if that is happening.

I sound a note of caution not because I think that anything raised by the hon. Member for Lincoln is inappropriate. It is just that, as in many things, there is a balance to strike. I was glad to hear the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East speak about victims. Let us not forget them in this case. Political parties often speak up for victims of crime, but victims of accidents are also victims. I would not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say that genuine victims of accidents should not get access to justice or be properly remunerated.

I baulk at the constant refrain about a compensation culture. Time and time again it has been shown, including by the Government’s own experts, that no such culture exists in this country. On the contrary, recent consumer

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surveys have shown that only 17% of people say that their default position would be to seek compensation after receiving poor treatment. I do not think it is naturally British to think that, as a consequence of poor treatment or customer service or even an injury, the first thing one would do is immediately go to claim compensation.

Chris Philp: The hon. Gentleman may well be correct, but the problem is that ordinary, law-abiding citizens are being harassed and incited by claims management companies to invent claims—I stand here today because I am one such person. That is why the Government need to go beyond the action they have taken already. I hope that he agrees, given that he used to practise personal injury law.

Andy Slaughter: I did indeed practise personal injury law, but, for the avoidance of doubt, I should say that 90% of my practice was for insurers, so I do not think I can be accused of parti pris. I can see it from both sides of the fence, and if I am talking about claimants and victims, that is just to give a bit of balance to the debate.

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman, and I hope that, when we hear from the Minister, we will hear what is being done specifically to crack down on those calls. I do not want to put the hon. Gentleman on the spot about whether, in his case, he was able to report to either the MOJ or the police that he was being suborned in such a way, but I hope that people do that. If there were a couple of high-profile cases, perhaps instigated by Members of Parliament, in which pestilential claims management companies and cold callers were held to account, that would be a tonic for reducing the practice substantially. If the Minister can shed any light on what the Government can do on enforcement, I will be pleased to hear that.

We must look at both sides of the argument. We have to take action based on evidence, and we have to realise that there are many vested interests. Yes, the claims management companies have interests and we must be on guard against fraud, but we must also be aware of the interests of the insurance industry, which are not always at one with those of the motorist or consumer. It does not always follow that what the industry asks for is beneficial not just to victims or potential victims, but to motorists as a whole. I hope that we can crack down on fraud and relieve the consumer of the burden of calls—I get them myself on many issues—but I also hope that, on this as on other matters, we will bear in mind that the interests of victims and those with meritorious claims for personal injury should be respected.

3.35 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities and Family Justice (Caroline Dinenage): May I say what a delight it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Wilson? I add my praise to that already heaped on my hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln (Karl McCartney) for securing this important debate on personal injury fraud and its impact on individuals and motor insurance premiums. He has been a dedicated and tenacious campaigner on this important issue.

I will state at the beginning that I am not the Minister with responsibility for this matter in the Ministry of Justice. That honour falls to my colleague, Lord Faulks.

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I will of course make sure that all the points made today that I am unable to cover are responded to by my noble and learned Friend, and that he is well aware of all the suggestions made by hon. Members from across the House.

My hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln has a number of concerns about personal injury fraud and nuisance calls in particular, which both he and my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp) mentioned. Those pernicious calls cause annoyance and distress to many people, particularly the elderly and vulnerable. I will address that in due course. First, I would like to say a few words about some of the measures and initiatives introduced by this and the previous coalition Government.

We have been, and continue to be, committed to tackling the problems in this market. There have been some real challenges for the Government in trying to put right the imbalances that have led to the disproportionate growth in personal injury claims. We know, as many Members have articulated, that reported road traffic accidents fell from approximately 190,000 in 2006 to about 140,000 in 2013, when the previous Government began to introduce their reforms. That is a reduction of more than 20%, yet at the same time the number of road traffic personal injury claims rose from about 520,000 in 2006 to 760,000 last year—an increase of about 50%. That is a clear indication, if one was needed, that there is a problem and that the Government should consider further reforms to combat this distasteful culture, which we believe is in part being driven by the constant barrage of phone calls and texts messages that my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South so powerfully described.

The Government accept that many personal injury claims are genuine, but it is also clear that many speculative, exaggerated and fraudulent claims are being made. Sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference between the two, but it is not right that people who try to cheat the system should be allowed to get away with it and, as so many Members have said, thereby force up the price of motor insurance for honest, law-abiding motorists. There are considerable costs in dealing with such claims, which have a significant impact on the cost of premiums. According to the ABI, the annual cost to the industry from whiplash claims is £2 billion, which, as has been said, adds some £90 to the average motor insurance premium.

I will pause there and go back in time to set the scene. My hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln is a long-standing member of the Select Committee on Transport and he will be aware that just over five years have passed since Lord Justice Jackson published his review of the cost of civil litigation. That may seem quite a long time ago now, but the previous Government and this one have been busy ever since with a substantial programme of reform.

The Jackson reforms, introduced through the implementation of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, were a key achievement in addressing bad behaviours in the personal injury sector. The reforms introduced a ban on the referral fees that many lawyers, solicitors and claims management companies used to buy and sell claims. We agreed that the system of no win, no fee arrangements was not fit

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for purpose—that, in fact, it had the perverse effect of encouraging litigation—and so reformed the system to return balance to it, making sure that costs were no longer all heaped on defendants and that claimants had a financial stake in their claim. Our reforms were explicitly aimed at controlling costs and discouraging unmeritorious claims, while enabling genuine cases to be pursued, although of course at lower cost than before, which is why we also put in place measures to encourage earlier settlement.

Speculative and unnecessary whiplash claims are some of the most unmeritorious of all claims, as many Members mentioned. Following a Downing Street summit in February 2012, the Government committed to introducing reforms to tackle the number and cost of whiplash claims. In response to that commitment, the Ministry of Justice has worked with stakeholders to produce a wide-ranging set of reforms to introduce much-needed independence to, and improve the quality of, the medical evidence used in such cases.

Andy Slaughter: The Minister has mentioned the notorious insurers’ summit, when the Prime Minister invited the major insurance companies to 10 Downing Street, but no one representing the claimants’ side. Does she think that that might have been a mistake? Does she agree that the Government should listen to both claimants and defendants?

Caroline Dinenage: We can dwell on the past, but the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that we need to listen to all sides in the argument. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) pointed out, important steps have since been taken on medical reports. The first phase of the reforms included measures to reduce and fix the cost of initial whiplash medical reports at £180, to allow defendants to give their account to the expert for the first time, to discourage insurers from making pre-medical offers to settle, and to ban experts who write the medical reports from also treating the claimant.

Andy Slaughter: I am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but she is tempting me. She just mentioned third-party capture, but if the Government really want to stop it, why should it not be banned? I think she is about to mention MedCo. That has been a disaster, which is why we are having a full review only a few months after its introduction.

Caroline Dinenage: If the hon. Gentleman will hold his horses for just a moment, I will move on to some of those issues. MedCo has introduced a robust new accreditation scheme for medical experts, who need to attain accreditation by 2016 or they will be removed from the system. We hope that that will begin to take effect, but a further reform to control fraudulent claims at source was implemented on 1 June 2015, as he will know. Claimant lawyers were given access to insurance industry data and must now check the number of claims their potential client has made before accepting the claim.

The Government are particularly pleased that stakeholders put aside their differences to develop a consensus on sharing data and improving medical evidence. Such a consensus can only be positive for all involved and we look forward to continuing to work closely with

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stakeholders. The Government have also taken firm action to ban both lawyers and claims management companies from offering claimants inducements to bring frivolous claims. Although it is still early days in terms of monitoring the impact of the reforms, Government figures show that the number of whiplash claims has gone down by around 70,000 since 2011-12. That is a good start, but we remain concerned about the number of claims made and their impact on the cost of motor insurance premiums. Too many claims are still being brought inappropriately, often because people are encouraged and pressured to do so by unscrupulous lawyers or CMCs.

On 2 December 2014, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the then Justice Secretary jointly announced a new insurance fraud taskforce. The taskforce will make recommendations to reduce all types of insurance fraud, to lower costs and to protect the interests of consumers. The Government are committed to tackling the perception that insurance fraud is a victimless crime. It is vital that people understand that making a fraudulent claim is not a legitimate way to make money. The taskforce is currently considering its recommendations, which the Government will consider carefully with a view to taking firm action.

My hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln mentioned the practice of “cash for crash”. The insurance fraud enforcement department is a City of London Police unit set up to tackle insurance fraud nationally. The £3 million annual cost of the unit is funded by ABI members through an industry-led compulsory levy. The unit is leading the fight against “cash for crash” gangs, and has caught and prosecuted many perpetrators of that distasteful scam over the past three years. It will continue in that work.

The Government have also been serious in our commitment to driving out bad practices by claims management companies, as is clearly demonstrated by the recent package of reforms to protect consumers who use the services of a CMC or who are subjected to its marketing practices. The reforms will also help organisations that are on the receiving end of high volumes of calls or fraudulent or unsubstantiated claims. The measures are transforming how the MOJ’s claims management regulation unit does its job. Members will be interested to hear that in the last year, 93 CMCs were investigated, 105 CMCs had their licences removed, 296 were issued warnings and 454 audits were conducted. Tackling fraud and unauthorised activity in the claims management industry has been, and will remain, a key priority for this Government.

The CMR unit works closely in partnership with both industry fraud bodies and the police to identify and deal with CMCs engaged in insurance fraud. That work has been instrumental in the successful prosecution of criminal organisations. My hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln rightly identified nuisance calls as a well known route for spurious claims farming. The CMR unit makes sure that CMCs offering claims services do so legally. That is why we introduced tough new rules in October last year to put in place a stronger requirement to make sure claims are properly substantiated before being pursued.

We also strengthened the CMR unit’s enforcement tools in December last year with a new power to impose fines on CMCs. So far, three companies have been fined

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more than £800,000 for unlawful unsolicited marketing and coercing clients into signing contracts before taking unauthorised payments. That sends the powerful message to unscrupulous fraudsters that the Government take this issue seriously and will take firm action against them.

The claims industry is a fast-moving market. Practices continue to evolve, and the Government will monitor the market and respond with further reforms, as necessary, to provide better protection for consumers and the public. The Government are also looking to build on the work of the CMR unit by undertaking a fundamental review to consider what powers and resources are required for a tougher CMC regulatory regime. The review is due to be completed in early 2016.

I will now answer the very useful six points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South, as some of them will be included in that review. He talked about banning of outbound calling and the use of personal injury claims data gathered from those calls. We need to strike a balance between ensuring that consumers are adequately protected and ensuring that a direct marketing industry can continue, as—although this was not necessarily the case in his experience—it is a legitimate activity when done properly. We need to focus on the companies that are breaking the rules rather than penalise legitimate businesses, and to make sure that companies comply with the regulations. We have made it easier for the Financial Conduct Authority to take action against some of those companies, but we will continue to look at that, particularly in the light of what he has outlined today.

Chris Philp: I understand that the Government have taken action to regulate outbound calls more carefully. My fear is that that regulation unfortunately has not had the intended effect and that cases like mine are continuing to occur. I suggested an outright ban because I feel it is the only way that we will be able to stamp out a terrible practice that I myself directly experienced.

Caroline Dinenage: My hon. Friend is very persuasive, and I will definitely ensure his thoughts are passed on when the review is conducted.

My hon. Friend talked about criminal pursuit of anyone making fraudulent claims. That measure was introduced earlier this year in the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015, which requires the court to dismiss in its entirety any claim where the claimant has been fundamentally dishonest. That means dishonest claimants can now no longer receive a payout if they have been fundamentally dishonest, even if a small part of their claim is in fact genuine. Insurers then have the option of pursuing a criminal prosecution for fraud.

My hon. Friend said medical advice should be taken within a week of an accident. In 2004, the Government considered including such changes to the civil procedure rules to ensure that medical examinations and reports were completed before a claim was produced. We have introduced the rules I have spoken about to discourage such behaviour, but we will keep the matter under review and continue to work with key stakeholders. We need to look at how we can tackle the issue effectively.

My hon. Friend asked whether there should be an objective evidence base. The Government remain concerned about the number of claims made and have done much

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in that area, but we accept that more can be done. We are open to any suggestions put forward by interested stakeholders and will consider all the points he has raised.

Finally, my hon. Friend talked about the 12-month claim limit and the no win, no fee limit of £6,000. We understand that both those issues will be considered by the insurance fraud taskforce, which will be reporting shortly. We look forward to seeing its recommendations and will respond accordingly.

Andy Slaughter: The Minister talked about a £6,000 limit. If she is talking about the possible £5,000 limit for small claims in PI cases, the Government have already looked at that two or three times. They have had very strong advice, including from the Transport Committee, that that is not the way to go. Is she saying that that matter is going to be revived?

Caroline Dinenage: As I say, the taskforce has been set up to look at all the issues, and I believe it may be considering that limit, but I will write to the hon. Gentleman with clarification if that is not correct.

The Chancellor announced proposals in the July Budget to introduce a cap on the charges that CMCs can apply to consumers. We are looking in particular at restricting bulk PPI claims to more proportionate levels and will consult on how that will work in practice later this year. A cap on charges will, we believe, help to reduce incentives for CMCs to collect marketing leads, resulting in a reduction in the number of speculative calls made.

I would like to draw Members’ attention briefly to other measures taken by the Government to tackle the issue of nuisance calls. In March 2014, the Government launched an action plan to tackle the problem, asking the consumer organisation Which? to lead a taskforce on consent and lead generation in the direct marketing industry. The taskforce made a number of recommendations, including giving the Information Commissioner’s Office powers to hold to account senior executives who fail to comply with the rules on marketing. The Government are currently considering those recommendations.

The Government have made it clear that it must be easier for the ICO to take action. The ICO no longer has to prove substantial damage or substantial distress caused by a company before action can be taken. Since 2011, it has had the power to issue penalty notices of up to £500,000, and in September 2015 it issued a penalty

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of £200,000 against a company that made more than 6 million automated calls to consumers—the highest penalty ever issued for nuisance calls. The ICO has also issued a penalty of £75,000 against an organisation that claimed to offer a nuisance call blocking service but was instead making unsolicited live marketing calls to members of the public—the mind boggles. The ICO continues to take its enforcement responsibilities seriously and has 66 cases currently under investigation.

The Government are also exploring options to provide call-blocking devices to vulnerable customers, and we will consult shortly on legislation to require all direct marketing callers to identify themselves. That will enable consumers to determine who is calling and to report unwanted calls to the regulator. I ought to make it clear that the Government have not ruled out further reform to this market.

Karl McCartney: Before my hon. Friend the Minister finishes her remarks, may I say that I welcome the courteous and informative comments she and everyone else who has taken part in the debate have made, including even my hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick)? He does not to get to say anything in his role as Parliamentary Private Secretary, but it was good to see him here, providing very useful information.

The Minister mentioned that some of these companies are fined. Unfortunately, the directors behind the companies often have what are known as “phoenix companies” waiting in the wings. The Government need to take direct action on the individuals who are at fault for carrying out these pernicious acts with regard to cold calling. I make that plea as a final comment in this debate.

Caroline Dinenage: That is a valid point. These individuals need to be named and shamed for what they are and, indeed, what they are doing; my hon. Friend is absolutely right.

We have not ruled out further reforms to this market. I hope I have reassured hon. Members today that the Government take this subject very seriously. We remain committed to continuing the reform process to the benefit of all and we want to work with all stakeholders to achieve that.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered personal injury fraud.

3.56 pm

Sitting suspended.

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Electrical Shore Supplies (Nuclear-powered Submarines)

[Ms Karen Buck in the Chair]

4 pm

Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP): I beg to move,

That this House has considered restoration of electrical shore supplies to nuclear-powered submarines.

It is a pleasure to have this debate under your chairmanship, Ms Buck—and to have secured it, but I say that rather guardedly, because it was never my intention to bring this issue forward for debate in this place. My intention from the outset was simply to ask a series of questions of the Ministry of Defence on behalf of my constituents, who approached me with serious concerns about the changes to nuclear safety procedures at Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde at Faslane. It was not until the MOD replied, or perhaps I should say did not reply, to my questions that I felt the need to bring the matter to this Chamber.

Last month, as the constituency Member of Parliament for Argyll and Bute, which takes in Faslane and Coulport, I was approached by workers at Faslane who had learned of proposed changes to the long-standing work practices relating to the restoration of shore power to nuclear-powered submarines. They had already raised their concerns with their employer, Babcock, but with no success, and unable to glean what they considered to be an adequate response, they turned to me as their local MP, in the hope that I would be able to secure answers from the Ministry of Defence on their behalf.

I then tabled a series of very specific questions relating to the extension of the limit of restoration of electrical shore supplies to nuclear submarines at Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde from the existing 20 minutes up to a maximum of three hours. Rather than answering my questions, the Ministry simply grouped all my detailed and specific questions together and responded to them using a single standard response—a response that I believe hid behind national security, although my questions were specifically about health and safety. I believe that the Ministry of Defence, by dismissing those questions in that manner, has shown me and my constituents a great discourtesy. I am firmly of the opinion that safety at nuclear establishments, and the safety of nuclear materials, is not just a matter for the MOD or Babcock; it is of the most serious concern to my constituents who live beside Faslane, whose concerns cannot be dismissed in such a high-handed fashion.

For far too long, the Ministry of Defence has relied on the stock answer of “Move along; there is nothing to see here,” in the hope of avoiding scrutiny, accountability and transparency—and in many ways it has got away with it. That is unacceptable, and frankly it will not wash any more with me or my constituents, who refuse to be fobbed off with such an answer.

I will give a little background on what has been happening at Faslane, and on the situation that led my constituents to approach me with their concerns. As I understand it, in October 2014 Babcock entered into a contractual agreement with the Ministry of Defence to provide a range of support services at Faslane and Coulport for a period of five years. Part of that arrangement

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called for a reduction in costs totalling £77.5 million over the lifetime of that contract. No department, including the nuclear operations department, was to be exempt from the cuts.

Prior to that agreement and the swingeing cuts of £77.5 million being announced, a working group comprising management and the trade unions was established to study shift patterns in the nuclear operations department. That working group, I am led to believe, identified a number of different shift options that were to be taken to Babcock management, and then presented to the workforce affected by the proposed changes for their consideration. It appears that the plans to negotiate shift patterns have been shelved, and that Babcock is instead pressing ahead with a radical and unilateral plan of changes to the working patterns in the nuclear operations department. The trade unions understand that the proposed changes will allow Babcock to reduce shift patterns by more than two thirds—a measure that will save around £4.5 million in staff wages, thereby contributing significantly to the £77.5 million of savings demanded in the new contract.

However, the new changes to shift patterns are not, in and of themselves, the problem. The major concern is that in order to facilitate the new shift patterns, Babcock will need to relax the long-standing safety principle of 20-minute restoration of electrical supplies to nuclear vessels alongside the jetties, extending that 20-minute period to a maximum of three hours. I should point out that the 20-minute restoration limit and the current manning levels for out-of-hours cover have been in place for decades; minimal changes have taken place in that time. Every time the 20-minute restoration period has been challenged in the past, it has been vigorously defended and change has been rejected. As I understand it, regular 20-minute training sessions and programmes are still carried out to prove that the 20-minute restoration can be accomplished by the nuclear operations department with existing staff levels.

There can be no doubt that the workers at Faslane are loyal and hard-working. They do a vital job and are not prone to alarmist talk, or flagging up problems when there are not genuine concerns. Their paramount concern and the overriding priority for them is safety: safety of the vessels, the base and, by extension, the entire community in the Helensburgh and Lomond area. When they, with their decades of experience in these matters, feel so marginalised that they are forced to approach their MP for help, we know that they have genuine concerns and serious worries. That is why, when they approached me a few weeks ago, I was only too happy to listen to their concerns and to seek answers from the Ministry of Defence.

I tabled a series of detailed questions that I believe focused on health and safety and on how the decision to extend the 20-minute limit to a maximum of three hours was reached. Unfortunately, my questions were grouped and summarily dismissed by the Ministry of Defence in a single, stock, off-the-shelf answer, which basically said, “We look after security and safety. There is nothing else you need to know; telling you anything further would prejudice the capability, effectiveness and security of our armed forces.” Does the Minister really think that that is an acceptable answer to hard-working, loyal employees, who have sought an answer from their employers to serious questions?

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Questions were asked about: health and safety; why important changes to long-established safety routines are being proposed; who is driving the changes; the money that will be saved by implementing the changes; what studies have been made of the safety implications of the changes; and whether an independent nuclear safety assessment has been carried out. Can they really be dismissed with a reference to national security and the fear of undermining our armed forces? If that is the case, the Ministry of Defence is saying that absolutely nothing that goes on behind the gates of Faslane is open to scrutiny, or is in any way transparent—that it is, in fact, accountable to no one.

I remind the Minister that the MOD and Health and Safety Executive agreement states, on page 2, that the Ministry of Defence is

“a Crown body accountable to Parliament for Defence, including the activities of the Armed Forces.”

There has to be accountability and transparency. We recognise the importance of national security, but I believe that this issue has gone far beyond that. Had I been daft enough to ask for the position of the nuclear submarine fleet when it was out on patrol or for details of military training exercises, I could and should have been told by the Ministry of Defence that it would not answer such a question on the grounds that the information was likely to prejudice the capability, effectiveness or security of the armed forces. However, the questions I asked were about health and safety, not national security. For the Ministry to hide behind national security, and to claim that responding to my questions and the concerns of employees at Faslane would undermine the armed forces, is absurd and a public relations blunder of epic proportions.

The prevalent attitude that we have seen so often is, “There is nothing to see, so move on.” That cannot continue, because it simply breeds mistrust and suspicion. If nothing that goes on at Faslane is open to scrutiny, and if nothing is transparent, every denial from the Ministry of Defence will be accepted less and less by those on the civilian side of the fence.

On day one of my parliamentary career a few months ago, I raised the case of Able Seaman William McNeilly and his catalogue of alleged safety breaches aboard nuclear submarines and at Faslane. Within 48 hours, every one of those allegations had been dismissed as having absolutely no substance, and again we were advised, “There is nothing to see here, so move on.” This is history repeating itself.

There are plenty of other examples; a quick trawl through the parliamentary records reveals that on 28 October, my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Steven Paterson) asked

“what arrangements are in place to monitor Babcock’s performance and safety record”.

The response referred to “appropriate measures”. On 8 September, my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Owen Thompson) asked

“what notice is given to emergency services in advance of visits by nuclear convoys”.

The response was:

“Police forces may advise fire and rescue services…I am withholding specific information on the period of notice given to the emergency services as its disclosure would”—

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this is classic—

“prejudice the capability, effectiveness and security of the Armed Forces.”

A question was asked in the House of Lords in June about what assessment the Ministry of Defence had made of the UK’s nuclear deterrent and its vulnerability to espionage, as we have no maritime patrol aircraft. The reply was that the Government continually conduct assessments but are not prepared to comment further.

The Ministry of Defence is acting like the boy who cried wolf in reverse. The situation is ridiculous, so I hope that the Minister will today end the policy of saying nothing, and recognise that the workforce at Faslane have genuine concerns. They are concerned about their future jobs, and about the safety of the vessels they are charged to look after. Will he reply, either today or in a full written answer, to the questions I submitted two weeks ago asking what discussions his Department has had with Babcock on the proposal to extend the limit of electrical shore supplies to nuclear submarines at Faslane? Will he also tell me whether his Department instructed Babcock to extend that time, or was that a customer-driven request—that is, did the Ministry of Defence ask for that, or did the idea emanate from Babcock?

4.14 pm

Sitting suspended for a Division in the House.

4.24 pm

On resuming—

Brendan O’Hara: Will the Minister tell me why, after decades of military, industrial and political consensus on the 20-minute limit, it is now felt necessary to make this change? Has his Department made an assessment of the financial saving accruing to Babcock? What analysis has he undertaken to ensure that the change is science-driven, not cost-driven? Can he enlighten me on what the Astute-class vessels’ procedures are, in terms of the 20-minute shutdown? Finally, will he tell me whether an independent nuclear safety assessment has been carried out? If so, what did the report say?

Let me be clear that this is not an old courtroom trick of asking questions to which one already knows the answers. These are genuine questions, and I am seeking helpful answers. As I said, I believe that nothing that I have said or asked is a threat to national security or could undermine our armed forces.

If the people of Helensburgh and Lomond and the workers at the base are to have faith in this facility, we have to be able to believe that those in charge will always make safety and security their top priority, and any suspicion that corners are being cut to save money has to be thoroughly investigated, but how can we have confidence when every single concern raised and brought to the attention of the authorities is met with the same standard response of “Move along; there is nothing to see here”? Confidence is further undermined when the concerns of a loyal and dedicated workforce are similarly dismissed.

I ask the Minister to seize this opportunity to show that transparency, accountability and appropriate public scrutiny are not alien concepts, and to restore the confidence of both employees at the base and my constituents that decisions are being taken in the correct manner and for the right reasons.

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4.26 pm

The Minister for Defence Procurement (Mr Philip Dunne): Thank you for chairing these proceedings, Ms Buck. I congratulate the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara) on securing the debate, and I thank him for giving me an opportunity to address this issue, which I agree is important. It is appropriate that we have an opportunity to discuss it in the House.

I appreciate that the safety of nuclear-powered submarines has been and continues to be a subject of interest not just in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency in the immediate proximity of our submarine base, but to everyone in the United Kingdom. The Vanguard-class strategic ballistic missile submarines, along with the majority of the Royal Navy’s attack submarines, are based at Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde, in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, and the whole operating Royal Navy submarine fleet will be based there by 2020. Clyde is one of the largest employment sites in Scotland, with about 6,800 military and civilian jobs, which will increase to about 8,200 by 2022. I pay tribute to the hard-working people who man and maintain Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde to support the Royal Navy submarine fleet based there.

The hon. Gentleman expressed the concern that the workforce have about their jobs at the site. What I have just said reinforces the decisions taken under the previous Government. The primary threat to the jobs of those working at HMNB Clyde is from the proposals of the hon. Gentleman’s party and the Scottish Government, rather than from this Government and the work that we intend to place there. However, I listened carefully to his speech and will endeavour to address the points that he raised.

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that, despite his suspicions to the contrary—I know he knows this privately—there are certain aspects of the operation of submarine nuclear reactors that I cannot discuss owing to security considerations. That is not a fig leaf; it is real. I am sure that no hon. Members would wish the security of the fleet to be compromised. Having said that, I will provide as full a response as I am able to on the issues that he raised. Before I do so, I would like briefly to set in context the Government’s policy for the safe and secure operation of nuclear-powered submarines.

The protection and defence of the whole of the United Kingdom and our dependent territories and citizens is the primary responsibility of Government. In a world that is becoming more uncertain, as we have seen in the actions of a resurgent Russia, the Government are committed to maintaining a strong and capable fleet of attack and strategic ballistic missile submarines and the continuous at-sea nuclear deterrence that provides the ultimate guarantee of our national security. In speaking today of our submarine fleet, I would like to take the opportunity—I am sure that all hon. Members would echo this, whatever their personal views on the merits of the nuclear deterrent—to thank the crews of all our submarines, their families and the wider community for their continued dedication and commitment to delivering the mission.

I turn to the points raised by the hon. Gentleman. I want to make it absolutely clear that safety is our priority. Although operating a nuclear reactor in the submarine environment provides unique challenges

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compared with doing so in the civil sector, the rigorous safety measures that we adopt ensure that submarine reactors remain safe at all times. The safety of reactors is rigorously assessed at every stage of their life, from design and build to operation and disposal. Safety is independently regulated in accordance with the law and by our own Ministry of Defence independent nuclear regulator. Together, those regulators impose robust controls that are at least as stringent as those in the civil sector. We are also held to account by external regulators and, ultimately, here in Parliament.

In Scotland, radioactive substances are regulated by the Scottish Environment Protection Agency. A memorandum of understanding between the Ministry of Defence and the SEPA includes provisions that enable the agency to carry out its regulatory role effectively while ensuring that sensitive information is properly protected. Similar arrangements are in place with the Office for Nuclear Regulation.

I trust that what I have said will reassure hon. Members that our submarine nuclear reactor operations are subject to independent, impartial and robust regulation. Any suggestion to the contrary is, quite frankly, wrong. As I have said, I am constrained by security considerations in the details that I can discuss, but I can say that the Ministry of Defence regularly and routinely reviews the procedures regulating the operation and maintenance of submarine nuclear reactors. That process naturally includes consultation with industry partners and regulators, but no change can be implemented until it is proved to be safe and, where applicable, has been approved by the relevant regulatory authorities.

Regarding the hon. Gentleman’s specific concern, it may be helpful if I explain that submarine reactors have a diverse range of cooling systems, including a dedicated system that is not dependent on electrical supplies. As I have previously informed the House in answer to a question from the right hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson), there have been only four events in the past 20 years involving the loss of electrical power to a submarine reactor cooling system when in port. In all four events, there was no disruption to reactor cooling as a result of the loss of electrical supplies.

That is the measure of the safety of our submarine nuclear reactors. It is simply not the case that a disruption of the electrical shore supply to a submarine will inevitably and rapidly lead to the submarine’s reactor becoming unsafe. It is quite wrong, and indeed alarmist, to suggest otherwise. Any proposals to change reactor operating procedures must be seen in that context. The Ministry of Defence would never propose a change that could lead to a reduction in reactor safety. Were we to do so, any such change would simply not pass regulatory scrutiny.

What I have said may raise in the minds of some hon. Members the question of why submarines require a shore electrical supply and why, if the loss of that supply poses no immediate threat to reactor safety, its restoration is subject to strict regulatory control. That question is simply answered. Once the reactor has shut down, the submarine continues to require a supply of electricity to operate its internal systems, such as lighting to allow sailors to get around the submarine. Although those requirements can be met from other sources, in the longer term a shore supply is required. As I have

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said, however, reactor cooling can rely on a diverse range of systems, not all of which depend on electrical supplies.

I fully understand that nuclear-powered submarines are a contentious issue for some hon. Members, and that they are likely to remain so. I want to address the question asked by the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute about whether the proposed changes have been inspired by Babcock, and in particular by the savings required in the company. My answer to that is we have made no assessment, in the review of procedures, of the impact on Babcock. This is a Royal Navy-initiated activity with the MOD’s support. Proposed changes to shift patterns have nothing to do with why we are undertaking this exercise. That was one of his concerns, and I hope that I have set it to rest.

Brendan O'Hara: I genuinely thank the Minister for his answers, but can he understand my frustration that all my previous questions were grouped together and given one stock answer? Does he agree with me that the Ministry does itself no favours by doing that, because it leads to suspicion and conjecture? Would it not have been an awful lot better if the MOD had answered each of my questions on merit, in which case we would not have needed this debate?

Mr Dunne: I can understand why the hon. Gentleman might have been somewhat frustrated by the reply that he got. I have to say that it is not unusual for Departments—across a range of activities, not purely the MOD—to find themselves not always capable of delivering the kinds of answers that the Members who pose them might like to receive. Many of the questions

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that the hon. Gentleman asked got into topics that were covered by security concerns, which was why he received the answers that he did. I hope that during this debate, I have managed to allay some of his concerns.

In closing, I can only reiterate that the Ministry of Defence operates its submarine nuclear reactors with the highest regard for safety. As in the civil sector, appropriate and targeted assessments of operating processes and procedures are undertaken to ensure that our robust arrangements remain valid. The process involves not only the independent regulator but our industry partners and independent nuclear safety advisers, who play a significant role in ensuring that those processes and procedures are as robust as they need to be to ensure the safe operation of our submarine nuclear reactors. Only when a positive consensus of advice has been reached to the effect that reactor safety will not be compromised, and that there is a clear benefit, are changes to operating processes and procedures undertaken. As I have said, the process includes our independent regulator and, where necessary, external regulators.

The Royal Navy’s attack and strategic ballistic missile submarines are an essential capability for the defence of the whole United Kingdom, and I hope that what I have said goes some way towards reassuring hon. Members that our submarines are operated with the highest regard for the safety of their crews and the public. Through our nuclear-powered submarine programme and the independent nuclear deterrent that it supports, we ultimately guarantee our national security and the freedoms that we continue to enjoy in a democratic society.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered restoration of electrical shore supplies to nuclear-powered submarines.

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Deaths Abroad (Consular Assistance)

4.38 pm

Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP): I beg to move,

That this House has considered consular assistance for families of people who die abroad.

As the Minister is aware, the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs carried out an inquiry in 2013-14 into this very matter, and many of the people I will reference today contributed to that inquiry. The reason why I secured the debate is threefold. First, I want to look at what changes have been made and what assessment has been made of those changes. Secondly, I want to feed back the thoughts of those who called for the inquiry, some positive, some critical, but all, I suggest, constructive. Thirdly, I want to pay tribute to some brave and fearsome campaigners who have selflessly committed to fighting for better support, not for themselves but for people who find themselves in the dreadful position that I will describe.

I start by acknowledging that there are some people in this country who have had very recent experience of this: I refer to those caught up in the atrocities in Paris last Friday. The impact will have been felt not just by the victims and their families, but by the consular support staff at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. I do not envy them their task at a time when they may themselves be traumatised by events in the city in which they live and work.

I will set out why there was a call for the Foreign Affairs Committee to have this inquiry last year. What were the experiences of families whose loved ones died abroad that led to them putting their lives on hold and mounting campaigns to change the experience for others? Let us remember that it is hard enough when someone close to us dies in this country. For someone who is struggling to cope with their shock and grief, to have to find a way through the minefield of a country with which they are unfamiliar—perhaps they do not speak the language and the customs and laws are different to theirs—is an experience that I would not wish on anybody. Naturally, people in those circumstances will turn to their own country’s consular support services, but many have not found the support that they expected.

Support After Murder and Manslaughter Abroad is a charity that campaigns for improvements in Government policy, and provides telephone advice and peer support to people bereaved by homicide overseas. Eve Henderson is someone I do not know, but she represents SAMM Abroad and I believe she is here today. Other campaigners have urged me to pay tribute to her for her tireless campaigning since her husband was murdered overseas 17 years ago. I pay tribute to her strength and determination. I hope that, in some small way, people like me can take some of the burden from her shoulders.

In 2011, SAMM Abroad sent 150 families a questionnaire asking them to document their experience of dealing with the FCO, the police and coroners. Fifty families responded, and the vast majority of respondents were negative about the service provided by the FCO. When asked whether the FCO was helpful 56% said, “not at all”, 38% said, “not very”, and the remaining 6% said, “quite helpful”. No one said that the FCO was “very helpful” and, as Members can see, 94% felt that they had not got the help that they wanted.

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The evidence in the Foreign Affairs Committee report reflected similar findings. I recognise and applaud that Committee in the previous Parliament for doing much of the work required to ensure that the families of those who die abroad are treated justly and with dignity by officials. The inquiry spoke to one mother who found that most of the advice she was offered was of less use than the advice available on websites. Others spoke of calls going unreturned, wrong advice being given and, most disturbingly, being encouraged to have their loved one cremated abroad without being advised that that could mean that there would be no coroner’s report back in the UK.

I should say at this juncture that, until recently, Scots or those who lived in Scotland who died abroad were not afforded an inquiry. Thanks to the work of Death Abroad—You’re Not Alone, otherwise known as DAYNA, and Julie Love, who spearheads its campaigns and who I will say more of later, the Scottish Government have now made steady progress in improving the treatment of such families. The Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc. (Scotland) Bill proposes to bring in discretionary fatal accident inquiries for those who have died overseas and have been repatriated to Scotland. That is a welcome step forward and builds upon Lord Cullen’s review which reported in 2009.

Another welcome measure is the increased accountability for families. Where the Lord Advocate decides not to hold a fatal accident inquiry he or she—it may be a she in the future—will have to justify the reason for that in writing to the family on request. I say all this primarily to pay tribute to DAYNA, but also to highlight the fact that there are distinctive elements of the Scottish legal system that directly affect the families of those who have died overseas. That must be borne in mind by the FCO and in the new training it offers consular staff.

The most disturbing and compelling evidence was from people who, like the bereaved mother highlighted in the report, found that consular support staff showed callous disregard for what they were going through. In her words,

“I found them completely without empathy at a time in my life when I really needed them.”

Although the report found that there was sometimes an unreasonably high expectation of the support that the FCO could provide, nobody would argue that people could not expect some common decency—a human response to a human tragedy—and yet they were not getting it. That was not an isolated case, and I will give more examples later. Nobody expects consular staff to offer counselling services—they are not the Samaritans—but the dismissive attitude and cold responses many have experienced are just unacceptable. If any of my caseworkers were to treat constituents in the same way, they would not last very long in my employ. I notice that they are sitting here today, so I will quickly add that I have absolute confidence in every one of them before they stage a walkout.

That is a basic summary of why groups such as SAMM Abroad and DAYNA urged that this inquiry be conducted. I will return to some of this in more detail by examining the three reasons I have called for the debate, but first let me share the story of Julie Love, mother of Colin Love and founder of DAYNA. Julie lives in Glasgow. She is an ordinary woman who has been through an

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extraordinarily traumatic time and has done something extraordinary as a result. Let me read out some of her words:

“My son Colin Love drowned in the sea close to Margarita Island, Venezuela, whilst on a Caribbean cruise in January 2009. He was 23 years old. He was an excellent swimmer. The beach was recommended to him by the cruise company despite the water being notorious for riptides and undertow. There were no warning signs and no lifeguards…it was easy to make contact with the Foreign & Commonwealth Office in the UK. My first contact…was at approximately 2am on 30th January 2009, several hours after receiving news of Colin’s death from his friend. I spoke to a member of the Global Response Team who was very empathetic but unable to assist as the FCO had not yet received notification of the death. He told me he would leave a message with the South American desk to ensure I would be contacted as soon as the information was received the following morning. I never received that call. I contacted them at approx. 12 noon the following day. I had not slept. I’d just found out my son had died on the other side of the world and I was frantic. I spoke to a female at the desk who curtly responded, ‘We deal with thousands of Brits dying abroad every year. I don’t have a message to call you back’. I was appalled.”

I am certain that there is nobody here who would not be appalled by that. Julie continued:

“She reluctantly took my details and said she’d call back. I am still waiting on that call. After contacting the HQ of the cruise company in Miami I was able to ascertain the telephone number of the British Honorary Consul on Margarita Island and made direct contact by telephone. His spoken English was very poor but we were eventually able to communicate by email.”

Should it really be that hard? Should she really have had to go to all that trouble?

Julie Love says:

“As I have since discovered has been the experience of many families I was advised to have my son cremated, not to travel to Margarita Island, that the cremation could be arranged on the island and they’d return my son’s ashes. How appalling! What mother wants to be told that she cannot hold her child ever again, especially when it’s possible that she can? I was adamant my son was going to be repatriated to Scotland and that I would go to the island to bring him home. I was advised not to as it would delay his repatriation. Reluctantly I did not travel…and it still took 4 weeks for my son’s body to be repatriated. I was advised four different dates and had church services…booked only to have to re-arrange. I had family and friends travelling to Scotland from all over the world and some of them had to return home...and were unable to pay respects at my son’s funeral because of the date changes.”

Julie mentions other problems, a number of which she, I and all campaigners accept are not down to the FCO; they are down to other people. For example, Colin Love’s friend was told that he had to return to the liner because he was not a relative. The liner docked in Aruba the following day, and the friend travelled from Aruba to Miami, Miami to London, and London to Glasgow. He had very thoughtfully brought back Colin’s luggage. He was charged for excess baggage every step of the way. Julie said in her submission to the inquiry:

“So in answer to the questions—No, I was not offered accurate advice and certainly given no guidance. I feel that the FCO handled my case abhorrently and without sensitivity to my feelings or to my son’s dignity. I was later to find out that my son’s body remained on the beach (uncovered) for approx. 12 hours.”

She discovered that because a British newspaper printed a picture of it—again, something that none of us would ever want to associate ourselves with. I happen to know that Julie Love ran up a phone bill of more than £1,000 trying to resolve the issue—money that she just does not have—but there was no help available.

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I have three reasons for securing this debate. The first, of course, is to ask what changes have been made and what assessment has been made of those changes. I welcome the progress the FCO has made and the undertakings it gave in response to the Foreign Affairs Committee’s report, which include a recognition that the manner in which families were dealt with did, in some cases, fall far below the level of service that British citizens should have been able to expect. One response from the Government was to provide training for consular support staff in dealing with non-suspicious deaths. After the murders on the Tunisian beach in July this year, the Foreign Secretary said that training would be given to all consular advice staff to improve sensitivity and effectiveness in casework. I am keen to hear an update on that training and a timetable for ensuring that everyone has received it—I assume that not everyone has yet received the training. When can we expect the training’s effectiveness to be reviewed?

Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind): I am reluctant to intervene on the hon. Lady, but I am deeply touched by what she has put on record today. As the Member representing a young honeymooning couple who died in a terrible drowning accident six days after their marriage—they died on 23 October—my experience of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been brilliant. The global response team acted during the night, and the sensitivity that it showed to both families was enormously courteous and helpful in tragic circumstances.

Anne McLaughlin: I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I was coming on to this, but I will say it now. There may be consular support staff listening to this debate who feel quite hurt by what I am saying, but obviously I am not referring to those who deal with such situations properly. I will give more evidence for why I know that Julie Love’s experience is not a one-off and why it is so important that we follow this up, but the hon. Lady is right: we hear about the terrible experiences. We have to accept that the majority of experiences may well be good, but I have not heard much about them.

Following the work of the Foreign Affairs Committee and the FCO’s response, one area that is still of concern to families is deaths that are not identified as murder or manslaughter but are classed as suspicious. In some cases, the coroners have returned the equivalent of open verdicts; in others, the family suspect foul play. Will the Minister comment on the FCO’s role in supporting family campaigns for justice, especially where the local inquiry is ineffective or where there are problems with the coroner’s report? I appreciate that the FCO handles all cases individually, but there will inevitably be cases where there has been malpractice in the local investigations. When do the British Government step in to support British families in such cases? When the access to justice unit was set up, it was going to review the policy on suspicious deaths and consider whether it could offer similar levels of support in some instances where there has been a suspicious death. I hope the Minister can update us on that. Has the review taken place? If so, when will we get the details? If not, what is the timetable? What support is being offered to those families?

We can agree that all cases will be different, but it would be beneficial if the system was structured so that all families know what support they can expect as a minimum. Paragraph 15 of the Government’s response

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to the Foreign Affairs Committee’s report stated that they would begin gathering evidence on the handling of deaths on an ongoing basis from May 2015; the evidence would be collected by independent research partners from a representative selection of all FCO customers and published in the annual report. It would be useful to know whether anything has been gleaned from that research so far.

The second reason for securing this debate is to feed back the thoughts of some of those who called for the inquiry. As I said, some are positive and some not so positive, but all seek to be constructive. SAMM Abroad says that, over the past three years, the FCO has improved the support it provides to bereaved families—all of us here will welcome that—but although the initiatives are welcome, families are still reporting significant issues with the consistency of the service provided. SAMM Abroad contends that the current practice of putting families in contact with desk officers is failing. Although there are notable exceptions, as we have heard, they are, in SAMM Abroad’s view, precisely that: exceptions. Desk officers lack proper training in dealing with traumatised families, which can lead to families feeling greater trauma after their contact with the FCO. I know that training has been suggested and agreed to, but we have yet to hear what stage it is at. There are frequent complaints that desk officers fail to keep families informed of developments or mishandle important information.

SAMM Abroad says that another significant shortcoming of using desk officers is that they move frequently and rarely stay the duration of an investigation. Most cases will not come to trial within two years, and many take longer, which means that families continually have to retell their story to new colleagues, which causes frustration and distress and can lead to poor case management. Although SAMM Abroad accepts that it is unrealistic to expect desk officers to remain in post for extended periods, their continual movement has another significant impact: a loss of institutional expertise. Frequent movement not only disrupts contact with families but disrupts relationships with local organisations and services that could provide support to families.

SAMM Abroad has come up with an excellent suggestion that I would apply across the board for the families of anyone who dies abroad, not just for the families of those who are murdered, although obviously such families face additional difficulties. SAMM Abroad suggests a small, centralised unit within the FCO with specially trained staff to act as the principal point of contact for families. The unit would be responsible for dealing with the desk officers and extracting information for the families. That would have a number of advantages: families would not be not upset or traumatised by having to retell their story after desk officers move; it would allow liaison with other agencies to be more effective, because staff would have immediate access to case files and other information; and the development of FCO policy could become more effective, as the unit would be able to observe recurrent issues and spot failings more immediately. If the Minister cannot commit to the establishment of such a unit today, and I suspect that he cannot, will he commit to considering it in more detail and perhaps meeting me and other campaigners, or at the very least accepting information from us on this suggestion? I think the creation of such a unit is an excellent suggestion that could resolve a lot of problems.

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Suspicious deaths are the second issue that campaigners feel still has not been fully addressed. The report talks of families whose loved ones were murdered, but for those whose loved ones suffered a suspicious death, the agony seems to be never-ending. Take the case of the man who was murdered almost seven years ago: the trial of those who murdered him ended 18 months ago, and still the family is unable to have a funeral for him. I recently met someone—I am not naming anyone because I have not asked if I can do so—whose mother died in France more than two years ago, and she is still waiting to bury her. Any right-thinking person will agree that those situations are horrific. There are various stages of grief, but these families are stuck at the start of that process because they cannot lay their loved ones to rest. How can they be expected to grieve, or to continue any semblance of a normal life?

I am sure the Minister is aware of and is as horrified as I am by the cases where bodies have been returned minus internal organs. It is like something out of a horror film, and the families must play out that horror film in their head day in, day out, night after night. We must surely be able to intervene to put a stop to all that and to find a way to let those families move on. There are also questions about the appeal processes after a conviction and the way in which families are advised when the perpetrator of a crime committed against their loved one is due to be, or is, released from prison.

As the Minister will know, one of the big overarching criticisms in the report was the lack of consistency. Julie Love has asked me to raise something that exemplifies what was meant by that finding, and it relates to the constituents of the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) who died so tragically in October.

As I have said, Julie’s son, Colin, died while swimming. The beach he was on is noted for its dangerous riptides, but nobody—neither the travel company nor the FCO advice—told him about those riptides. He had thoroughly researched where he was going. Julie Love suggested to the inquiry—it was documented in the report and she understood that this suggestion was being taken up—that the FCO website’s travel advice should include information about anywhere with particularly unpredictable or potentially dangerous waters. I appreciate that the FCO is working with travel companies to improve the information provided—that is good; that is progress—but Julie’s clear understanding was that the FCO would also provide this information. People are more likely to take seriously what their Government tell them than what a travel company tells them, so this is important.

The advice now appears on the information about Venezuela, where Colin died. It also appears on the Dubai page, but apparently it only appeared there after a British citizen died in a swimming accident similar to the one that killed Colin. Moreover, when the young honeymooning couple from Northern Ireland died so tragically earlier this year while swimming in South Africa, Julie was told that it was not the FCO’s practice to give that kind of advice. Well, either the FCO gives that advice or it does not give it, but it must be consistent. People will understand that Julie was particularly disturbed by this incident, and of course anyone’s heart will go out to the honeymooning couple and their families, but in her communications with the FCO Julie had specifically noted the beaches of South Africa as danger spots. Who knows if the couple would have read such advice if

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it had been provided, and who knows if they would have taken note of it? However, surely the point is that it is our duty to do all we can to alert people and then allow them to make their own decisions, and that cannot be done only after an event. Provision must be consistent. I would be really grateful to the Minister if he could commit to ensuring that that happens. It is quite important that it does happen and, as I said, I think it has already been agreed that it would happen.

Regarding the overarching problem of how consular staff deal with grieving families, people listening to this debate may believe that because the families are grieving everything becomes magnified and perhaps things are not quite as bad as they say, but I can tell the Minister that I know what these families say is correct. Of course, as I have already said, there will be great advisers out there, who put their heart and soul into supporting people, and I want them to know that I am not talking to them. However, I know that the things that I am talking about do happen, and that when they happen it is crushing. I know, because a few years ago my brother Stephen died very suddenly in a foreign country. I will not go into detail, because I am certain beyond doubt that my family do not want to read about it in the newspapers again; it is too raw and it is too personal. Nevertheless, I feel that I have to tell the Minister that I was one of those family members and I experienced exactly what all of those other families describe. I have heard them describe the experience of dealing with the FCO as being like suffering a bereavement all over again, and it is true. It is hard to hear, it is hard to say, but it is true.

I was stunned to have an adviser from the consular support team shout down the phone at me. There was no reason for it; I was too weak and too confused to have given him any reason to shout at me. He was clearly just having a bad day, but the lack of compassion astounded me. In addition, I was given advice that I later regretted taking: “Have him cremated.” I did. The “support” that I got was a list of preferred cremation providers, all of whom wanted four times as much money as I ended up paying. The FCO staff did not care that we could not afford their expensive recommendations; it was of no consequence to them that we did not speak the language and they did. Worst of all, they did not do anything to help us to get the answers that we were so desperately seeking. Had it not been for a friend of mine who happened to live in that city, I do not know how we would have got through the experience. If it happened now, we would have the comfort of a fatal accident inquiry, but then we were more or less dismissed as if we did not matter—as if he did not matter.

When I speak of the distress that these families feel, my family have felt it too. When I speak of the coldness with which they are treated, I was cold-shouldered too. As others have said, when I really needed someone to have a bit of compassion, there was not an ounce of it. That is why I know what strength it must take for someone to put aside their grief and to get out there and fight for others. I really pay tribute to those who have done that—Eve Henderson and many more people who I do not have permission to name, but they know who they are. Julie Love has been a tireless advocate for the families.

Lady Hermon: Would the hon. Lady like me to intervene?

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Anne McLaughlin: Yes, please.

Lady Hermon: It is very kind of the hon. Lady to allow me to intervene and I am very grateful to her for very kindly drawing the House’s attention, and the Minister’s attention, to the dreadful experience of the young honeymooning couple. They were in their mid-20s; they were inseparable in life; and tragically they ended up being inseparable in death as well. However, I repeat that the FCO and the consular staff were extraordinarily kind and compassionate to their families.

I do not want to delay the hon. Lady from concluding her contribution, which is deeply moving.

Anne McLaughlin: I very much thank the hon. Lady. I will try to continue.

I will end by saying that Julie Love has been a tireless advocate for the families of British citizens who have died abroad. People such as Julie and Eve do this work not for themselves—it is too late for them—but for others so that their grief is not compounded. Julie and Eve’s organisations support individuals and while there is always a role for the third sector to provide additional, supplementary or specialist support, it is clear that sometimes such organisations have to step into a gap left by the varying level of support offered by consular services.

The families and campaign groups have many more questions that they would like me to ask, but I think I should stop now and allow others to speak. I simply ask, finally, that the Minister agrees to receive information from us, and perhaps at a later stage to meet with us to discuss how we can ensure that we meet people’s needs and—where the FCO cannot do that—how we ensure that there is support for the organisations that can. After all, Minister, there is nobody better placed to tell you what was missing, what is still missing and what is really needed when someone you love dies overseas than my family, and people such as Eve Henderson and Julie Love, the mother of Colin Love.

Ms Karen Buck (in the Chair): For the guidance of Members who wish to speak, I will point out that this debate has to finish at 5.40 pm and I intend to call the Front-Bench spokespersons at 5.20 pm, so we have 15 minutes. I hope that can be a guide for people wishing to make a contribution to the debate.

5.6 pm

Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): I begin by paying tribute to the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin). It is very rare in this House that we hear speeches that come from the heart and that can move people to tears, but listening to her speak about her experiences is one of those occasions. I thank her for sharing her experiences, and those of all the families who have sadly lost someone while they were abroad. The passion that she has brought to this debate underlines how important this issue is, which is why we are discussing it today.

Six months ago, this issue was brought home to me and to the close-knit community of Blackwood. An evil attack on innocent holidaymakers in Tunisia rocked the world and our country. One of our own was ripped away from her friends and family. I remember hearing

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the news and thinking, “This is the type of thing that happens to other people, and not to somebody from a close-knit south Wales valleys community.”

Trudy Jones devoted her life to looking after other people. Those who knew her described her as an angel, and she always put others before herself. She worked tirelessly for her family, friends and community. In the face of this act of evil, which has been brought back to the world’s focus by the events of the last few days in France, I am proud to say that our community—my community—in Blackwood came together in support and to offer condolences.

Nothing can ever bring back a lost loved one, but it is the duty of Government to provide any and all support when someone is lost, especially when their life is taken away in a brutal attack in another country. Families of victims rightly expect consular services to be there for them, and to act in a timely, understanding and competent manner. I will not speak about particular cases, as that would be unfair to the families involved. However, it is of great concern to me that, following the horrific attack in Tunisia, both those who survived and the families of those who did not survive reported significant failings in the initial Foreign Office response. One person even described Foreign Office staff as being both “rude and ignorant”.

Sadly, we saw consular staff in Tunisia react dismissively to worried family members who were attempting to find out information. I make it clear to the Minister that this evidence is anecdotal, but it is from families who have suffered a tragic loss. It appeared to those families that, far from helping them in any way possible, all too often FCO staff acted as though they did not want to talk to them when they were going through the most horrific of times.

I can only compare that response to the response from the Belgian embassy. The Belgian embassy staff arrived promptly after the attack; they wore jackets bearing the national flag; and they checked on the welfare of their nationals, briefed them on evacuation plans, and acted quickly to establish the identities of those who had lost their life. It took me a couple of hours to confirm through the FCO—by ringing it—that I had lost a constituent. In the end, it was a news organisation that confirmed the news to me as Trudy’s Member of Parliament. I am sure that UK consular staff often perform their duties well and effectively, but on this occasion they were found wanting.

I urge the Minister to instigate a review of what happened on that terrible day. Beyond the failings regarding the attack, many people were left in limbo, not knowing whether their loved ones were safe and fearing the worst. Questions must be asked about the travel advice. Why was it not changed following the suicide bombing in Sousse, which took place months before the horrific attack earlier this year? Tour operators continued to sell and publicise tickets to Sousse, despite a demonstrable increase in the threat of terrorism. Tour operators have a duty to make travellers aware of potential problems if they are selling tickets to such destinations. Most people rightly assume that places are safe if tour operators are promoting them.

However, it is not only tour operators that have a duty to ensure that people are informed. Decisions by private companies are naturally based on Government advice. Indeed, after the murder of innocent holidaymakers

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in Tunisia, the tour operator Thomson said that at all times it followed Foreign Office travel advice, which did not prohibit travel to Tunisia. I urge the Minister again to look at why advice was not changed, and to ensure that when there is a threat to the lives of British citizens, that is reflected in the activities of tour operators.

I began my speech by mentioning the evil murder of my constituent Trudy Jones. I end by once again stating that the entire community of Blackwood is still here for her family. I am here for her family. I watched with sadness the video her family produced in memory of her amazing life. Trudy truly was an inspiring individual. Nothing can ever bring her back, but we can ensure that if another of our citizens is ever taken away, the FCO and consular services provide the right support, with competency, efficiency and, most of all, compassion. Like the hon. Member for Glasgow North East, I pay tribute to all those who have campaigned to ensure that those who have lost loved ones abroad are treated with respect and, above all, dignity. I associate myself with her remarks about Julie Love.

5.11 pm

Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind): I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in this debate. As the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) will know, my experience of Foreign Office staff, particularly its consular staff, has been very positive, and I wanted to put that on the record. I am grateful to her for securing the debate and giving us all an opportunity to speak of our experiences.

On 23 October this year, two young constituents, John and Lynette Rodgers of Holywood in County Down, were on their honeymoon in South Africa. They had got married at First Holywood Presbyterian church just six days earlier. They were happy and they were in love. As I said in my intervention, they were inseparable in life. They were much loved by their families. Lynette’s mother, Eva Reilly, had been widowed some years ago. She has one son, Graham, but Lynette was her only daughter. Likewise, John Rodgers was the only son of his family, who come from Ballygowan. His mother and father, Billy and Johann, were deeply distressed by his tragic, untimely death in South Africa, as were John’s sisters, Gwen and Kathryn.

When the news came through late on the Friday evening, I went straight to the home of Eva Reilly. The Police Service of Northern Ireland had already visited to break the terrible, tragic news of the death of this young couple on honeymoon in South Africa. The global response team kept in touch with both families during that night, and the young lady on duty did not leave her desk at 9 o’clock, Saturday morning, before phoning both families to update them with the latest information about their loved ones.

The consular staff were absolutely outstanding, both in South Africa and here in London in the Foreign Office. I have nothing but the greatest admiration for the sensitivity with which they handled a tragedy for both families, the whole community of Holywood and the town of Ballygowan. The families were enormously dignified and courageous in the face of terrible tragedy, but their sorrow and grief was lessened by the updating by, and the sensitivity and intervention of, Foreign Office staff. The PSNI also appointed a single liaison officer for both families, which was an exceedingly good

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decision. The bodies of John and Lynette were brought home on the Friday following the accident. That was absolutely remarkable. I say again that that is full credit to the Foreign Office staff, who made the travel arrangements, liaised closely with the PSNI and with the families at all times, and kept the local MP informed.

At the joint funeral of those two young people, which took place in the church in which they were married, hymns were played that they had sung just a fortnight before at their wedding. I have attended far too many funerals in Northern Ireland, but I do not think I have ever seen printed on the back of an order of service a tribute of thanks to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the PSNI family liaison officer, mentioned by name. I thought that was a wonderful tribute. I have subsequently written to the Foreign Secretary and to consular staff to thank them personally for what they did to support and give great comfort to two families and a community at a time of real need, and I am full of admiration for that.

5.16 pm

Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It is a pleasure to speak on this poignant issue. I commend all three speakers on their personal contributions. They told compassionate, heartrending stories, and every one of them resonated—one in particular: that of my colleague and hon. Friend, the Member for North Down (Lady Hermon). Lynette was one of her constituents for most of, if not all, her life. John Rodgers was one of my constituents. He married Lynette and moved to my hon. Friend’s constituency, so these issues resonate with us. Unfortunately, similar incidents have occurred with my constituents. On two different occasions, single ladies died while on holiday. I honestly have to say that the response from consular staff has always been good. I could not say otherwise, because that would be unfair and untrue. I am, however, mindful of the debate so far, which has outlined where improvements can be made, and I know the Minister will respond to those points.

Like my hon. Friend, I visited the home of the Rodgers family. John Rodgers’ mum, dad and sisters asked me to convey their thanks to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the consular staff for all that they did. I did that in writing and I do that publicly today, so that it is recorded in Hansard, which is important.

I am conscious that you have indicated the timings we need to work to, Ms Buck; I will keep to them. I want to raise with the Minister the point that it is not possible to register a death with the British authorities in a number of states, including Ascension Island, Australia, Bermuda, Canada, the Cayman Islands, Christmas Island, the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, the Irish Republic, which is next to us, Nevis, New Zealand, St Helena, the Turks and Caicos Islands, the British Virgin Islands, and South Africa. While it may not have been possible to register the deaths with the British authorities, the consular staff came forward and worked compassionately and directly to ensure that it happened. The Minister’s staff are probably checking to make sure that list is correct. The way in which consular staff have kept in touch with families, particularly in the case of the death of John and Lynette, indicates that there is compassion and understanding. They went out of their way to ensure that things went in the right way.

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My final point is on the two ladies who passed away on holiday. Consular staff did their bit, but the tour operators did not always respond in the proper way to the tragic deaths. Will the Minister indicate how consular staff work with the tour operators who book people into hotels, because, in my experience, they sometimes fail?

Thank you, Ms Buck, for the chance to speak. I thank the hon. Member for Glasgow North East for showing us all what needs to be done. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

5.20 pm

Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Buck. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin), who is my own MP, on securing the debate. She has clearly taken an interest in the issue for many years, including when she was in the Scottish Parliament. She has a strong personal interest, and I echo the comments that have been made about her moving testimony. I extend my sympathies and those of the Scottish National party to the families of all the individuals we have heard about this afternoon. The debate is particularly timely given the shocking events in Paris last week. I want to put on record my own shock and sadness at those atrocities. My thoughts and prayers are with all those affected.

My hon. Friend helpfully laid out the background to the debate in considerable detail. Figures from the Scottish Government released in answer to our parliamentary question a few years ago suggest that the number of deaths of people from Scotland occurring overseas and registered with the relevant local consulate is relatively small—between 40 and 60 a year. I imagine the UK-wide figures are a similar proportion of the overall population. Nevertheless, each of those cases represents unique circumstances and undoubted sorrow and difficulty for those left behind. Providing comfort and support for the bereaved is surely one of the most basic of human instincts. Indeed, at Prayers in the Chamber on Monday, we heard the Beatitudes, which include the message:

“Blessed are those who mourn; for they shall be comforted.”

I have personal experience of the need for consular assistance. About 18 months ago a good friend of mine was very seriously—thankfully, not fatally—injured in an accident on holiday. I know how traumatic the family found that situation and how important consular assistance can be, especially when there are language issues or considerable and costly distances involved. I do not doubt the sincerity and human sympathy with which most consular staff will react when responding to inquiries and requests for support from bereaved family and friends. However, as we have heard, sadly there are cases in which the support does not live up to expectations, or somehow falls short of the duties and responsibilities of consulates.

Perhaps there is a question around the management of expectations. I have read the guidance from the FCO on support for British nationals abroad. It is a thorough document that makes it clear what consulates can and cannot—or perhaps will and will not— do to support UK citizens overseas in different circumstances. But perhaps there is still a job of work to be done in making that information more widely available and more widely known. It is available online; perhaps it is available in consulates. Can the Minister tell us whether it is available

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in airports, from travel agents or on holiday booking websites? Is it available as an app or an e-book? There are different ways of making such information available nowadays.

Perhaps there is an opportunity for the Government to keep under review the services they can offer in these situations. Again, I accept that to a certain extent the role of consulates is defined by international conventions, and that the UK Government must accept the rule of law and relevant customs in particular countries; and it is also true that the services provided are funded not directly by the taxpayer but through a levy on the cost of passports. Nevertheless, if there is a demand for or expectation of different kinds of support, some of which we have heard about—perhaps more assistance with repatriation, easier access to funds and so on—perhaps the Government should consider that. Perhaps the Minister will tell us, in the light of this debate, what consideration they will give to that.

We also accept that there is no substitute for travel insurance, but again, perhaps there is a case for better public communication and awareness of what travel insurance can and cannot provide. That is equally true of the European health insurance card. In particular, it does not provide for repatriation of either injured or deceased persons.

There are particular issues to consider when a death overseas is not the result of natural causes. I welcome the recent review that was referred to and the consideration the Government have given to the role of consular assistance in cases of murder or manslaughter. As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East said, it will be interesting to hear what progress is being made in taking that review and the recommendations forward.

In the case of a fatal accident, I welcome, as my hon. Friend did, the moves that the Scottish Government are taking on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc. (Scotland) Bill, which will allow for discretionary fatal accident inquiries into the deaths of Scots abroad where the body has been repatriated to Scotland. I pay tribute to the campaigners, especially Julie Love, who is a constituent of mine and has worked very hard on this alongside my colleague and constituent Bob Doris, who is a Member of the Scottish Parliament for Glasgow.

As we know from recent experiences, there are other circumstances to consider. Terrorism, pandemics and natural disasters can also lead to the deaths of citizens overseas, and it is right that those are dealt with on a case-by-case basis. I hope the Minister will assure us that the Scottish Government will be involved in such situations, particularly when Scottish residents are affected.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East once again on securing the debate, and I echo the questions that she has asked. The issues involved are sensitive and require a considered and humane response. I hope the Government will continue to engage constructively when particular situations arise or suggestions are made.

5.25 pm

Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Ms Buck. I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) on securing the debate and highlighting this important issue. She spoke so

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powerfully and so sadly from personal experience, and she highlighted the many families who have campaigned for some years. She made an excellent speech and made specific points with which I agree, including asking the Minister to consider in detail whether a central unit to assist families might be the best way forward.

Sadly, many Members will have had constituents who died abroad. We know it is an awful experience for all those affected. The heartbreak of losing a friend or relative is often compounded by the stress of repatriating a body and navigating a foreign legal system. As we know, and as the hon. Member for Glasgow North East and the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) mentioned, consular assistance was required this weekend after the atrocities in Paris. I know all our sympathies are with everyone affected, including our consular and locally employed staff who are having to deal with the aftermath of that awful terrorist attack.

Sadly, there is a growing trend of British citizens being caught up in terrorist attacks abroad, including, as has already been mentioned, the attacks in Sousse in Tunisia in June, where more than 30 British citizens were killed, including my own constituent, Claire Windass, who was murdered while on holiday with her husband. In that case, the family told me that the consular assistance they were given was of a very high standard.

I note what the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) said about the very sad case of John and Lynette and how the consular assistance and support that was given to the families in very distressing circumstances was outstanding. I also note what the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said about the positive experiences that he had had over the years. However, my hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) talked about the way in which families had been treated in the case of the Tunisian atrocity, so there is obviously a very mixed picture.

Lady Hermon: I am grateful to the hon. Lady and to everyone who has made a contribution. I am profoundly embarrassed by having to say that I have a commitment that means I have to leave the debate, but I did not want the hon. Lady to feel offended. I apologise to you, Ms Buck, and to the Minister and all colleagues for my leaving due to the pressure of a particular commitment that I simply cannot avoid attending. I apologise to the hon. Lady and thank her for offering sympathy to the families of the young honeymoon couple from my constituency who died. It is kind of her to do so.

Diana Johnson: I thank the hon. Lady for her comments and for her apologies for leaving.

I hope the Minister will be able to update the House on the work that the FCO is undertaking to ensure that embassies are prepared to deal with major incidents and terror attacks, because unfortunately we see more of them happening. As the number of staff employed at consulates is reduced, what is being done to be able to quickly increase capacity at times of acute need?

I want to raise a few issues arising from the Foreign Affairs Committee report. Like the hon. Member for Glasgow North East, I want to refer to recommendations that came out of that excellent report. I pay tribute to the members of the Committee and to everyone who was willing to give evidence. I read the very distressing

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accounts of what had happened to their loved ones and the difficulties that they experienced in accessing support from consular services.

The first issue raised by the Select Committee report that I want to emphasise is the need to ensure that the support offered to families is consistent. It is clear that although in a number of cases families and loved ones have received excellent support, many individuals have been let down. That appears to be partly because of the low minimum standards and inconsistent procedures for dealing with deaths abroad. I am glad that the Foreign Office has recognised that problem, and I welcome its commitment to increase the monitoring of feedback and use that to improve training. Will the Minister say a little more about what that actually means in practice?

The Select Committee raised particular concerns about the support offered to families who have suffered a bereavement due to murder or manslaughter. I agree with the Committee that the current minimum offer to such families is far short of what British citizens should expect to receive. I am glad that the FCO accepted that finding and I welcome the fact that the Government have conducted a review, but it sounds like that review is a work in progress. Numerous conclusions identify further work to be undertaken. For example, the review concludes:

“We are already reviewing training and development opportunities for staff”,

and goes on to say:

“We will ask the AJU to consider data protection rules and whether there may be ways of working more smartly within these”.

It also says:

“The AJU will consider how best to support relatives and friends beyond the immediate family”,

and continues:

“The AJU will explore what further measures can be taken at UK and foreign airports to reduce distress for families who are travelling.”

All those commitments and opportunities for review are welcome, but it would be good if the Minister could give us a final update on exactly what the outcomes are.

Ms Karen Buck (in the Chair): Order. I know that the hon. Lady took an intervention, but we are going to have to move on to hear from the Minister in a moment.

Diana Johnson: Finally, next week is the comprehensive spending review, in which there are likely to be further cuts to the FCO budget. Will the Minister say what plans are in place to deal with a reduction in the number of consular staff? How will that play out in the light of the problems I identified earlier in my speech relating to terrorist attacks and the number of British citizens who, unfortunately, are at risk when they travel?

5.31 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (James Duddridge): I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) on securing this debate. She gave a heartfelt and very brave speech. Had I suffered the same personal circumstance, I am not sure that I would have been able to be quite so eloquent in the delivery of a

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large number of points. I have only seven or eight minutes to respond, so I want to say at the outset that I would like to meet the hon. Lady outside this debate—not literally outside, but perhaps at the Foreign Office—to discuss some of the points she raised in much more detail. We could either include outside organisations from the start, or discuss how we can liaise even more effectively with those organisations.

The hon. Lady mentioned three themes, which I would like to touch on. She asked what has changed since the Foreign Affairs Committee report. I will give my thoughts on some of the individual cases, because it is important that we learn from examples of where things have gone wrong. It is equally important that we learn from examples of where things have gone right. The debate has been very balanced, although it is easier in all walks of life to hear more about what goes wrong than what goes right. I suspect that the general view among the public, from reading national papers and so on, is slightly skewed. The front page of the Daily Mail has never been “Fabulous consular support offered in”—insert name of country. If only it was thus.

I pay tribute to a number of organisations. I am sure I would leave some out, so I will not attempt a list, but I pay particular tribute to the work of Julie Love, who lost her son in 2009. She has done a remarkable job setting up Death Abroad—You’re Not Alone, which seeks to support families. I also pay tribute to SAMM Abroad, another organisation to which the hon. Lady referred. The death of a loved one is always distressing, but a family’s grief can be compounded by not only the circumstance of that death but what happens afterwards. The British Government want to be part of ameliorating a bad process, rather than being part of any problem.

The hon. Members for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and, particularly, for North Down (Lady Hermon) outlined some really moving examples of where consular staff have got it right. Although there are sadly a large number of deaths, quite often, by the nature of there being only one or two people in post, it might be the first time that an individual staff member involved has dealt with a death. Everyone has their own experiences and concerns, and it is an emotional event for them. To put into context the work that is done, to date this year consular staff have been involved in 3,039 cases around the world. There have been 83 new murder cases so far this year, and 238 murder cases are ongoing and active.

I would like to draw colleagues’ attention to a document called “Guide for bereaved families”. Normally when there is a bereavement overseas, the initial point of contact is with a member of the police force who is in attendance, although in very rare cases a phone call is made. The other possibility is that an individual is contacted by the media. Notwithstanding that, a guide is given that goes into a lot of detail. Perhaps I will take the liberty of circulating it to the Members who are present and asking for feedback. It might also be worth circulating it more widely—the hon. Member for Glasgow North East mentioned case workers in particular.

In the two or three minutes I have remaining, I will try to canter through as many of the issues that have been raised as I can as a precursor to meeting the hon. Lady. On new training, we have changed things already, but the totality of new training has not yet been rolled out. That is ongoing.

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The hon. Lady referred to a number of statistics from reports. The Foreign Office runs a survey, and from January to September 85% of people were satisfied with the level of service that they received. Nevertheless, I recognise that the data are likely to be skewed, in that those who report back to the Foreign Office are probably more likely to be happy, whereas I can imagine that those who report to support groups having looked first to the Foreign Office would be less likely to be satisfied. But to be frank, it is not acceptable for anyone to be unsatisfied, within reason.

Some really interesting ideas were mentioned relating to the use of desk officers. A specialist unit has been set up for cases of murder and manslaughter, so there will be the continuity that the hon. Lady sought. However, I gently suggest that there are advantages in using desk officers. They know the contacts in country, the language and the culture, which might not be the case with a centralised unit. I am happy to meet the hon. Lady to discuss and better understand the detail to see how that could be improved.

I do not have time to go into a lot of detail on travel advice, but I will review the disparities in the advice for South Africa. I am happy to discuss swimming conditions with the hon. Lady. The Foreign Office website discusses them in detail, but it is not always country-specific. In my experience of travel advice, more and more information can be added, but the risk is that people miss the bigger picture, such as in the case of advising, “Don’t travel to an entire area of the country because it is subject to terrorism.” So there is a case for not adding too much complexity, while also working more closely on travel advice.

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The hon. Lady has indicated that I can take all the time available so that I can cover as many issues as possible.

Anne McLaughlin indicated assent.

James Duddridge: A lot has been done in relation to Tunisia. The Prime Minister appointed the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), who suffered a loss when his brother was killed in the Bali bombings. He brought a lot of experience not only to how we assisted people in Tunisia but to how we followed up on that. We deployed experts and changed the travel advice as quickly as a possible, although there is a duty to be accurate as well as fast. We are looking at options for additional family support, and we still need to consider in detail a number of points in the Foreign Affairs Committee report.

Alas, there is not enough time for me to answer all the questions that have been asked, but I thank the hon. Member for Glasgow North East, who made a very brave and thoughtful speech. Good will come of her raising this matter in the House, and I look forward to working with her in more detail.

5.40 pm

Motion lapsed, and sitting adjourned without Question put (Standing Order No. 10(14)).