Kevin Foster: My hon. Friend is right in what she says. The whole point of the Bill is to free these charities from being, in effect, arm’s length parts of the Government. If we say, “We want to free you, but now we want to pop

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back in the Secretary of State having specific powers that do not apply to any other charities”, that is not a coherent argument and it would not produce coherent legislation. Hon. Members may have concerns about how charities are regulated and whether someone can go off to the Seychelles with the money, but that is a debate about the wider system of charity regulation in this country. They should not seek to put something specific into this Bill that adds another layer of bureaucracy for the charities involved, given that the whole point of the Bill is to get shot of such bureaucracy. I am not persuaded by those amendments.

Amendment 9 deals with the NHS logo. It was put forward eloquently by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), but, sadly, I will not be joining in the fashion of supporting it. I appreciate that the bodies it deals with are working closely with the NHS, but so, too, do other charities. For example, the Torbay Hospital League of Friends has its own logo and it successfully raises money for Torbay hospital. The name makes it obvious what it is linked with.

Mrs Sheryll Murray: We could extend that point even further. A lot of the surgeries in my constituency have “friends of the surgery” organisations. Are we saying that they should be allowed to use the NHS logo, too? Where does this end?

Kevin Foster: I thank my hon. Friend for that good point. Once we start on the principle of these changes, where do we stop? Karing, a charity in my constituency—it is in Preston, in Paignton—is very closely linked with a local doctor’s surgery, and it was lucky enough recently to have had its new base opened by Esther Rantzen. It is not, however, part of that surgery. Clearly, the two work together, with Karing supporting and providing great services, giving real benefits to local people, but, crucially, it is not part of the business that is the surgery, nor is it part of the business that is the NHS. That is where the logo point comes in.

Tom Tugendhat: My hon. Friend is making a strong, clear point. In my constituency, Edenbridge hospital has a league of friends, which is there not only to support the hospital—it does that incredibly impressively—but to support the needs of the community and to advocate when the hospital gets it wrong, which, occasionally, it may have done. Keeping that independence is essential so that the charity can actually do its job and not merely be an adjunct to the hospital.

Kevin Foster: My hon. Friend makes the excellent point that many people will see a league of friends at a local hospital as not just having a function of holding some money in an account, but as also being a stakeholder in the process, able to speak independently and fearlessly about the local hospital and the charities. It needs to be seen as neutral and independent. As we have mentioned, the Public Accounts Committee looked in depth this week at the financial sustainability of NHS trusts. There are concerns about that, and we have seen examples where NHS trusts have gone badly wrong. Thankfully, this Government have been far more prepared to talk about that and deal with it than previous Governments have been. If the charity is seen to be part of the trust, we go back to the idea that the charity is not bringing in additionality. People will think, “I am not donating

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money so that there is something extra; I am donating money that could or should have been provided by the Government or by the trust.”

If we start spreading the logo around, we open up other debates that are not particularly helpful, as we set a precedent. That was touched on briefly in the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall. People are very precious about the NHS—it is a symbol of the public sector, delivered by the public sector. That is a very important point. If we start extending use of the logo to charities, what do we do about other bodies that might wish to start using it? For example, we regularly see the NHS logo used alongside “in partnership”, for example with a foundation trust or the Department of Health, but we do not see groups such as my local league of friends abandoning their long-established and very well-recognised brand within the local area to say that they are collecting for the NHS. The Torbay Hospital League of Friends is doing a great job with its “This is Critical” campaign to get money to help equip the new critical care unit of the hospital, but it is not the NHS, and the essence of that approach is that what it provides is additional and that it is independent. That is why, for me, the amendment would go against the whole spirit of the Bill, which is about independent charities and independent trusts. For me, amendment 9 does not make sense and I will not be supporting it. I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset will not press it to a vote.

12.15 pm

As I have mentioned in my interventions, this is a worthwhile Bill that sets a great framework for having an independent set of charities and a facility whereby people can more easily raise funds and make a difference for their local hospital and their local community. Some of the amendments would emasculate those aims, making it look as though the organisations covered by the Bill were part of the Government. I therefore do not think that the amendments can stand.

The Bill as it has come from the Committee makes sense, sets out the appropriate safeguards and should not be seen as sweeping away regulation or oversight of these charities. It places the charities under the oversight that this Parliament has provided for every other charity in this country. If the regulation system is good enough for Rowcroft hospice, a place that provides exceptional care to those in the final stages of their lives, and for the Torbay Hospital League of Friends, it is good enough for the charities covered by the Bill. I urge the Members who have tabled these well-meaning amendments, supporting the overall objective of the Bill, to realise that many of them do not help the Bill’s aims and in fact strike at its heart. I hope that they will not press them to a vote.

Jeremy Quin: It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster). Like him, I am a great supporter of the Bill and, like him, I think that it emerged in good shape from Committee. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on steering it on its merry path to get here today. It is because I support the Bill that I look askance at some of the amendments. I wish

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the Bill a smooth passage today; that is why I oppose the amendments, particularly amendments 4, 2 and 7. My hon. Friends have been incredibly generous in giving way to a number of Members this morning, including me, so I do not feel the need to speak at length. However, there were one or two points that I thought would be useful contributions to the debate.

On amendment 4, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson), I thought that my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg)—the fashionable Member for North East Somerset—was somewhat cynical in his approach to public consultations. There are at least three circumstances in which public consultations can be valuable. My hon. Friend the Member for Torbay mentioned one: cases of great constitutional import for this Chamber and this country. My hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) referred to others, and made an excellent point about the consultation on the congestion charge in London—a matter of wide regional interest. The cost of that consultation was borne to ensure that the relevant authorities had a proper appreciation of the views of the electorate, which was a wise step in those circumstances.

There are also circumstances in which consultation is appropriate at a local level. One such case in my constituency related to school catchment areas, which matter greatly. It is important that those consultations are carried out properly, and that all those who will be affected—or, in this case, whose children will be affected—are able to contribute to those consultations. Not every consultation is conducted to as high a standard as we would all wish.

The amendments are extremely technical. I urge my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole to reconsider his amendment 4, as it would place a huge burden on the Secretary of State and on the trustees to go through a process of consultation on highly technical issues that are not matters of constitutional, regional or local import affecting individuals. Although I greatly respect my hon. Friend, going through a process of public consultation is unnecessarily burdensome, particularly where the matter will be reviewed and can always be brought to the attention of this House through the normal procedure. We should empower the trustees to take decisions.

Understandably, my hon. Friend was not able, although pressed by my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Mrs Murray) and by me, to give an approximation of the costs or who may bear them. That should be a point for consideration by the House.

Michael Tomlinson: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for not being quite so cynical about public consultations as other hon. Members have been during the debate. Perhaps he should cite one further consultation: that which was the foundation of the Bill. On cost, he does not press me to come up with a precise figure, I know, but does he accept the broad point that if public consultation is right in principle, the cost will have to follow, come what may?

Jeremy Quin: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for clarifying his views. I have no problem with paying for consultations when they are necessary and appropriate, but I do not believe that the circumstances likely to pertain to the Bill will be in that category. Issues worthy

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of consultation are those described by my hon. Friends the Members for Torbay and for North West Hampshire, and the local issues to which I referred.

On amendment 2 tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire, I hope he will not be upset if I refer to it as the magic circle amendment—now you see it in the Bill, now you don’t—hey presto. With one stroke, his amendment would remove a power that is at the core of the Bill, as it creates clarity for the charities concerned. I know that every hon. Member who has tabled an amendment today is a passionate supporter of those charities, as are we all. The benefit of the Bill is that it provides clarity to the charities. Under the Bill, trustees will become fully independent. They are left in no doubt about who is responsible for the conduct of the charity and about their own corporate governance. That is a good thing, which empowers them and encourages responsibility.

Kevin Foster: My hon. Friend has made some excellent points. Does he agree that the point of the Bill is to make these charities independent and regulated like others? This is the Peter Pan Bill, but the tale of disaster behind the amendments will make them the Tinkerbell amendments.

Jeremy Quin: I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s knowledge of pantomimes. No doubt Captain Hook is in there somewhere. I certainly accept the pith of his remarks. By making the charities fully independent, we provide clarity not only to the trustees by empowering them, but to donors, who will know that their generous gifts to the charities will be looked after by independent trustees.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Seema Kennedy) referred to the sad state of current polling on Government Ministers. I think we would all agree in this House that those who fulfil the functions of charity trustees are good people doing a good task, and are recognised as such. They are the people whom the generous donors to these charities want to be in command of the assets that they transfer, rather than any other body. That is why I oppose the amendment.

Amendment 7, which stands in the name of my hon. and fashionable Friend the Member for North East Somerset, would merely add to complexity and cost, neither of which is required. In particular, a report from the Comptroller and Auditor General is an unnecessarily bureaucratic step.

Seema Kennedy: Does my hon. Friend agree that if we are trying to increase the public’s confidence in these charities, involving bodies such as the Comptroller and Auditor General—names that are alien perhaps to many of us, and definitely to our constituents—will not fulfil the purpose of this Bill?

Jeremy Quin: The Comptroller and Auditor General already has a very valuable role, and I would not wish to place extra burdens on him. I take my hon. Friend’s point.

The purpose of the Bill is to provide clarity, so that donors know that the boards are in control of their destiny and will look after their assets appropriately in the interests of the charitable endeavours that they serve. Involving bodies such as the Comptroller and

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Auditor General would merely invite bureaucracy and confusion. There are myriad auditors prepared to do a good job to support charity trustees in their work and to ensure that their accounts are kept in good order, so I do not see the need to involve public bodies. With that in mind, in particular, I beg to differ with my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset, and I hope that he will withdraw his amendment.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills on introducing this Bill, which I wish a smooth passage. I hope that those who have tabled amendments will think again and withdraw them to allow for that smooth passage.

Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): I congratulate the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on bringing her Bill through to Report stage. The Bill will improve the independence of NHS charitable trusts, and I am pleased to speak on it. I did not serve on the Committee, but I note that it lasted only 10 minutes. The House has obviously since developed an appetite for debating amendments, which could be seen as surprising. However, the hon. Lady dealt with them very well, so I will keep my comments short.

Michael Tomlinson: Will the hon. Lady give way?

Barbara Keeley: No, because I want to keep my comments short, as I say. As we have heard, funding from NHS charities supports innovation and research and enables the provision of additional facilities, services and equipment for their associated hospitals. Some Members have cast a shadow of doubt over the value of NHS charities, and I want to challenge that. Salford Royal NHS Foundation Trust in my local area has its own charity, and last year it raised over £450,000, which was used to provide additional services at the hospital. As with other NHS charities, the majority of its funding comes from donations and legacies, with some from investment income; there has been a great deal of debate about how donors feel about that. In in some cases, however, donations come from patients and their families who are grateful for the care that they have received. Salford Royal is an excellent hospital, so it is very good that patients and their families are able to make donations via the charity to express their thanks. That is a very important aspect.

The charity funding of Salford Royal NHS Foundation Trust has been put to good use. In the past year, it has provided additional staff training and supported medical research, with the aim of promoting health and improving the treatment and care of patients. There has been a negative aspect to this debate, with doubt being cast on the value of NHS charities, but I do not agree with that. I agree with the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills that the various amendments will not improve the Bill, and I am happy to support that position on behalf of the official Opposition.

12.30 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Jane Ellison): What a fascinating morning this has been. I add my congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton), who has dealt with some of the amendments. I hope to add some additional information and clarification, and to

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provide the useful history behind the need for and origins of the Bill. It is good that it has been debated with such thoroughness and that it has been given clear attention.

Michael Tomlinson: I am grateful to the Minister for mentioning the thoroughness of this debate. Does she agree that one of the reasons for the short Committee stage was that this House was debating the important matter of Syria? The Bill is important, but some might argue that the Syria debate was more important. Perhaps that explains why the Committee stage was so short.

Jane Ellison: That is probably a helpful thing to put on the record. All Members have to use their time wisely and appropriately, whatever the business of the House is at any one time. That seems to have been a sensible thing to do. Thankfully, we have been able to give this small but important Bill the time and attention it deserves this morning.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson) for tabling amendment 4, which seeks to oblige the Secretary of State to carry out public consultation that he considers appropriate—we have dwelt on that somewhat—before making regulations that make provisions consequential to the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees to NHS bodies and to appoint special trustees. I do not believe that the amendment is necessary, for some of the reasons covered by others and on which I will try to elaborate.

Schedule 1 already makes a range of amendments to primary legislation that are consequential to the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers. They remove references to trustees in other legislation, because they would no longer make sense given that such trustees will no longer exist. The regulations that the Secretary of State does have the power to make under clause 1(2) are technical and remove any outdated references to such trustees, so that, in effect, tidies up all related provisions in primary or secondary legislation that might come to light in future.

It would, therefore, be unusual to consult the public. Members have given interesting examples of consultations in their own constituencies. It is fair to say that a degree of cynicism has been expressed, perhaps unduly, but I certainly agree with the principle that one should go into a consultation with an open mind. I assure the House that the Government seek to do that when they enter into consultations.

The situation with technical issues, however, is slightly different. The amendment seeks to consult the public on regulations that make technical, consequential changes, but proper scrutiny of such consequential changes is undertaken by Parliament. Indeed, Members have referred to such occasions. That is especially the case when consequential amendments are made by regulations to primary legislation, as the regulations are subject to debate and approval in both Houses. I hope that that gives some comfort to those who were concerned about the consultation issue.

Amendments 1 and 2 propose the retention in one form or another of the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees, and we have had a good debate about that. Amendment 1 would give the Secretary of State

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the power to make provision, by secondary legislation, to re-establish the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees to NHS charitable trusts. It would make such secondary legislation subject to the affirmative procedure and require that the draft secondary legislation be published three months before it is laid before Parliament.

Amendment 2 makes provision for the Secretary of State to appoint one or more trustees where he or she is satisfied that

“exceptional circumstances exist, or…all the trustee positions in relation to a particular charitable trust have been vacant for a period exceeding three months”.

As has been said, independence is the next stage in the evolution of NHS charities. Now that NHS charities have the choice to become independent or to remain as NHS charities with corporate trustees, the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees have served their purpose and are no longer necessary.

Before the Government’s reform of the regulation and governance of NHS charities, nearly all the largest NHS charities had trustees appointed by the Secretary of State. As other hon. Members have said, particularly its promoter, my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills, such charities were frustrated by the dual regulation of NHS and charity legislation, and one can quite understand why they felt limited in their ability to best support their beneficiaries. Many of the charities wanted the opportunity to become independent so that they could fully realise their potential. Other hon. Members have made good points about their need to express their independence and distance from the Government.

The Government’s reform of the regulation and governance of NHS charities has given those that wished to do so the opportunity to convert to independent status under the sole regulation of the Charity Commission. Six of the largest NHS charities with trustees appointed by the Secretary of State have already converted to independence, having decided that that is their best option for the future. The vast majority of the remaining 15 NHS charities with trustees appointed by the Secretary of State have indicated that they, too, plan to convert to independence in the near future. Three NHS charities with corporate trustee arrangements have also indicated that they wish to convert to independence.

At this point, it might be useful for the House and assist hon. Members who have tabled amendments to question some aspects of the Bill if I go a little into the history of this reform. It has always been a challenge to develop a system of regulation and governance that is workable for both the small number of very large NHS charities and charities with income of only a few thousand pounds a year. Within the sector, income is heavily skewed towards charities linked to large, high-profile hospital trusts, some of which have been mentioned during the debate. In 2012, the top five NHS charities accounted for more than a third of the total income, the top 15 for more than half of the total income and the top 30 for more than two thirds of the total income. However, the 50 smallest registered NHS charities had an average annual income of less than £10,000. The largest NHS charities require a different level of professional management.

Pauline Latham: Does my hon. Friend agree that NHS charities helping to put defibrillators in public places are doing a good job for the country? I am trying

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to persuade all my churches to have defibrillators outside their buildings for the benefit of the community, and some have already done so. It is an important fact that charities within the health service do a huge amount of good out in the community, as well as in hospitals.

Jane Ellison: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Several hon. Members have mentioned charities in their area that are doing great work to increase the public availability of defibrillators. Perhaps I may take a moment to update the House on that matter. The Government were delighted, in partnership with the British Heart Foundation, to provide £1 million for defibrillators, meaning that this life-saving equipment will be given to communities right across the country—we have heard about several examples this morning, and my hon. Friend has mentioned another great example in Derbyshire—and that more people can be trained in cardiopulmonary resuscitation. That will make it easier for people to act in an emergency, and ultimately it will of course save lives.

I can update the House by saying that applications opened last October and interest was very high. The British Heart Foundation allocated funding to applicants who could demonstrate that the criteria had been met, and the application process has now closed. We look forward to hearing more about all the places around the country—I am sure that some of them will be in constituencies of hon. Members in the Chamber—where such life-saving work will be enabled.

Kevin Foster: I am interested to hear the Minister’s remarks. Given the slightly negative perceptions of charitable work and the descriptions of things that could go wrong that we heard earlier, would she like to comment on the things that are going very well? Will she put on the record her thanks, on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government, to the Torbay Hospital League of Friends? Over 62 years, it has raised millions of pounds to support local people and it is currently running its “This Is Critical” campaign to provide equipment for the new critical care unit that is under construction at Torbay hospital.

Jane Ellison: My hon. Friend is exactly right. At times, the debate has moved into rather gloomy territory. He used the “EastEnders” analogy. During the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse), I began to think he was speaking to the Private Frazer amendment—the “We’re doomed!” amendment.

My hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) is right to bring us back to the great work that is being done. My experience of a local league of friends is similarly positive. Often, in the cut and thrust of our debates on legislation from Monday to Thursday we do not have time to put on the record the thanks of Parliament and the Government for the efforts of groups like his league of friends. It is welcome that this morning, when we have a little more time, we are able to put on the record our thanks to people who are not in the spotlight, but who are doing wonderful work in all our constituencies. I congratulate him on doing that and join him in praising the Torbay Hospital League of Friends.

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Jeremy Quin: On that note, may I draw to the Minister’s attention one charity in my constituency? Like my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster), we have charities that support the local hospital, but we also have Action Medical Research, which does a wonderful job for children. It was formed back in 1952 and has the distinction of being supported by Paddington Bear, which is wonderful. It runs the largest regular London to Paris bike ride to raise funds to support research into diseases that affect young children. It is not directly linked to the NHS, but it is a wonderful medical charity. I hope that the Bill will empower many more such charities to get going.

Jane Ellison: How nice it is to hear about that charity. I congratulate my hon. Friend on taking the opportunity to praise it and to shine a spotlight on a charity that so richly deserves it. Indeed, well done to him for name-checking Paddington in a debate that has been otherwise dominated by Peter Pan. We will see whether any more well-loved characters make an appearance before the end of the debate.

Maggie Throup: I cannot lay claim to any characters in my constituency. It is not just the work that charities do in hospitals that is important, but the work that they do outside hospitals to make sure that people do not go into hospital. One of my local charities, Community Concern Erewash, recently linked up with the Alzheimer’s Society to work in the community to help people suffering from Alzheimer’s to cope in their own homes and stay in their homes a lot longer. Will my hon. Friend praise that charity and recognise the contribution that such charities make to our society?

Jane Ellison: I am delighted to add my praise for my hon. Friend’s charity. I was honoured after the election to have dementia policy added to my portfolio as public health Minister. She is right to draw our attention to the need to work outside hospital to keep people safer in their own homes. As I know from working with dementia charities, large and small, much of that work is done by small local charities. I am delighted to echo her praise for the charity in her constituency.

To return to the amendments, although the largest charities require a level of professional management, the same is not required by many of the smallest ones. The corporate trustees arrangement, whereby the board of the trust or, prior to that, the board of the hospital acts as the trustee, is not sufficient to manage the large sums that are held by the largest NHS charities. They need a more professional approach, in many cases. The Government first took steps to address that issue in 1973. The Secretary of State took powers to appoint so-called special trustees to manage charitable property on behalf of hospital boards. Three hospitals—Moorfields, the Royal National Orthopaedic hospital and Great Ormond Street—appointed such special trustees to manage their charitable funds.

12.45 pm

With the advent of NHS trusts in 1990, the Secretary of State acquired powers to appoint trustees to them. Those powers have since been extended to other NHS bodies, although they have been used to appoint trustees only to NHS foundation trusts as well as NHS trusts.

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Corporate trustees, who consider that separate trustees might be appropriate, can approach the Department of Health to ask the Secretary of State to use his powers to enable the appointment of separate trustees. The size of the charitable funds was the key determinant in deciding whether separate trustees were appropriate.

Guidance that the Department issued in 2011 stated that assets of more than £10 million and an annual income or expenditure of £1 million would provide a clear case for the appointment of separate trustees. It was considered that charities of this size had the critical mass to benefit from the cost of employing specialist expertise in administering the fund. I think that we all recognise the common sense of that. In total, 18 NHS charities have separate trustees appointed by the Secretary of State.

Although separate trustee arrangements enabled the largest NHS charities to benefit from more expert management, there were still frustrations. Several of the largest NHS charities called for reform because of concerns that the NHS legislative framework limited charities’ freedom to grow and develop their charitable activity to best support their beneficiaries. They cited a number of issues with separate trustee arrangements.

The fact that the Secretary of State appoints the trustees made it difficult to demonstrate visible independence from Government to potential donors. Several colleagues made that point well in the debate. Donors feared that charitable donations would simply be swallowed up in running the trust rather than giving a clear charitable benefit.

Being bound to NHS legislation prevented the charities from adopting different legal forms appropriate to their specific needs, particularly those offering limited liability. There has been a good debate this morning about the encouragement that we might give people to come forward as charity trustees: what might encourage people to embrace that opportunity and also what might put them off. That is important. Understandably, trustees and potential trustees were nervous about the personal risks that they faced in relation to their liabilities.

The “Agenda for Change” arrangements that govern NHS staff pay and conditions are often not a good fit for NHS staff who support NHS charities. In addition, the Charity Commission believes that dual regulation, under both NHS and charity legislation, made it difficult for NHS charities to achieve and demonstrate independence.

As a result of the concerns, the Department conducted a review of NHS charities in 2011, consulting publicly, although not especially fashionably, on its proposals in 2012 and publishing its response in 2014. I do not want to labour this point but, as we all know, the Government announced that they would allow NHS charities to move to independent charity status. Charities that decided to become independent would no longer be NHS charities, but independent charities, regulated solely by the Charity Commission and responsible for appointing their own trustees. The Department put safeguards in place to preserve the unique relationship between the charities and the trusts with which they are associated.

I think that a concern was in the back of some hon. Members’ minds as they discussed the possible unhelpful directions in which independent charities could go off.

The funds that are transferred to the new charity can be used only for the same charitable purpose as originally

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intended. I hope that that gives hon. Members some comfort. The NHS body should have some involvement in a new charity’s governance arrangements, for example, having a specific place on the board. The Department and the Association of NHS Charities—I know that that body is well respected; my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills has worked closely with it and she might say more about that on Third Reading—have published detailed guidance for charities on that policy.

The Department concluded that, in view of the responses to the consultation and the new freedom for NHS charities to become independent, the Secretary of State’s power to appoint trustees was no longer necessary. We would all—certainly Government Members— agree that we do not want unnecessary legislation.

As I have set out, NHS charities with separate trustees have seized the opportunity to become independent. Independence is also attracting strong interest from some of the larger NHS charities with corporate trustee arrangements, and we will see further movement over the next few years.

Let me say a little about why amendments 1 and 2 are unnecessary. There are a number of policy and technical legal issues, which is I why I believe that the amendments should be withdrawn. The Government gave a clear commitment in their consultation response that the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint separate trustees would be repealed at the first legislative opportunity. It would therefore be unusual to remove those powers now, and then include a power to re-establish them in the same Bill. That would demonstrate indecision, and send a mixed message to the charity sector and to donors—the opposite of what we are trying to achieve.

Clear independence from the Government was one of the main drivers for the charities involved—again, that has been drawn out in our debate. What message would it send to donors if charities could revert to having trustees appointed by the Secretary of State? Such a measure would also undermine the process set up to move all NHS charities with separate trustees to independence, or back to corporate status. We do not want to give the impression that continuing with the status quo might be acceptable when that is not the case.

There are also technical problems with the amendments. Amendment 1 would not work because the Secretary of State’s current powers allow them to appoint trustees to particular NHS bodies, or to appoint special trustees, and not—as the amendment suggests—to appoint trustees to NHS charitable trusts. That is a technical distinction. As has been said, the appointment of trustees is already governed by charity law for independent charities, or, for NHS charities with corporate trustee arrangements, by the provisions that govern appointment to the board of NHS bodies.

A difficulty with amendment 2 means that it too would not work. Regulations in clause 1(2) are aimed at enabling the Secretary of State to make consequential amendments to legislation that are necessary as a result of the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees to NHS bodies, and to appoint special trustees. To extend the scope of those regulations to empower the Secretary of State to appoint trustees in particular circumstances is entirely inappropriate, as such provision would not be considered consequential on the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers.

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Rather, it is a direct contradiction of that position. Equally, it is unclear in the amendments to which bodies the Secretary of State would have the power to appoint trustees.

For amendment 3 my hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire invoked the Private Frazer-style of debating, and made us all feel—hopefully not people outside the House—that they might be doomed were they to engage in what we all know to be a particularly satisfying form of charitable and public service, which is serving as a charity trustee. My hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) was effective in giving some of the reasons why many of us were unconvinced about that.

Kit Malthouse: Will the Minister give way?

Jane Ellison: I will; it is only fair.

Kit Malthouse: By no means was I trying to give the impression that charity workers and trustees across the UK are not doing brilliant work. Most of them are well-minded, and efficient in disposing of their duties as they should. As I am sure the Minister will agree, much of our legislation involves dealing with exceptions. Most people live their lives largely untouched by legislation in this House—although more and more they are touched by legislation from over the water in Europe—but we are dealing with exceptions. All I was trying to do was to deal with an exceptional circumstance where a negative situation may arise, and I have nothing but admiration and optimism for the vast majority of charities, charitable workers and trustees.

Jane Ellison: That is a helpful note of clarification. I sense we all felt that beneath the Private Frazer amendment lurked a Private Walker amendment instead. My hon. Friend is right to draw our attention to some very high-profile exceptions to the general rule. His exposition of the challenges that some high-profile charities face was compelling. It is helpful for us to have that on the record and to go forward with consensus on the merits of being a charity trustee.

Amendment 3 seeks to give the Secretary of State the power, in the regulations he may make, to make provision consequential on the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees in clause 1(1) to make

“provision for one trustee to be appointed by the NHS institution, service or function for whose benefit the charitable trust exists.”

The guidance to NHS charities, produced jointly by the Department of Health and the Association of NHS Charities, suggests that the constitution of the new independent charity could provide for at least one trustee on the board being appointed by, or from, the NHS-linked body. It is a suggestion, rather than a binding obligation, that the new charities constitution should make this provision. The constitution of the new independent charity is a matter best decided by those nearest to the beneficiaries. In the case of an NHS charity with separate trustees, the board of the linked NHS body must support the terms of the conversion, including the terms of the new charity’s constitution, for the Secretary of State to agree to the revocation of their appointment. In the case of a charity with corporate trustee arrangements, it is self-evidently the board of the relevant NHS trust or

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NHS foundation trust that agrees the constitution of the new charity—again, offering that safeguard.

Ultimately, this is all about independence and local autonomy. The level and the nature of the agreement between the NHS body and the new charity needs to be a matter of local agreement. It is a matter for the local NHS and the charity to agree a constitution for the new independent charity that best meets the needs of beneficiaries.

Amendment 3 has similar technical difficulties to those I outlined in relation to amendments 2 and 4. It is unclear to which bodies amendment 3 relates, and what is meant by

“the NHS institution, service or function”.

A service or function referred to in the amendment cannot appoint a trustee. Again, I am afraid that such regulation-making power would not be workable.

Amendments 5 and 6 seek to remove the requirements that the regulations, which may make provision consequential on the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers in clause 1(1), would have to be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure if they amend legislation. Instead, the two amendments propose that the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers should be subject only to the negative resolution procedure. We believe that the affirmative resolution procedure is the appropriate form of oversight for these regulations. Parliament should have the opportunity actively to debate and vote on secondary legislation that amends primary legislation. Making such regulations subject only to the negative resolution procedure would not provide an appropriate level of parliamentary scrutiny.

There has rightly been much discussion this morning about the appropriate level of parliamentary scrutiny—and indeed the meaning of the word “appropriate”—but I think there was a strong feeling in the House that there are moments when parliamentary scrutiny is very important, particularly when it can be done with the level of detail we have seen this morning. I believe the current level of parliamentary scrutiny provided for in the Bill for this regulation is appropriate, and there are a huge number of precedents to support this approach.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) for tabling amendments 7 and 8. The amendments seek to provide that the regulations that may be made by the Secretary of State under clause 2(1) to transfer trust property from appointed trustees for an NHS trust or NHS foundation trust back to the NHS trust or NHS foundation trust, should be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. The amendments would also require that such transfers be accompanied by a statement by the Comptroller and Auditor General—again, a title that attracted a bit of debate in itself—that he is satisfied with the treatment of public assets and funds envisaged in the regulations.

1 pm

Clause 2 provides that those regulations would be subject to the negative resolution procedure, which we consider to be the appropriate level of public scrutiny in this case. Any regulations made under this power would be simple and technical, transferring all the trust property held by the appointed trustees back to the NHS trust or NHS foundation trust to which they were appointed. We do not think that such regulations would require

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active debate in both Houses or a report from the Comptroller and Auditor General. The National Health Service Act 2006 contains several equivalent powers for the Secretary of State to transfer trust property between NHS bodies by means of secondary legislation subject to the negative resolution procedure, as the regulations in clause 2 would be. I hope I have reassured my hon. Friend that an affirmative procedure is not required in this regard.

Mr Rees-Mogg: I am grateful for the Minister’s reassurance, and I am more than happy to accept it.

Jane Ellison: I thank my hon. Friend. It gives me great pleasure, as a Minister at the Dispatch Box, to receive such a note of approbation from him, given that he is rather expert when it comes to Friday sittings and these technical amendments. I am honoured, indeed, by his intervention.

On amendment 9, my hon. Friend took the opportunity to praise a local charity in his constituency promoting the use of defibrillators. In common with other hon. Friends who drew attention to this, I thank his local charity for its work on this important undertaking. I am glad that, as has been mentioned, the Chancellor was able to give £1 million to this important cause, which is working with the British Heart Foundation to bring far more defibrillators into public places in North East Somerset and far beyond.

I thank my hon. Friend for his question about the use of the NHS logo. I know from his contribution on Second Reading that he has interest in its licensing. I hope I can put his mind at rest by confirming that independent charities, including former NHS charities, can use the localised NHS logo of the NHS organisation for which they raise funds. Independent charities can arrange permission to use the logo, if they are working in partnership with an NHS organisation. We heard examples of local charities working in close partnership. In addition to heaping praise, rightly, on the Torbay Hospital League of Friends, my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay mentioned a Paignton charity working closely with a local NHS body. That is a good example.

The NHS logo generates high degrees of trust and reassurance among patients and the public, as my hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin) drew out in his contribution. We all understand why. We can all cast our minds back to the many occasions when that trust and reassurance have been in the public spotlight. I think, in particular, of the opening ceremony of the Olympic games. Who can forget the spelling out of “GOSH”? I am sure will hear far more about that admirable institution on Third Reading.

The use of the NHS logo is carefully controlled because it indicates that the NHS is in some way accountable and responsible for the services or materials to which it is applied. It is a registered trademark and an important public brand, so there are strict rules governing the correct use of the NHS identity. Generally, the NHS identity guidelines do not permit independent charities to use the NHS trademarks in their names or promotional material, as it could cause confusion and give the public the incorrect impression that a charity is officially endorsed or organisationally linked to the NHS, as many hon. Friends have said. As I have mentioned, however, independent charities can seek approval to use the NHS

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logo, if they are working in partnership with it. An independent charity will often set up an agreement with a local NHS organisation to fundraise on its behalf. We have already heard some examples of close, long-standing links between charity organisations and the NHS, and I am sure that Members will be aware of many more in their constituencies. It is possible for a local organisation to use the NHS’s identity in a supporting position with respect to promotional and fundraising materials—on the proviso that there is a local agreement in place for the fundraising activity to benefit solely local NHS services.

It is fair to say that there has been some slightly wild speculation in the course of our debate about some of the far-flung places to which people might go, using NHS charity resources inappropriately. It is important to ensure that the association with the NHS is guarded. From a legal perspective, however, the amendment would make no change to the current position. The Secretary of State is the registered owner of a number of NHS trademarks. As such, the Secretary of State is already free to license trademarks to independent charities in accordance with his statutory powers and duties. Furthermore, as the registered trademark owner, the Secretary of State may set the terms of any such licence as he chooses, including specifying the notice period required for termination—an important power, as I think Members would agree. In some circumstances, it may be more appropriate to make provision for a licence to be terminated at shorter notice or immediately—where, for example, a charity is in breach of the licence terms.

On that important point, about which Members were rightly expressing a degree of concern, I hope I have been able to provide reassurance. I hope, too, that I have provided clarity as well as reassurance on some of the other amendments.

Mr Rees-Mogg: May I ask the Minister about one further point? When the NHS logo is licensed to small charities, I hope the process will not be too bureaucratic or onerous for them and that the application of the regulations will not be too pettifogging.

Jane Ellison: My hon. Friend is wholly consistent on this issue. Since he came here in 2010, I have been delighted to hear him stand up on many occasions for people who find overbearing state bureaucracy at either the national or local level. He seeks to ensure that any such bureaucracy is always light touch and appropriate. He rightly seeks reassurance and I think I can give him that. We would never seek to make the process overbearing. It would obviously be inappropriate, given that the central drive of the first part of this important private Member’s Bill is to bring clarity and to avoid double-regulation. It would be nonsense if any aspect of what we have discussed this morning added to the bureaucratic burden. We are trying to head in an entirely different direction—one of which I hope my hon. Friend, given his long-standing role as a champion in this House, will approve.

Pauline Latham: My hon. Friend has twice referred in her speech to defibrillators and the money that the Chancellor has given to the British Heart Foundation to provide more of them. I urge her to continue to lobby the Chancellor on this issue. In his forthcoming Budget,

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he might be prepared to consider adding to that fund so that more people in the community could benefit from defibrillators.

Jane Ellison: My hon. Friend has effectively just undertaken such an act of lobbying. The take-up of this fund is extremely encouraging, and I would be happy to give her more information, as I know she has spoken about this subject here on many occasions—as, indeed, have other Members. We had Backbench Business debates on it in the last Parliament, and I am sure it is one to which we will return. It is an area in respect of which parliamentarians can be great champions in their local areas. I greatly welcome hearing my hon. Friend speak with such enthusiasm about this matter.

Nigel Huddleston: May I encourage the Minister to continue her lobbying efforts in that regard? In my area, the west midlands, just 12% of the population feel confident enough to use a defibrillator. What is important is not just the provision of defibrillators, but the training that accompanies it, which I know is being promoted by the British Heart Foundation.

Jane Ellison rose—

Madam Deputy Speaker (Natascha Engel): Order. Before the Minister responds, I should point out that the subject of defibrillators is some distance away from any of the amendments. The hon. Gentleman might like to save it for Third Reading.

Jane Ellison: I am sure we all recognise the truth of your judgment, Madam Deputy Speaker, but the example was given earlier of an NHS charity that had championed defibrillators in the local community, and I think that that is how the topic was introduced. My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Nigel Huddleston) has made a good point, and I shall be happy to give him more information about the proportion of the fund that the British Heart Foundation has been able to spend on the training that he described.

I hope that what I have said about the amendments has been of assistance to the House.

Michael Tomlinson: In the light of the reassurances that have been given, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

ThirdReading

1.11 pm

Wendy Morton: I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

Let me begin by thanking Members who are here today for giving up another constituency Friday to take part in the debate. Some of them were also present on Second Reading, including my hon. Friends the Members for Erewash (Maggie Throup) and for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), who is no longer in the Chamber. I also thank those who served on the Public Bill Committee, absenting themselves from the debate on Syria to be present on that day, and, again, I thank Members on both sides of the House who sponsored my Bill last summer after my name had been drawn in the ballot,

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allowing Peter Pan to find his Wendy—or, at least, I hope so. I thank the Department of Health for its help, and, as a new Member, I thank those in the Public Bill Office, whose patience has been admirable. I should also record my thanks to the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) for supporting the Bill; sadly, he is not present today.

I welcome my new Tinker Bell to the Dispatch Box. I feel duty bound to reassure her that I remain on my guard for ticking crocodiles, Captain Hook and, of course, those unruly Lost Boys, although they are not here at the moment.

I am, of course, delighted that my NHS (Charitable Trusts Etc) Bill—commonly known, I hope and believe, as the Peter Pan and Wendy Bill, without brackets or Etc—has safely arrived at its Third Reading. There has been no exit stage left, or right, taking it directly to Neverland; it is still en route to another place, and, I trust, to Royal Assent.

On Second Reading, we were given many examples—some based on personal experience—of the importance of NHS charities and their role in supporting hospitals, patients, parents and staff. That has been underlined by the accounts that we heard today of the tremendous work that NHS charities do, and it also demonstrates the Bill’s importance in helping those charities to continue and flourish.

As I have mentioned before, NHS charities are regulated under charity law, but they are also linked to NHS bodies and bound by NHS legislation. They are charitable trusts, established under NHS legislation, and have as their trustee an NHS body such as a foundation trust, or trustees appointed by the Secretary of State for an NHS body. It should be borne in mind that NHS charities are distinct from independent charities established solely under charity law.

Funds donated to the NHS must be held separately from Exchequer funding provided by the taxpayer. These charities exist to support their beneficiaries, and there is a special relationship between them and the trusts with which they are associated. Some wonderful examples have been given today of local hospital charities and the special relationship that they have with their local NHS trusts.

The first part of the Bill makes provision to remove the Secretary of State for Health’s powers to appoint trustees for NHS charities in England and makes amendments to primary legislation concerned with this. It is important to remember that this fulfils a commitment by the Government in 2014, subsequent to a DOH review and consultation on the governance of NHS charities. The outcome of the consultation was that NHS charities would be allowed to convert to independence if they chose to do so and the Secretary of State for Health’s powers to appoint trustees to NHS charities under the National Health Service Act 2006 would be removed at the earliest opportunity.

It is fair to say that a number of the larger NHS charities called for reform because of concerns that the NHS legislative framework limited their freedom to grow and develop their charitable activity to best support their beneficiaries and to demonstrate to potential donors a visible independence from Government. That is an important point, and some have already grasped the

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opportunity to become independent while others are in the process and some are planning to do so in the future.

Collectively across the country about 260 charities currently exist to receive and manage charitable funds on behalf of NHS charities. I am sure Members will be interested to know that just over £345 million was raised by these charities in the last financial year, supporting patients and staff right across the country, so we should be doing all we can to support them. They make an outstanding contribution, yet their work often goes unheralded. I hope that today’s debate helps to publicise their work and the valuable contribution they make to hospitals as well as to the lives of patients, their families and clinicians. But just as healthcare moves on, so does the charitable environment, and there is a real need to place certainty in an already complex structure. I hope, and believe, that that is what this Bill will do.

There are currently 16 NHS charities that have trustees appointed by the Secretary of State for Health, and all of them are affected by my Bill. They are bound by charity law and NHS legislation. They are currently unincorporated and their trustees have unlimited liability.

Maggie Throup: My hon. Friend mentions that NHS charities are bound by charity law as well as other legislation. We both sat on the Charities (Social Investment and Protection) Public Bill Committee. Can she expand on why her Bill should be a separate Bill and why its measures cannot go through as part of that Bill?

Wendy Morton: My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. I also sat on the charities Bill Committee, and it comes back to the House next week, I believe. My Bill is a specific piece of legislation. It came about because of Great Ormond Street hospital and the need to move the right to the royalties. It also comes under the remit of the DOH, whereas the charities Bill is under the remit of the Minister for Civil Society and the Cabinet Office. My Bill, at its heart, goes to the fact that the original Act on the Peter Pan royalties and the extension to the signed copyright patent was unique—so that unique bit of legislation needed another unique bit of legislation.

Sixteen of the charitable trusts have chosen either to revert to a corporate trustee model or to become independent. Most hospital charities operate the corporate trustee model anyway, and we have heard a lot about that today. Many have indicated that they are seeking to make this transition and many others are also considering it.

Six charities have already completed the transition to independence. These include Barts Charity, which raises money for Barts Health NHS Trust, including St Bartholomew’s hospital. This was the first to receive an independence order. The others are Alder Hey in Liverpool, Birmingham Children’s Hospital Charity, which is close to my own constituency of Aldridge-Brownhills, Guy’s and St Thomas’ Charity, and the Royal Brompton and Harefield Hospitals Charity. They are all now able to benefit from greater independence and less bureaucracy, and that further demonstrates the benefits of the Bill. Great Ormond Street’s is one of the six to have converted to independence. I will come back to that, as well as to its unique status and the need for

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specific legislative change to remove the statutory obstacle currently preventing the charity from becoming fully independent. Of the remaining NHS charities, about half have agreed to convert to independence but have not yet formally informed the Department of Health, while the others are in discussion with their trustees and hospital boards.

Importantly, the Bill is supported by Great Ormond Street hospital and NHS charities more generally. It also has the support of the Association of NHS Charities, and I would like to put on the record my thanks to it for its help. Let me provide a quote from a chief executive of an NHS charity, as that is a good way of explaining why the Bill is important. This chief executive said that

“this is exactly the right move for us as it deals with a peculiar anomaly in our status. Moving to full independence will mean that we can compete on a level playing field with other health and social care charities in our fund raising and other activities. No longer being seen as part of government.”

On Report, we received some interesting amendments from hon. Members, who gave us the opportunity to explore and question a number of points in relation to the Bill. Although I am pleased they were not pressed to a vote and accepted, I believe each was worthy of our sincere consideration.

Turning now to the second part of the Bill, it is important to remind ourselves of the special link that Great Ormond Street hospital has with J.M. Barrie, who made a very generous bequest to it of the right of royalties to the “Peter Pan” stories. As I explained on Second Reading, J.M. Barrie bequeathed all rights to “Peter Pan” to GOSH in 1929. He died in 1937, with GOSH enjoying a further 50 years of royalties. On the eve of the copyright expiring, the J.M. Barrie bequest acquired its unique legal status as a direct result of Lord Callaghan’s amendments to the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. That reserved royalty income to the hospital trust and carried the stipulation of the creation of a special trust at that time. Though now held in perpetuity by GOSH, legislation is needed to enable the receipt of royalties to move to the new, independent Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity. My Bill, with its provision for amendments to the 1988 Act, will do that. It will enable GOSH to take full advantage of this move to independent status, thereby giving it greater freedom to attract additional funding. It will also reduce the burden of bureaucracy by leaving it under the sole jurisdiction of the Charity Commission.

I am sure Members will be interested to know that I have met representatives from the GOSH Children’s Charity, and, as I reported on Second Reading, I have visited the hospital to see for myself the work the charity does and the huge contribution it makes. I have also met members of staff and clinicians to hear about some of the cutting-edge research and treatments they are working on. My visit to GOSH further emphasised the importance of this Bill. One cannot go there and fail to be touched by the work that goes on there, the commitment, the dedication and the inspiration—it is truly amazing, as indeed is the work of all our NHS hospitals and charities.

As we all know, the work and influence of Great Ormond Street children’s hospital stretches way beyond Greater London, which is why so many Members are in the Chamber to support and watch the progress of this

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Bill. In the financial year 2014-15, the GOSH charity raised a staggering £80,981,000, an increase on the previous year’s figure.

In November, I am sure that avid newspaper readers will have noticed that The Independent and the Evening Standard launched their Gift to GOSH Christmas appeal, attracting celebrity backing as well as a pledge from my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to match donations pound for pound from the Treasury with up to £1.5 million. I am fortunate enough to have an update from Great Ormond Street hospital, which tells me that to date £2.7 million has been raised as a result of that appeal. That reflects the warmth felt by the British public towards Great Ormond Street, as well as their generosity. The campaign still has not ended—it runs until 14 February—so who knows what the final total will be. Those funds are going to support things such as paediatric research and a new specialist unit for children with heart failure.

One of the most generous donors over the years has been, of course, J. M. Barrie, whose bequest of the royalties from “Peter Pan” is one of the reasons we are here today. It is amazing that even today, 79 years after the death of Barrie, the bequest is still a crucial source of income to the charity, which demonstrates that “Peter Pan” remains a firm favourite of us all. I must confess that I watched it over Christmas and, as one might expect, the book has had a permanent place on my desk for number of months. It is probably in my handbag in the Chamber today.

By supporting the Bill today, I believe that we are all doing a little bit to help the work of Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity by securing the J.M. Barrie income stream for the new independent charity. Without this Bill, it would be unable fully to complete its conversion to independent charity status. Without it, I believe that there could be risks to legacies to the charity, and I would not wish to see that happen. It also creates further complications, because operating two charities side-by-side requires a duplication of governance, separate accounts and, potentially, duplicate returns to the Charity Commission. The Bill is not just needed, it is wanted, and Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity has confirmed this. It is also supported by the chair of the hospital trust, Baroness Blackstone, who I must also thank for her support, and the charity’s chair of trustees.

To summarise my Bill, it has received support from Members on both sides of the Chamber, for which I am grateful, from Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity and from the Association of NHS Charities. It delivers on commitments that followed a Department of Health review and consultation on the governance of NHS charities, whereby charities were given the opportunity to seek greater independence under the sole regulation of the Charity Commission and the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees were no longer necessary. It paves the way for sensible housekeeping.

We listened to some interesting amendments today that enabled further scrutiny of the Bill, for which I am grateful. I hope that this Bill, which I have believed in from the outset, does not end up in Neverland but heads out of this Chamber across Central Lobby to land safely on the Red Benches of the other place to continue its passage. I commend the Bill to the House.

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1.28 pm

Barbara Keeley: As we have heard, this Bill will improve the independence of NHS charitable trusts, and I am pleased to speak on Third Reading. As we have also heard, Great Ormond Street hospital provides essential care for many children in the UK and across the world through its research into many child health issues. I am glad that the Bill will ensure that the trust charity will continue to be able to benefit in perpetuity from royalties and other payments in relation to performances or publications of the play “Peter Pan”. I can assure the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) that the hospital’s research and care stretch well beyond Greater London.

The Bill will also remove the requirement for the Secretary of State for Health to appoint trustees of NHS charities. I hope that reducing the involvement of the Department of Health in NHS charities will provide the organisations with more freedom to grow, and with clear independence. I hope they will be able to attract additional donors; that is important for NHS charities such as the Salford Royal NHS Foundation Trust, which I mentioned earlier. The research that it has helped to fund spans a wide range of departments, from physiotherapy and urology to a joint project with the University of Manchester looking at factors that lead to complications for patients with type 2 diabetes. That shows what an important role our NHS charities can play in potentially life-saving research. Like many others, the charity has also focused on improving patients’ experience in the hospital. Equipment has been purchased by the charity to aid patients in their recovery. For example, the charity purchased reclining chairs for patients recovering from neurosurgery, which enable them to sit in a more comfortable posture.

NHS charities play a significant role in our hospital trusts. They provide funds for life-saving research and help NHS staff to provide the best care possible for patients and their families. On behalf on the official Opposition, I am pleased to support the Bill on Third Reading. It will help to ensure that NHS charities can continue their vital work supporting patients and staff in the NHS.

1.30 pm

Nigel Huddleston: I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on choosing to introduce this important Bill. I felt compelled to speak today because I do not think my children would ever have forgiven me if I had failed to speak in a debate on a Bill dubbed the Peter Pan and Wendy Bill.

In supporting the Bill, I am reminded of the remarks of one of my predecessors as the MP for Mid Worcestershire, the late Eric Forth, who said that for a private Member’s Bill to be successful, it should essentially be uncontroversial and fairly obvious. By my reckoning at least, this Bill solidly passes that test. It has support not just from this House, but from NHS charities and their representative bodies. It will help to deliver the operating model they require and the freedom that the charities themselves have asked for. It should give them greater independence and greater money-raising potential. As my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills mentioned, although the Great Ormond Street Children’s Charity is deservedly the most famous,

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there are 260 such charities around the country with around £2 billion of assets and a combined income of more than £340 million a year. Many are large, but many are small, including, in Worcestershire, the local NHS charity, the Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust Charitable Fund.

The work of the charitable fund, like many NHS charities, is to go over and above current NHS provision and improve the experiences of all patients within Worcestershire and the surrounding areas. One of the fund’s recent appeals is the £1.6 million Rory the Robot appeal, with funds raised going towards the cost of a state-of-the-art da Vinci robotic surgical system, primarily to treat patients with prostate cancer. In Worcestershire alone, 125 to 150 radical prostate cancer operations are carried out each year, and there are approximately 2,500 men in the region surviving prostate cancer at any one time. There is an obvious need that the charity is helping to fill.

People from our region and beyond have got behind this campaign. In September last year, more than 80 cyclists from across the county were joined by Team GB star Hannah Drewett on three cycle routes to raise money for the Rory the Robot appeal. There have also been charity golf days, a theatrical extravaganza and even a local production of “The Full Monty”; hon. Members will be relieved to know that that show was in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Karen Lumley) and not mine, so fortunately I was not required to participate.

This Bill fulfils a Government commitment made in 2014 following a 2012 consultation. Respondents to the consultation were clear that, first, they wanted NHS charities to be allowed to convert to independent status, should they choose to, and secondly, that the powers of the Secretary of State for Health to appoint trustees to NHS bodies should be removed. NHS charities were concerned that the current legislative framework was limiting their freedom to grow, develop and raise money. Change was therefore clearly needed.

In conclusion, I am very pleased that my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills has brought forward this Bill. She has given the House the opportunity to deliver what NHS charities want. If we divide, I will support the Bill, and I encourage all Members present to do the same.

1.34 pm

Maggie Throup: I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on getting this very important Bill to its Third Reading, and I am delighted to support it in this debate. It is great to see a private Member’s Bill get to this stage with the support of everybody in the House.

As I have said in this place before, our nation would be a poorer place without the thousands of charities and trustees who contribute their time and expertise without fear or favour. Close to my heart are the many hospital-related charities that play such an important role in supporting our free-at-the-point-of-care national health service, which has served us so well. It is vital that those charities are allowed to conduct their amazing work with as few barriers as possible.

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I am often asked by people in this place and elsewhere, “Where exactly is Erewash?” My reply is that it is in Derbyshire, between Derby and Nottingham; for that reason, many of my constituents end up going to Nottingham hospitals for their care, as well as to Royal Derby hospital and our local Ilkeston community hospital. I know that my constituents will be pleased that I am supporting this Bill, as it will have an impact on the nearby Nottingham Hospitals Charity, which raises money to improve facilities and fund new equipment. It provides important additional services, supports staff development, and initiates local medical research at Queen’s medical centre and Nottingham children’s hospital, as well as at City hospital, Ropewalk house, and Hayward house. On its website, the charity outlines that

“thanks to the generosity…of its donors and fundraisers, it is able to fund the ‘added extras’ to make the experience of being in hospital better for people of all ages.”

It truly is at the heart of care for patients.

Examples of how the charity’s money has been spent include £15,000 for a heart function monitor for sick children, which helped to save the life of a six-month-old baby within hours of its being installed; £1.1 million for better ward facilities for children with cancer; £150,000 to kick-start medical research projects with the aim of improving treatment and services for a whole host of conditions and diseases; and £2.1 million towards a new centre to transform the care of cystic fibrosis patients. The charity currently has two main ongoing appeals: first, raising funds for an on-site helipad at Queen’s medical centre, which is the east midlands’ trauma centre; and secondly, raising money for a beautiful and serene courtyard garden for those suffering with ear, nose and throat cancer.

No doubt the general public would think that Nottingham Hospitals Charity, like the majority of charities, is free to appoint its own trustees, but under current legislation this is likely not to be the case. Yet nearby in Ilkeston, at our community hospital, there is a very active league of friends that does have complete freedom to appoint its own trustees. We have heard today about the good work of leagues of friends across the whole country, and Ilkeston community hospital’s is no exception. It raises money with the same aims as Nottingham Hospitals Charity—to fund the added extras to make the experience of being in hospital better for people of all ages. It is also at the heart of care for in-patients and out-patients at Ilkeston community hospital.

The league of friends is a dedicated group of people who, in addition to making cups of tea for patients and visitors, hold a wide array of fundraising events. For a busy person anywhere near Ilkeston next December, I recommend that they visit the Christmas fair, as I am sure there will be a stall there, as there was last December, selling really nice Christmas cakes. As I had not had time to make my Christmas cake, one of those cakes saved my life; the people who came to my house were able to sample its delights. Recent fundraising has resulted in the charity buying a scanner for the Valerie Jackson scanner suite at the hospital, to name just one successful project that the group has supported.

So why do we need this Bill? As I see it, there are three main disadvantages to the current structure of NHS charitable trust status. First, potential donors may perceive that the charities lack independence from Government, and that may put them off donating. Secondly, being

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bound by legislation prevents the charities from adopting different legal forms specific to their needs, particularly those offering limited liability. Thirdly, the Charities Commission believes that dual regulation under both NHS and charity legislation makes it difficult for NHS charities to achieve and demonstrate independence. It is therefore vital that NHS charities have the opportunity to move to independent charity status. My constituents in Erewash, like so many others across the UK, are extremely generous in their support for charities. It is important that every barrier, whether perceived or real, is removed, to allow maximum generosity and altruism.

I want to touch on Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity. As my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills has said, despite the hospital’s location in London, and due to the specialist nature of its work, it provides a truly national resource for children with some of the most severe and complex illnesses imaginable. I am sure that at least one child in at least one family in every constituency has benefited from the healthcare provided by Great Ormond Street hospital. Like every hospital, whether generalist or specialist, it has fantastic doctors and nurses, and a whole host of healthcare professionals who together make our NHS the envy of the world. I am sure that the whole House will agree that we owe them a great debt of gratitude for the work they do.

A number of years ago, I had the privilege of seeing at first hand, in a professional capacity, the work of Great Ormond Street hospital. We often see news of the groundbreaking work it does. There was a good news story recently about the innovative work carried out on gene editing, which means that a one-year-old girl is now in remission from blood cancer. That is fantastic news for the girl and her family, and it also gives hope to other families in similar situations. I am sure that, without J. M. Barrie’s generous and powerful donation of the rights of “Peter Pan” to Great Ormond Street, such work would not be possible.

The first time this Bill came before this House, I was rightly corrected by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) when I suggested that J. M. Barrie would have been cheering from the Gallery if he had been able to hear that his wishes are to be continued as a result of this Bill. My hon. Friend pointed out that the good author would have been ruled out of order for cheering from the Gallery, but I am sure he would have been cheering very quietly if he had been here today.

The Bill provides for some much-needed changes to legislation, and it will benefit NHS charities generally and Great Ormond Street hospital specifically. I commend it to the House.

1.42 pm

Kevin Foster: It is a delight to be called to speak in this Third Reading debate. I will keep my remarks relatively short, given the time.

It is a delight to speak again about the “Peter Pan” Bill promoted by Wendy. Although it is amusing to allude to “Peter Pan”, this debate is backed up by the serious work done by the charities affected. Securing the royalties for the future will ensure that one of the world’s best places for treating sick children—a place that does groundbreaking work and allows people who

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would otherwise not have survived to see their adult years, not to mention to have a full chance in life—will be able to continue. That is so important, which is why I am pleased to support the Bill.

The Bill also sends a powerful message about the independence of charities. The charities affected will not be seen as arm’s length parts of Government, but as independent organisations that offer something additional to what the NHS provides. I opposed a number of amendments because they were not in keeping with the Bill’s golden thread: the idea that NHS charities are independent organisations that add extra to the NHS, not arm’s length Government bodies trying to collect donations to do what many people feel the NHS should either be doing already or look to do in the future.

I know from my experience of working with charities that work closely with the NHS—I touched on that earlier—that some of the fears associated with the independent status of the charities are false. Many charities work very well in collaboration with local authorities, the NHS and other public sector bodies to deliver services and make a difference in their communities. That is what this Bill will fundamentally allow such charities to do.

It has absolutely been worth while giving the Bill the level of scrutiny it has received today, given that the Committee was truncated by the Syria debate. It is important to send to the other place a very strong message about our support for the Bill, the fact that it makes sense to enact it, and the fact that it should not head off into the Neverland of endless debate, but should in due course receive Royal Assent.

The Bill is the right step to take with regard to monitoring NHS charities. It frees them from being part of the Government, but not from the overall provisions regulating charities, or from the overall duties of trustees under laws passed in Parliament. The charities will still have to follow those laws and are not free to do anything they want to, but they can say to someone who is honestly thinking of making a donation, “We are not part of the Government or an arm’s length part of an NHS organisation; we are an independent charity that provides extra services to support the work of the NHS and the local hospital to which we are affiliated.” What the Torbay Hospital League of Friends does in my constituency should be done across the whole country.

It has been a pleasure to be in the Chamber today, and to speak on Third Reading. I hope that it will not be necessary to have a Division, but that the Bill will receive unanimous support from all parts of the House.

1.46 pm

Seema Kennedy: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) and commend her efforts in bringing the Bill to Third Reading.

Clauses 1 and 2 remove the Secretary of State’s power to appoint trustees to certain NHS bodies, which is only right and proper. Many charities predate the national health service, and even the hospitals and hospices that they now support. They are deeply rooted in their communities, and they receive strong and consistent support from the towns and villages they serve. It is therefore only right that local people, not the Secretary of State in Whitehall, should decide who sits as trustees.

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The Bill responds to calls from charities about how they should be regulated. They have said that they want to grow and develop freely. We all know how different fundraising is from when we were growing up, in the days of jumble sales and potato pie—bring your own fork—suppers. Charities need to compete with others for people’s time, attention and, crucially, money, so they need to be nimble.

Clause 1 gives charities independence from the Government, which is important if they are to appeal to the widest possible range of donors. I am especially thinking of local health charities, such St Catherine’s Hospice Care and the Rosemere Cancer Foundation, which so ably serve my constituents in South Ribble. Independence from the Government can only enhance their reputations, and thereby their fundraising potential.

Clause 3 has given the Bill the name by which posterity will no doubt remember it—the Peter Pan and Wendy Bill. Many Members will remember the Disney version of the “Peter Pan” story, with comedy pirates and a flying fairy—Great Ormond Street hospital has benefited greatly from that retelling of the tale in its myriad merchandised and marketed forms—but anyone who saw the 2015 version of the film “Pan” will recognise a much darker side, with orphaned boys left to fend for themselves in a poorhouse by joining a gang. J.M. Barrie, who lived in Edinburgh and London in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, will have seen such boys around him every day. The story starts so sadly, but the conclusion is a happy one, with Peter and the lost boys adopted by the Darling family.

Barrie did not have children of his own, but was determined that, in real life as well as in fiction, the children of London and, indeed, of the whole of the UK, should have better lives. He had love, respect and, most importantly, hope for children. His great hope was that their lives be better than those of the lost boys. Such a hope lives on in the heart of every parent and in the heart of every child treated at Great Ormond Street hospital. The Bill will embed that hope for the future. With the Bill, we honour Barrie’s legacy today. I am delighted to support it on Third Reading.

1.49 pm

Mrs Sheryll Murray: I will be as brief as possible, Madam Deputy Speaker. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on her expert stewardship in guiding the Bill through Report to Third Reading.

I must declare a special interest as a former doctors’ receptionist in my constituency for more than 20 years. I witnessed several occasions when patients needed treatment that was not classed as a priority, but was naturally very important to them. This is where NHS charities can play, and have played, a vital role.

I also pay tribute to the Seafarers Hospital Society and commend the work it does. It was established about 200 years ago and still provides services to seafarers and fishermen at the Dreadnought unit in St Thomas’s hospital, just across the Thames. It provides vital services for those very brave men who operate in very dangerous conditions.

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We must not forget the wonderful work, which many Members have mentioned today, of the leagues of friends, which provide comfort and support to patients and their families, often at difficult times in their lives. Staff in my South East Cornwall constituency and across the country benefit considerably from their work.

I want briefly to mention the way in which the family of one of my constituents benefited directly from the amazing work of Great Ormond Street’s charitable fund. It meant that essential treatment was provided to their daughter at a critical time. I put on the record my thanks to Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity and to the hospital and its staff for their work at what was a very difficult time for that young lady and for improving her life so considerably.

There are some outstanding NHS charities in the south-west. Obviously, I could not sit down without mentioning the fantastic work of Cornwall Partnership NHS Financial Trust charitable fund and Plymouth Hospitals General Charity, which enables Plymouth Hospitals NHS Trust to improve services for patients, many of whom are my constituents.

To conclude, I warmly welcome the Bill and offer my support and congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills. Her vision and tenacity will help NHS charities to continue, thrive and evolve.

1.52 pm

Jane Ellison: We have had a productive debate on this Bill. I thank hon. Members from both sides of the House for their contributions—well, there was a contribution from the Opposition Front Bench—and put on the record my appreciation of the consensual way in which the Bill has been approached by all parties. This has been a welcome opportunity to name-check a number of excellent local charities and some well-loved characters from fiction.

As others have done, I put on the record my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) for her dedication to piloting the Bill through the House. She has put a great deal of time and effort into understanding the issues that face charities. She has met the Association of NHS Charities, attended the annual business meeting for its members and wrestled with the complexities of charity law and its relationship with NHS legislation. I am sure that the House will join me in thanking her for her dedication to ensuring that the Bill has made such great progress.

Although I do not want to repeat what my hon. Friend has said, I will quickly summarise the aim of each of the measures in the Bill. The Bill completes the reform of the regulation and governance of NHS charities. It delivers the Government’s commitment to repeal at the first opportunity the Secretary of State’s powers in England to appoint trustees to NHS bodies and special trustees. Those powers are no longer needed. NHS charities can choose to become independent under the sole regulation of the Charity Commission or remain as NHS charities with the linked trust as corporate trustee, in which case they are subject to dual regulation by the Charity Commission and the Secretary of State.

The reform of NHS charity regulation and governance delivers the changes that NHS charities have asked for. A number of the largest ones, which we have spoken about in the course of this debate, have made it clear

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that they need those changes. The Charity Commission believes that dual regulation—being under both NHS and charity law—can make it difficult for NHS charities to achieve and demonstrate independence. That is why in 2014, following the public consultation, the Department announced its intention to allow NHS charities to move to independent charity status under charity law. Charities that decide to become independent are no longer NHS charities, but independent charities that appoint their own trustees.

The Department also made it clear in its response that, given the new freedom for NHS charities to become independent, the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees were no longer necessary. The charities with trustees appointed by the Secretary of State need to decide whether to move to independence or revert to corporate trustee status before the powers are removed. Independence is not an option solely for NHS charities with trustees appointed by the Secretary of State. Many of the charities that we have discussed with corporate trustee arrangements are large enough to be able to consider independence as a viable option for the future. Corporate trustees should also actively consider whether independence is in the best interests of their beneficiaries.

The Department has indicated that the powers to appoint trustees will not be revoked before April 2018 to provide a period of grace for trustees appointed by the Secretary of State to determine the most appropriate legal form for their charity.

Should any NHS charity not have resolved its future by the time the powers are repealed, the Bill confers powers on the Secretary of State to make regulations to transfer charitable property from the trustees of an NHS trust or NHS foundation trust to the trust itself. There are strong grounds for believing that those powers will not need to be exercised. However, it is necessary to take such powers to ensure that all NHS charitable assets are appropriately protected and dealt with before the powers for the Secretary of State to appoint trustees are repealed.

The Government have listened to NHS charities and delivered what they asked for: the choice to become independent under the sole regulation of the Charity Commission or to remain NHS charities. Some of the largest and most successful have already taken the opportunity to become independent; others are preparing to follow in their wake. The vast majority of NHS charities with trustees appointed by the Secretary of State have indicated that they intend to become independent. All are actively considering the legal form that most favours their beneficiaries. It is therefore clear that the Government’s decision to repeal the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees at the earliest legislative

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opportunity is right. The powers are no longer necessary and should therefore be removed from the statute book.

As we have heard from the measure’s promoter, the Bill will also secure Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity’s rights in perpetuity to royalties from performances and publications of the play “Peter Pan”. The hospital has always relied on public support, even after the founding of the NHS in 1948. It is important that that can continue.

The mission of Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity is to raise money to enable the hospital to continue to provide the very best care for its young patients and their families and to do all the groundbreaking work that we have heard about in the debate. Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity was eager to take the opportunity to become independent and it became partially independent on 1 April 2015. However, it was unable to complete its conversion to become an independent charity as the NHS charity had to remain in existence until the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 was amended, to avoid its statutory rights to “Peter Pan” royalties being lost. The Bill confers the rights to royalties from the play “Peter Pan” on the new independent charity for Great Ormond Street hospital.

The two parts of the Bill are very much related in that Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity needs to be able to complete its conversion to independent status without losing its rights to the “Peter Pan” royalties so that the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees to NHS bodies may be repealed. The Government would not remove those powers until the charity no longer needed its Secretary of State-appointed trustees to receive royalties from “Peter Pan”.

The Bill is about completing the reform that NHS charities asked for. The Government have enabled NHS charities to become independent if they decide that that is in the best interests of their beneficiaries. Great Ormond Street hospital is one of the most cherished institutions in the NHS. The royalties from the play “Peter Pan” have been a hugely valuable source of funds for Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity in its support of the amazing work that we have heard about today. We want the charity to continue to receive those royalties in perpetuity, as J.M. Barrie would have wished. The Bill will secure the charity’s rights to the royalties from the play “Peter Pan”, enabling it to complete its conversion to an independent charity.

My hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills has shown, in steering the Bill so ably through the House, what we all know from our childhoods: Peter Pan and Wendy make a great team.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.

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Local Area Referendum (Disposal of School Playing Fields) Bill

Second Reading

1.59 pm

Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

On 29 June 2015 when I first introduced this Bill, we were coming up to our great British summer. It is a time when we see increased use of our open spaces for sports such as tennis and—more importantly, in my view—cricket, as well as walking and other activities. The Bill’s Second Reading comes at the start of the new year, when everyone has probably eaten a little too much over Christmas and is motivated to kick the year off by exercising, or perhaps by joining a new club or team—organisations that take pride in using local pitches and playing field facilities. Dare I mention last year’s rugby world cup? Although England did not make the final rounds, many young people were captivated, and the players of tomorrow are now halfway through the rugby union season.

School playing fields are a vital part of local life, and in many cases they bring together communities through their use by local sports teams, as well as by school pupils at breaks, lunchtimes and PE lessons. The Bill will give residents a real say over the future of their local recreational ground—something that currently is explicitly limited to a local authority decision.

Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): I am sure that we all have a degree of sympathy with the aim of this Bill. My hon. Friend just said that such matters are down to the local authority, but that is not quite the case. There is already a rigorous process, and a whole raft of protocols, hoops and public consultation to go through before the Secretary of State gives their consent for a disposal. In the light of those already strict criteria, does my hon. Friend think that this Bill is a little like overkill?

Tom Pursglove: My hon. Friend and I agree on many things but not on that point. The facts speak for themselves. Between 2001 and 2010, there were 242 disposals of school playing field land, and there have been 103 since 2010. I have great confidence in communities making decisions that are right for their area. For example, neighbourhood planning has been a positive step forward because it has allowed local people to determine the vision for their area. There is a lack of confidence in the way that the system currently works, and particularly in the mechanisms that work through the Department for Education, and as I said, a number of playing fields have been disposed of. Ultimately, once those spaces are gone they are gone for good, and I will return to that point later in my remarks.

Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way, and he and I share the same county council. I am rather surprised by the attitude of my hon. Friend the Member for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker), because he is speaking against Government policy. The Government are absolutely in favour of localism and in letting local people decide.

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I am not sure his remarks were very career-enhancing, and I want to support the Government and get this Bill on the statute book.

Tom Pursglove: I always appreciate the support of my hon. Friend and neighbour on these matters.

In late November 2013, Public Health England launched the “Healthy People Healthy Places” programme, which aims to help improve health and wellbeing through better planning and design, and to reduce the impact of poor physical and natural environments. The priorities include incorporating physical activity, such as brisk walking and cycling, into everyday life and creating an environment where people actively choose to be mobile as part of their routine. That can have a significant effect on public health, by reducing inequalities in personal health.

The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence—it is shame that the Health Minister is no longer in her place—estimates that physical inactivity costs the national economy £8.2 billion a year, which is a significant sum. It is therefore ironic that although successive Governments have promoted the importance of healthy living and the role that sport and walking plays in that, there has been a dwindling amount of open space in which to get out and get active, and an increasing number of playing fields have been sold.

Clearly, open spaces such as school playing fields are key to getting people active, and as many people as possible should have access to this land. Indeed, there are many excellent examples all over the country where schools open their doors and their grounds for use by the community, both out of term-time and out of school hours. In too many cases, however, the land is being sold off by public bodies for development purposes.

John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): My hon. Friend is making an interesting case, but does he not agree that the provisions in the National Planning Policy Framework mean that no school is able to get rid of any playing fields unless a suitable replacement is found elsewhere and there will not be a net loss of playing field provision to that school?

Tom Pursglove: I will make some progress, but I will come on to the specific issue of replacement later on in my remarks.

At the moment, the Government are being very bold in their commitment to additional housebuilding and the right to buy. Indeed, as the Minister knows, in Northamptonshire—not only in the county, but in my constituency—we are at the forefront when it comes to building new homes. In fact, Corby is the fastest-growing town in the whole country, a clear sign of our strong and stable economy built under a Conservative Government and evidence of the fact that our area has been quite ambitious in grappling with the Government’s agenda and in trying to support housebuilding where we can. I am, however, a very firm believer—in all the time I spent in local government prior to entering this House, I continued to stress this point—that alongside housebuilding there must always be the infrastructure in place to support it. By selling off school playing fields, not only do we lose the space for schools to expand—Education Ministers openly acknowledge the fact that we have far too many landlocked schools, and

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this is a particular concern to my constituents in Oundle—but with housing growth we inevitably need more open space and greater pitch provision to meet growing local need.

Clearly, land for housing should be chosen carefully and not at the expense of land that exists to serve the local community. As such, the Bill comes at a good time to help to safeguard school playing field land. On a number of occasions since my election in May 2015, I have referenced a local case where Northamptonshire County Council has been working towards selling off part of the playing field at the site of Oundle Primary School. This has been met with huge opposition not only from local residents but from Oundle Town Council and East Northamptonshire Council. Unfortunately, this work is still ongoing, but luckily the local campaign against it continues to sustain its momentum. Indeed, the petition has now received over 4,000 signatories and is still growing—bear in mind that this is a town of 4,500 people. This point comes back to an earlier intervention: there is such overwhelming support for the playing field land not to be sold that it is wrong to ignore that fact through the statutory processes that exist.

I am led to believe that the case will go before the Secretary of State for Education to decide whether this playing field can be sold off. I am in the process of drafting my very strongly worded submission against the sale and I hope the Secretary of State will take it, and the monumental scope of the local campaign, into account when reaching her decision. The playing field continues to be well used by Oundle Primary School. Over the years, many sports clubs have used the land to fulfil weekend fixtures, and weekend and week-night training opportunities for adults and young people. The land will continue to be well used by the local community, as long as it is retained for that particular purpose. There is a real lack of sports provision, pitches and green open space in Oundle for people to get out there and get active. In Northamptonshire, we are already plagued by a situation in which far too many sports teams have to go out of county to fulfil home fixtures. That is very, very wrong. They should be able to play their home games in the vicinity of where they come from.

Craig Whittaker: I think there is a bit of confusion here. Prior to 2010, of course, the process my hon. Friend talks about was in place. Since 2010, however, the rules on the disposal of playing fields have been changed. The Secretary of State makes the final decision. He or she will take into account the statutory six-week consultation, four of which have to be in term-time. They will take into account local people’s views and they will say yes to disposing of them only if the sporting needs, not just of the particular school but neighbouring schools, are taken into account.

Tom Pursglove: That is a welcome step forward, but I maintain that it does not go far enough. How can it be right that 4,000 residents in a town could be ignored in the system? We have a referendum if council tax is put up above a certain level. I think it makes sense to have a referendum if local people are getting out there, getting motivated and running a well-organised campaign. That should be acknowledged, but I will come back to the detail later.

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It is important that I say a huge thank you to Julie Grove and the Oundle recreation and green spaces committee for their efforts in support of the Oundle campaign and to the recently started campaign, through the same auspices, to save Fletton field, which is a hot topic locally. The committee is not only continuing the fight to save Oundle Primary School’s playing field, but turning its attention to Fletton field, which is a community field for which Oundle Town Council has recently submitted an application for village green status. Around the same time, Northamptonshire County Council submitted an application to build 13 houses, with no prior consultation with the community, despite its being a well-used piece of land.

My Bill seeks to improve the consultation with communities when land is up for sale or when that is being considered by a local authority. Presumably, the county council is attempting to attract the best value for this land, which planning permission would help it to achieve, but in doing so it has shown no regard for the village green application. I find that unacceptable. How can it be right that the wishes of the local community can be ridden roughshod over and the land sold against its wishes?

I turn now to another part of my constituency. I was pleased when, at the end of last year, Kings Cliffe Active, a sports and recreation complex set on a 12-acre site in the village of Kings Cliffe, secured a grant of £74,000 from Sport England. The grant will go towards building and maintaining new tennis and netball courts. The case of Kings Cliffe Active demonstrates that grants and support are available for sports provision and that the demand is clearly there, and I was delighted to visit this fantastic sporting facility to discuss its plan just prior to Christmas.

On a national level, I have spoken to many supportive right. hon. and hon. Members from across the House about similar issues in their constituencies. In fact, if one googles “MPs and playing fields”, one will find that many colleagues have championed local cases such as the one I am helping with in Oundle. The evidence is there and plain to see. I have also been contacted by an astounding number of local associations, sports clubs, charities and other organisations wanting to share their experiences and express their support for the Bill. In particular, I would like to thank Meryl Smith, the secretary of the National Playing Fields Association, for her continued help and support.

Interestingly, a national petition has also been set up in support of the Bill asking the Government to do almost exactly the same thing as the Bill seeks to do. This further demonstrates the strength of feeling not just in my area, but across the country. I thank James Allen Hardaker for his work setting up the petition.

I turn to the crux of the Bill. It seeks to build on the localism agenda and the Government’s excellent measures around protecting assets of community value. It would enshrine it in the law that should a public body wish to sell off school playing fields, it must go through a statutory consultation. One of the biggest complaints is that consultation on these sales nationally has been shockingly woeful. I propose, therefore, that should a verifiable percentage of electors in any ward who are specially and directly affected sign a petition, it would trigger a local referendum, the result of which would be

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binding for up to 10 years. Essentially, this would provide a genuine localist lock and ensure that the strength of local feeling is reflected in the decision taken.

John Glen: Does my hon. Friend not concede that in some communities across the community an important case could be made for increasing provision in a school area and moving additional provision elsewhere and that this might be popular in terms of the school’s development, but that it could come up against opposition from people familiar with that space near the school? Is there not a risk of allowing vexatious and bureaucratic processes to enter into the system, when the National Planning Policy Framework already contains safeguards?

Tom Pursglove: I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution, which raises an important point—one that I intended to reach in a few seconds’ time. He has pre-empted what I was about to say. Clearly, there are concerns about that, which I shall address as part of my remarks.

At the moment, I believe that the provisions on neighbourhood planning in the National Planning Policy Framework are not yet tested and tried sufficiently to know for sure that they are watertight in respect of these issues. As I say, where such an overwhelming strength of local feeling can be demonstrated, local people should ultimately have a right of veto.

In other words, the Bill is designed to prevent a situation in which the 4,000 people in Oundle or electors anywhere in the country can be ignored in the way that they have been in the past. In short, this is about a community right to veto any proposal to sell a playing field where the local community feels strongly that doing so is not in the best interests of the area.

Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con): My hon. Friend is delivering a most interesting speech. Would this right of veto be absolute if, say, a piece of national infrastructure were planned and the school attached to the playing fields was going to be closed? Would a referendum still apply in those circumstances or apply only if it were intended that the school would continue?

Tom Pursglove: I thank my hon. Friend, who always asks very difficult questions. A number of particular regulations are specified in the Bill that would require the Department for Communities and Local Government to do some consultation work. We could get to the crux of that sort of issue in a Bill Committee. Ministers would need to look at the provisions in some detail to get the Bill right. I am not saying that I have all the answers already. I view the Bill as offering a broad outline of something that could be done to provide greater protection for school playing field land. As for the finer regulatory details that would need to play a part in this, it is important to take account of the various case studies up and down the country and ensure that the arrangements are right.

Let me return to the issue of provision elsewhere. The Bill does not seek to stop the selling of playing fields per se. It merely allows those who use these important green spaces to make the case for them to be kept, and to have a real say over the decision. If, of course, it can be

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demonstrated that the benefits from selling any such land, such as a new school being built with equal or upgraded facilities or alternative provision being provided elsewhere as a direct swap, there is nothing to fear.

I am aware of a local case where this happened. In Kibworth in Leicestershire, David Wilson Homes was very keen to build a new development on a piece of land that included the site of the cricket club. An agreement was reached between the local community, the cricket club and the builders, which meant that the existing cricket club land was built on, but it was replaced elsewhere, delivering not only a better pavilion facility but an extra cricket square. There was a demonstrable benefit to the local community from that taking place, and local people came in behind that and supported it. I would not view that differently for anywhere else in the country where better facilities or direct swaps are being proposed. What we are seeing in Oundle, however, is the taking away of land in an area where there is limited open space for people to get out and get active.

Mr Bone: My hon. Friend is generous in giving way, and he is making a powerful and persuasive case. I would like to suggest that my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster), who made such a good intervention, should be a member of the Bill Committee after Second Reading. My hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Tom Pursglove) will know from his own experience of the lack of cricket pitches and playing fields in Northamptonshire. In fact, I have to travel to the next county to play home games for Wellingborough Old Grammarians. We really must stop unnecessary sales of playing fields. Has my hon. Friend had the same experience?

Tom Pursglove: My hon. Friend knows that I have had exactly that experience. I would be delighted to have my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) on the Bill Committee. He would bring a great deal of expertise, knowledge and interest to proceedings.

I think I have now dealt with the particular point about making alternative provision elsewhere. The balance is about right when it comes to protecting existing playing fields, but if enhancements and improvements can be delivered elsewhere, this Bill does not, of course, stand in the way of that happening.

Let me draw my remarks to a conclusion. The Bill is about ensuring that local communities have a genuine say and a real opportunity to influence the future shaping of their areas. It builds on many actions taken by the Government of which I am very proud, such as neighbourhood planning and community rights to bid and buy. Those initiatives have proved successful throughout the country, but I think the Bill would take that success a step further, and would be greatly welcomed everywhere.

Today I have stressed the health benefits and the community value that are associated with accessible school playing field land, but I hope that the Bill will also bring an end to the ignoring by public bodies and local authorities of local grassroots campaigns in which residents fight hard to protect their local playing fields. The Minister may claim that that the planning system and the Department for Education procedures provide specific protection for school playing fields, but I am afraid that, as I have said before, people out there in the country simply do not share that confidence, owing to both past and present experience.

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The outcome of the Oundle case remains to be seen, but I shall be submitting the strongest possible objection. People will be very disappointed if the sale is allowed. As I have said, there is already a lack of space, and members of the community are keen to become involved in trying to protect that piece of land. I have no fond memories of playing cricket on the site of Oundle Primary School, but I still think that the site has an important role in our community, and I want the land to be protected for cricketers—and, indeed, sportsmen of all kind—in the years to come.

I also think that the Bill is consistent with the Prime Minister’s localism agenda. It would provide a localist lock, and would put local people truly in the driving seat for perhaps the first time. We really do have a duty to protect school playing fields for future generations, and I commend the Bill to the House.

2.21 pm

Dr Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): I have some sympathy with the case presented by the hon. Member for Corby (Tom Pursglove). I think that Members on both sides of the House recognise the importance of school playing fields to the development of fitness in our young people, and also to the wider community. We want both sportsmen and sportswomen to benefit.

Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con): Given that the hon. Lady is now championing these sports fields, does she regret the fact that, according to research conducted by Fields in Trust, more than 2,500 were sold between 1997 and 2005? That is more than 26 sites per month.

Dr Blackman-Woods: I was just coming to that point. In 2004, the Labour Government introduced new measures to protect our school playing fields, and to ensure that such land was subject to a decision by the Secretary of State. The revised guidance contained a general presumption against the need to sell, dispose of or change the use of playing fields. It also maintained the existing presumptions that only sports pitches that were surplus to the needs of local schools and their communities should be sold, and all proceeds should be reinvested in the improvement of local sports facilities.

Furthermore, planning policy guidance note 17 sought to strengthen the protection of school playing fields through the planning system, and explained how such sites could be renewed, upgraded and extended to serve the needs of the whole community through dual use of facilities. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be delighted to know that, in 2012, the national planning policy framework updated some of the policy in PPG note 17, although not in quite as much detail as the hon. Member for Corby might like. The 2004 guidance was updated in May 2015, again to continue the protections that were already in place for school playing fields.

The Bill seeks to balance the power that rests with the Secretary of State with a greater say for the local community, and, as I have said, we strongly approve of that. However, it also provides for public consultation, a petition, and, if the threshold is met, a possible referendum. I think we should be given more detail about which members of the public will be consulted over what area, about who will pay for that, and about who will pay for

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the referendum if one is triggered. As we all know, local authorities, particularly in our more disadvantaged areas, are struggling because of Government cuts, and the Bill will obviously add to their responsibilities.

I wonder whether the hon. Member for Corby has concluded that the assets of community value provisions and neighbourhood planning are not quite up to the task of requiring greater consultation before there is a disposal of playing fields. They are clearly not adequate, or else he would not have to introduce this Bill. I also wonder whether he has looked at the provisions in the Housing and Planning Bill, under which, if a playing field is designated as brownfield, it could simply have permission in principle given to it, and it could be given planning permission for the development of housing without going through any process.

We very much agree with the sentiment behind the Bill. We would like to see greater community consultation before disposal is made, but some questions need to be asked.

2.26 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Marcus Jones): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Tom Pursglove) on securing this private Member’s Bill. I am afraid that while his aims at first glance seem laudable, for the reasons I am going to explain, the Government are not able to support this Bill.

School playing fields are important both as spaces for healthy exercise and as valuable community assets. That is why under existing legislation any local authority or school seeking to dispose of publicly funded school land must seek the Secretary of State for Education’s consent before doing so. The Government maintain particularly strict controls around the disposal of school playing field land. In addition, where a local authority is considering disposal of such an asset, the decision should be taken in an accountable and transparent manner.

Mr Bone: The Minister says that the Secretary of State will make a decision. Is he honestly saying that Secretaries of State will look at all these planning applications and make a decision—or is it bumped off to an official?

Mr Jones: I can reassure my hon. Friend that the decision is made by the Secretary of State, and the Secretary of State has to sign off any such disposal of playing field land. To reassure him further, I had a derelict site in my constituency. It had been a school a considerable number of years before and encompassed not a playing field but a playground. My local authority wanted to sell that land to fund new classrooms in a school with a playing field which was opposite that site. It took an inordinate amount of time for that process to take place, such is the high bar a local authority has to meet to dispose of a school playing field.

The planning system is concerned with the use and development of land. It has an important role to play in helping to achieve sustainable development through guiding land use change. Our national planning policy framework recognises that access to high-quality open spaces and opportunities for sport and recreation make

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an important contribution to the health and wellbeing of communities. The framework provides guidance for planning authorities in preparation of their local plans. It is also a material consideration in the determination of planning applications for individual development proposals. It states that planning policy should be based on robust and up-to-date assessments of needs for open space, sports and recreation facilities, and opportunities for new provision:

“Existing open space, sports and recreational buildings and land, including playing fields, should not be built on unless: an assessment has been undertaken which has clearly shown the open space, buildings or land to be surplus to requirements; or the loss resulting from the proposed development would be replaced by equivalent or better provision in terms of quantity and quality in a suitable location; or the development is for alternative sports and recreational provision, the needs for which clearly outweigh the loss.”

Existing open space sports and recreational buildings and land, including playing fields, should not be built on unless an assessment has been undertaken which has clearly shown that the open space, building and land is surplus to requirements; unless the loss resulting from the proposed development would be replaced by equivalent, or better, provision, in terms of quality or quantity, in a suitable location; or unless the development is for alternative sports and recreational provision, the needs for which clearly outweigh the loss. The importance of a robust evidence base is crucial to good planning and the achievement of sustainable development. We recognise the importance of open spaces, including playing fields, to communities—

2.30 pm

The debate stood adjourned (Standing Order No. 11(2)).

Ordered, That the debate be resumed on Friday 11 March.

Business without Debate

Railways Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 11 March.

Working time directive (limitation) Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 29 January.

Personal, social, health and economic education (statutory requirement) Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

22 Jan 2016 : Column 1748

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 11 March.

Department of Energy and Climate Change (Abolition) Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 11 March.

Crown Tenancies Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 29 January.

Benefit sanctions regime (entitlement to automatic hardship payments) Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 11 March.

Negligence and Damages Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 11 March.

No Fault divorce Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 11 March.

Marriage and civil Partnership REgistration (Mothers’ names) Bill

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object.

Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 5 February.