6.14 pm
John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): The police seem to be a popular subject in this House, as we have discussed them on several occasions, and I must say Labour’s arguments have not really moved on. Today’s debate gives me an opportunity to reiterate some comments and observations that I have made in previous such debates. It is important that we now look forward and not back. There are two key issues, one of which is financial and the other more general. The first is the police funding formula and the future consultation, and the second is leadership and innovation within police forces—new ideas and new thinking between them and within them.
On the police funding formula, the previous proposals were clearly not particularly popular in Cumbria. In fact, they would have had a devastating effect on the Cumbrian police force. I was very pleased when they were changed, because the support for retaining the Cumbrian police force is extremely strong within Cumbria. Therefore, the funding formula matters. If Cumbria is to retain an independent police force, the funding formula must be set out in a way that makes it financially viable. Under the proposed funding formula, that was clearly not the case, which is why I welcome the new consultation.
I accept that there are other possibilities. I referred earlier to the implementation of the Scottish formula, which saw the number of forces going down from eight to one. I think it is recognised that that was flawed and a mistake. In England, there are 43 forces. I know that there is a view that some of those could be merged or amalgamated, but that is not appropriate for Cumbria.
Cumbria is a large county in which local knowledge really does matter. It has a small population of half a million people. The terrain is challenging and the infrastructure poor, and the distance to major urban centres is considerable. As I have always said, the key issues are rurality and sparsity, and I very much hope that they will be central to the consultation on the funding formula going forward.
On leadership and innovation, I genuinely believe that the election of police and crime and commissioners has been an innovative and successful policy. It has been great for Cumbria. Richard Rhodes has been an excellent PCC. As we move forward, new PCCs will be elected and others will be re-elected. Things will improve, as PCCs innovate and bring the police force into the 21st century. I completely support the Government in
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that policy. I look forward to the new consultation, and we must make sure that a Cumbrian police force continues to exist.
6.17 pm
Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab): Many of my hon. Friends have spoken about the cuts to their local police force areas. Since 2010, the Northumbria police force has suffered some of the worst financial cuts of any force in the UK. I want to use what little time I have to share some of my personal stories, which show just how fantastic our police really are.
In my previous career as a child protection social worker, I was followed home by violent clients and, as a result, had security measures in my home. I was placed on high alert with the local police station and taken to and from work under secure guard.
I remember being pinned against the wall by an angry father while holding his screaming child in my arms. I remember being jumped on, attacked and punched in the face by another parent. I remember the terror of being in a house filled with more than 20 men, all drunk and high on drugs, as I was trying to rescue a young baby who was crawling around the floor, unclothed, among the broken glass, alcohol, ash and drug remnants. Her mother and all of the men were in my face shouting at me, making threats and blocking my exit from the home.
I remember vividly—I wish that I did not—every child and adult who ever disclosed emotional, physical and sexual abuse to me. The one constant in all of those situations was the police. For anyone who has ever been in a dangerous or frightening situation, the relief felt at the sound and sight of police arriving on the scene is almost impossible to put into words. That is often the unseen side of our police force, a side that many of us, thankfully, will never have to encounter. Every day, officers are doing that work, making our communities safer, protecting children and adults from harm and working collaboratively with other agencies.
In our area we have lost 762 officers, against the backdrop of a 60% increase in sexual offences and a 29% increase in violent crime. Our excellent police and crime commissioner, Vera Baird, and her team of officers are doing a sterling job of managing the cuts and protecting our communities, but they desperately need a fairer settlement. If I was in my old job, that level of cuts would worry me. Response times and capacity were vital in the stories that I have just briefly shared with the House, and I know better than most that I can always rely on our police. It is a shame that the police cannot rely on this Government.
6.20 pm
Suella Fernandes (Fareham) (Con):
I have listened intently to the Labour party’s propositions and arguments, and I am stunned and, frankly, disappointed by the one-sided and misleading portrayal of this issue. The shadow Home Secretary talked about cuts to services, cuts to funding and cuts to the police, but he totally ignored the remarkable cut in crime that this country has seen since 2010. Crime has fallen by about 25% since 2010. He challenged the crime survey statistics, but all the independent reports and all the facts show the same decline in crime, with a fall of more
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than 25%. The statistics from the Office for National Statistics are clear that the crime rate is now 64% below its peak in 1995.
Those figures are backed up in the regions. For example, in Hampshire, my county, we have seen an 11% drop in crime over the past year alone, making a fall of more than 30% since 2010. A recent study from Cardiff University showed a 10% fall in the number of people seeking treatment for violent crime injuries in hospital accident and emergency departments, which again reinforces the downward trend in violent crime.
The shadow Home Secretary says that those statistics are overshadowed by the rise in cybercrime, so let us look at what the Government are doing to tackle cybercrime. I sat on the Joint Committee on the Draft Investigatory Powers Bill, which had 22 public evidence sessions and received thousands of pages of written evidence. We visited and met professionals on the frontline. The Bill will provide vital powers and necessary transparency and accountability to our online forces. Having talked to the professionals and listened to what they want, I can say that they want more powers to intercept online communications, interfere with equipment and track internet connection records.
Last week we heard about paedophiles using secret Facebook groups to exchange imagery online and terrorists using WhatsApp, text and email to carry out their crimes. Although the technology is welcome, we need to ensure that encryption is not used against our law enforcement services, which are struggling to keep up with the criminals. The Bill will provide vital powers to ensure that they can tackle cybercrime. To echo the sentiments of my hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse), it focuses on methodology and technique rather than just throwing cash at the problem. That is what the professionals on the frontline want and what they are asking for, and that is what this Government are delivering.
6.23 pm
Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab): It is becoming increasingly apparent that we are not safe with the Tories. With underinvestment in the NHS, social care and local roads, with what is happening to the environment and the economy, and with the downward pressure on the pound, we are under threat from the Tories. We are not safe with them. Now, in our communities, there are attacks on the police, and all the Prime Minister can do is refer to the Leader of the Opposition’s tie. How pathetic is that?
The hon. Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) talked about intelligence playing a crucial role in the police service. Of course it does, and significant amounts of that intelligence, certainly in my police force, come from neighbourhood policing, which is under the cosh. He talked about intelligence being important, but the very service that helps significantly with that at the neighbourhood level is under threat.
The hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry) talked about special constables. They do a fantastic job, but they are additional to, not instead of, the police—that is absolutely crucial.
Jake Berry:
My grandfather spent 25 years patrolling the streets of Bootle as a police officer, and he would say—as I would—that we must focus on ensuring that
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police officers are on the streets of Bootle, not sat behind desks in police headquarters doing work that non-warranted individuals can do.
Peter Dowd: I am really pleased that the hon. Gentleman says that, because I was just coming to that very point in relation to Merseyside police. A fantastic job is being done by the police and crime commissioner, Jane Kennedy; the chief constable, John Murphy; and my local commander, Peter Costello, and all his officers, who spend as much time as they can on the streets, against the odds.
Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab): I am sure my hon. Friend, as a fellow Merseyside MP, is aware of the fact that we lost 19% of our police officers on Merseyside between 2010 and 2015—something the grandfather of the hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry) would be very upset to hear. Workloads are soaring, and the officers who are left have to do a huge amount more with less and less. Does my hon. Friend agree that the recent Police Federation survey showing that 1,500 officers are off with stress or depression every day is an extremely worrying development and something we should all be concerned about?
Peter Dowd: I completely agree, and it surprises me that there are not even more police officers off with stress, given the pressures they are under.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) referred to the cumulative effect of the cuts to local government and local services such as the fire service on the police’s ability to do their job. That endangers the resilience of the police service, because officers are being taken away to do things that are not their responsibility. Huge amounts of their time are taken up with mental health cases because of the stress on local authorities and the NHS, and that should not be the case.
In 2010, we had 7,300 police officers in my area; that is now down by 1,600. We are not making those figures up; the police and crime commissioner, the chief constable and the local commanders are not making them up, and they are not just taking those officers out of the system because they feel like it.
What we have with this Government is jiggery-pokery finance and jiggery-pokery figures. For years, we were told we really could not put the council tax precept up by more than 2%, but the Chancellor of the Exchequer is now almost demanding that in relation to social care, and the Home Secretary is virtually demanding it. [Interruption.] She may well laugh, but that is the reality. She and her colleagues have told us over the years that we are spending too much through tax, but they then demand, for the sake of the Chancellor’s jiggery-pokery economics, that we put the put the precept up by 2%. That amounts to a fiddle; as my right hon. Friend said, it would amount to fraud in other circumstances, and those involved would be arrested.
My local police and crime commissioner has used £2.1 million of reserves, and there are now another £3.3 million of savings to be made, with £27 million of savings to be made by 2019-20. We also have to contend with the deferred blunder in the formula, which will come back to haunt us.
At the same time, crime is up. Hate crime is up, sexual offences are up, violent crime against women is up and
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knife crime is up. We will have to face those increases with less and less financial and human resource, notwithstanding the fact that Merseyside police service collaborates with the fire service in a joint command and control centre. We are doing what we can, but the police service can only do so much.
The Scottish Nationalist party spokesperson, the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway (Richard Arkless), asked how what happens with the British Transport police, the Ministry of Defence police and the Civil Nuclear Constabulary will interplay with the effects on local forces. We need more answers.
Margaret Greenwood: I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Does he agree that those of us who work in this building every day—
Mr Speaker: Order. The hon. Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd) extended a generosity that it was not within his capacity to grant. It was very decent of him, but he gave time that he did not possess.
6.29 pm
Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Royton) (Lab): I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) for opening this debate and allowing so many interventions. We have been able to take part in a very active and constructive debate.
As much as we talk about numbers, it is important that we talk about the crux of the issue, which is how it affects the people we are here to represent and their everyday experience of the changes to the police service. I have wondered throughout the debate what the Home Secretary thinks is the measure of success, because I am struggling to understand it. We talk about police numbers, which are important for some but not for others. We talk about crime figures, and some will say they are accurate and some will say not. We talk about the number of police stations and facilities, but are they important or not? It is very difficult for me and for a lot of people in the community to fully understand what on earth is going on with policing in this country.
I can say, though, that in Greater Manchester the number of police cut is now over 2,000. The Minister knows that, because the House of Commons Library has provided that information and so it is on the public record, but he might not know that the number of police stations in Oldham borough has gone down dramatically. The police station in Royton has closed, the police station in Failsworth has closed, the Limeside police post has closed, the Chadderton police post has closed, Uppermill police station has been downgraded, and the custody cells at Oldham police station have been closed. On top of that—of course, justice is not isolated to the police—the magistrates court and the county court are closing. The Minister will not know how many police stations are closing in Oldham, because when I wrote to the Home Office to ask whether it collated information on that, it said it did not, so it does not even know how many police stations are open. That is very significant. Tomorrow, the police station in Failsworth will be sold to the highest bidder at public auction. The irony is that just down the road is Failsworth
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lodge, which Sir Robert Peel attended to be taught as a private school-educated youngster, and now the police station in that town is being sold.
Crime is up by 14% in Greater Manchester. Sexual offences are up by 46%, violent crime is up by 36%, shoplifting is up by 9%, vehicle crime is up by 8%, and theft is up by 5%—little wonder, with fewer police and fewer police stations, and £200 million taken from Greater Manchester police. Were it not for the police and crime commissioner, Tony Lloyd—a fantastic advocate for policing—and the hard-working and dedicated police officers, the situation would no doubt be far worse. It cannot continue, because on top of all that we have lost community centres, youth centres and youth workers. We talk about prevention, and that community infrastructure is absolutely crucial for finding out what happening on the ground to help the police service do what it does best.
6.32 pm
Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab): I want to pay tribute to the hard work of the police in my constituency, which often goes above and beyond the call of duty. In addition to investigating crime, apprehending criminals and keeping us safe, in the current context of cuts to other public services, the police are too often the service of last resort for residents with severe mental illness and other vulnerabilities. Yet in London our hard-working officers are being let down and undermined by the current Mayor. We have seen enormous cuts to policing in London over the past five years, with the loss of more than 5,600 uniformed officers, including PCSOs.
Byron Davies (Gower) (Con): Does the hon. Lady accept from me—I spent 32 years as a police officer—that the issue with mental health is not a new phenomenon but has always been the case?
Helen Hayes: The officers in my constituency tell me that the problem is more acute at the moment than it has been for many, many years, and that is my experience.
While I welcome the change in recruitment policy by the Metropolitan police to recruit only Londoners, the cuts are clearly limiting the progress that this policy has the potential to make in terms of black and minority ethnic representation in the Met, which still stands at only 11.5%. Much of the reduction in officer numbers is being achieved by not replacing retiring officers. Without new recruitment, the diversity of the Met will continue to lag behind that of the population it serves.
The devastating cuts have had a major impact. Every police officer I speak to is stretched more than they can ever recall having been in their working lives. Violent crime is going up, and last week HMIC announced that the Met requires improvement. Of all the reforms that the hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) has made, the reorganisation of safer neighbourhood policing into the local policing model is the most damaging. Through that reform, the police are losing visibility, vital sources of intelligence and the ability to address minor problems before they escalate.
The Dulwich area of my constituency was recently dubbed the UK’s burglary hotspot on the basis of data from insurance claims relating to burglary. I have spoken
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to many residents who have been the victim of that horrible crime in recent months. Many have had windows and doors smashed in during broad daylight. In one shocking attack, a resident had the contents of a petrol canister poured over him. In that context, our local police have been forced to be reactive instead of proactive, visiting the victims after the crimes had taken place and responding to emergency call-outs. However, a proactive approach, through neighbourhood policing, is vital to addressing some of the most serious and pressing challenges that we face, such as gun and youth crime, sexual exploitation, radicalisation and terrorism, forced marriage and honour-based violence. To investigate and prevent those crimes, the police require a depth of knowledge and relationship with the communities that they serve, which cannot be fabricated in the heat of a rapid response once a crime has been committed.
One community activist in Brixton, who has engaged with the police for many years, said at a Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime roadshow meeting that the erosion of safer neighbourhood teams had
“taken the heart out of policing”.
Margaret Greenwood: Neighbourhood policing, which is the eyes and ears of policing, is important in tackling terrorism. Every day, Members of the House walk past monitors that tell us that the level of threat is “severe”. Does my hon. Friend agree that this is the wrong time to be making cuts to our police?
Helen Hayes: I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. When communities know their officers and officers know their patch, the police have a public face at a local level. When that is taken away, public confidence all too often depends on headlines, high-profile cases and the individual experiences of people who have, sadly, already been the victims of crime. Neighbourhood policing should not be regarded as the softer side of policing. It should be regarded not as a luxury to be cut in a time of austerity, but as a vital relationship-building bridge between the police and the communities that they serve, and as the key to resolving and preventing many of the serious crimes that can threaten the security and stability of our communities.
Naz Shah: Is my hon. Friend aware that Her Majesty’s inspector of constabularies, Zoë Billingham, who led HMIC’s police effectiveness inspection, the report of which was published last week, described neighbourhood policing as
“the cornerstone of the British policing model”
“I need to raise a warning flag here. Forces’ good performance in preventing crimes is at risk if neighbourhood policing is further eroded.”
Helen Hayes: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, which supports the case I am making. In London, we need a Labour Mayor to restore neighbourhood policing, as my hon. Friend has just said, as a cornerstone of the Met.
6.38 pm
Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab):
We have heard this evening about crime going up, workloads going up, police numbers going down and police support staff
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numbers going down. HMIC reports that neighbourhood policing is suffering. The Government cannot cull 35,000 posts from the police service and seek to maintain the protection of the public without any impact. The obvious impact of doing that is to put the public at risk. We need more resources to protect neighbourhood policing, not fewer.
HMIC recognises that neighbourhood policing is, as my hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes) has said, the cornerstone of crime prevention. That is something that the front-line police service have been telling Government for years. Neighbourhood policing enables officers to serve the public, remain vigilant to threats, gather the most accurate intelligence about terrorism and gain crucial local-to-global intelligence, whether for use in the fight against terror or the fight against child sexual exploitation.
To turn specifically to Wales, a really concerning picture is developing. Last week, HMIC concluded in its report that Dyfed-Powys police could do more to keep people safe and to reduce crime. Its report on police effectiveness found that the approach to investigating crimes and supporting the vulnerable and victims required improvement. It also highlighted Dyfed-Powys’s allocation of complex crimes, sexual offences and high-risk domestic abuse to officers who did not have adequate training.
Across Wales, we have seen a reduction of 783 police officers and even more support staff. Those cuts are akin to wiping three quarters of the entire Gwent police force off the face of the map. Police are now going back into offices to do administrative work. Such work has to be done and cannot be ignored—it is crucial to how policing works—but police officers need to be on the streets to build trust and relationships with local communities.
In Wales, the Welsh Government have created 500 PCSOs not to replace police officers, but to backfill the gaps left by the 20% cuts to policing imposed by the Government since 2010. HMIC has stated that cuts should not be more than 12%, but that has been ignored by the previous coalition and the current Government. The Minister for Policing, Crime and Criminal Justice has said that
“Chief Constables and Police and Crime Commissioners have no excuse whatsoever not to deliver at least good quality policing in their areas.”
I think that they have every excuse, given the cuts to their budgets. South Wales police, in my own area, will have a cash cut of nearly £3.5 million in real terms in its budget for 2016-17, compared with last year.
The police are now spread so thinly that they are struggling to act as eyes and ears on our streets, which undermines their ability to do their job. At the same time, the Home Secretary is talking about risks to national security and the threat from terrorism is at an extreme level.
Steve McCabe: I agree with my hon. Friend that such threats are multiplying. The Home Secretary suggested earlier that crime was down and all was well, but she seems to have overlooked the fact that violent crime is actually rising and that in some parts of the country—Birmingham, for example—gun crime is rampant. Is this not the wrong time to cut special resources for policing?
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Jo Stevens: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Knife crime has gone up again this year, and we have seen the figures released last week.
The police are now spread so thinly that they cannot do their job. We talk about risks and threats to national security and efforts to counter the threat we face from terrorism. This is a time when we need more police, not less. There is only one thing that you get for less—and that is less.
6.42 pm
Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): Neighbourhood policing was one of Labour’s greatest achievements—a proud legacy. When we were in government, we built on the British model of policing by consent. My right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) was absolutely right to say that when Labour left office, there were record numbers of police on the street: 17,000 more than in 1997 and, in addition, nearly 17,000 PCSOs. As my hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes) said, neighbourhood policing is popular with the public. It is local policing with local roots, underpinned by local crime and safety partnerships, and it provides a local say.
The British model of policing is now under threat, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd) rightly said. The HMIC report by Zoë Billingham describes how neighbourhood policing is
“the cornerstone of the British policing model”.
“I need to raise a warning flag here.”
She goes on to talk about the dangers
“if neighbourhood policing is further eroded.”
“our eyes and ears in the community”.
Crucially, she singles out her concern about limiting the ability of neighbourhood policing teams to identify and disrupt threats such as organised crime and terrorism. Indeed, both the current head of counter-terrorism and his predecessor have warned about the dangers of hollowing out neighbourhood policing because it is vital to intelligence gathering.
Mrs May: The hon. Gentleman quotes Her Majesty’s inspector of constabulary Zoë Billingham, but she actually said:
“We don’t think it should be inevitable that the preventative neighbourhood presence should be eroded”,
because the Government’s funding settlement for the police means there is an opportunity for the police chiefs “to review their decision”.
Jack Dromey: The Home Secretary can, if she wishes, misinterpret what the report says. I have reported the inspector’s warnings that she is ignoring. The Government are ignoring the warnings from the police and the mounting concern of the public that they no longer see their police.
Having cut the police service by 25% in the last Parliament, right up until the night before the comprehensive spending review, the Government were threatening to cut it by at least another 22%. With the Home Secretary failing to stand up for the police service,
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we were on the brink of catastrophe, but under pressure from Labour, the public and the police, the Chancellor staged, in what can only be described as a shambles, a last-minute U-turn and a promise was made. “Read my lips,” he intimated,
“I am today announcing that there will be no cuts in the police budget at all. There will be real-terms protection for police funding. The police protect us, and we are going to protect the police.”—[Official Report, 25 November 2015; Vol. 602, c. 1373.]
That promise to the public and the police has been broken. The Chancellor said he would protect the police, but now we know that police budgets are still being cut—a broken promise. It is just like in 2010 when the Prime Minister said that he would protect the frontline. Since then, 12,000 front-line officers have been lost—a broken promise. To add insult to injury, not only are the Tories continuing to slash police funding, but they expect the public to pay more to make up for it. The Tory sums rely on local people being charged an extra £389 million in council tax—a Tory police tax. The public are paying more for less.
The shadow Secretary of State, and my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton (Jim McMahon) and other Members spoke of the reality in the communities that they serve. Neighbourhood policing is being hollowed out: 18,000 officers have gone and 4,500 PCSOs have been lost in the last five bleak years. Some 1,300 have gone in the last six months alone—the equivalent of a whole force—and many more will go over the next 12 months. Hugh Orde was right when he said that a generation of progress is being reversed.
There has been a major increase in knife crime, which is up by 9%, and a 27% rise in violent crime, including a 14% increase in the murder rate; sexual offences have gone up by 36% and reported rape is at its highest level since 2003; and victims are being let down, with half of all cases being closed without a suspect being identified. Resources are diminishing just when demand is soaring. Police in the 21st century face the triple challenges of terrorism, cybercrime and child sexual exploitation. The threats to British security in the 21st century demand a modernised, more responsive and better equipped police service, not a smaller one.
The shambles of the comprehensive spending review was followed by the omnishambles over the funding formula, in which the Home Office used the wrong figures to misallocate hundreds of millions of pounds of police funding, meaning that the doomed review of the unfair funding formula has been delayed for a further year. “Sorry,” said the Policing Minister, “we used the wrong figures and we should have got it right.” That means that there is a stopgap settlement for only a year—more uncertainty and more unfairness. West Midlands police, my local force, and Northumbria police will continue to receive double the cuts that Surrey receives.
The truth is that police budgets have not been protected. The truth is that crime is not falling, but changing. People are now more likely to be mugged online than in the street, yet in the words of the Office for National Statistics,
“fraud and cyber crime are not currently included in the headline Crime Survey for England and Wales estimates”.
They will now be included. The ONS states:
“Preliminary results from this field trial indicate that there were an estimated 5.1 million incidents of fraud”.
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When the statistics finally tell the truth on crime, we will see crime nearly doubled under this Government, robbing them of the alibi they have used over the past five years: “We have cut the police, but we have cut crime.”
In conclusion, the thin blue line is being stretched ever thinner. Our police service has been nothing short of heroic. The powerful contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck) showed the day in, day out experience we all have. I see it in my constituency, ranging from, on the one hand, outstanding initiatives to engage young people, such as the formation by the police of a canoeing club that built excellent relationships with local young people and that helped to divert them from crime and helped to get information about those who were carrying out burglaries, to, on the other hand, the case of Lucy Lawton, a young mum who had her two children kidnapped by a fleeing bank robber—they were tracked down and the kids were returned to their distraught mother. These are good men and women, ordinary men and women doing extraordinary things, often in the most difficult circumstances, but they are being let down by this Government. Now is not the time to press ahead with the biggest cuts to any police service in Europe. The safety and security of our citizens comes first. That is why Labour, the party that built neighbourhood policing, will be the champion of neighbourhood policing and the champion of public safety and the police.
6.50 pm
The Minister for Policing, Crime and Criminal Justice (Mike Penning): I was laughing at the shadow Policing Minister, Mr Speaker, and I apologise for doing so as this is a very serious day and a very serious debate. Like the Home Secretary, I pay tribute to the emergency services that are still on the scene at the former power station at Didcot. I spoke to the chief fire officer earlier today and, on behalf of the House, expressed gratitude for the work that they are doing at the incident, which is very harrowing for them as well as for the loved ones and families of those who are still missing and those who have been injured and killed.
I listened carefully to the speeches made by the shadow Home Secretary and by the shadow Policing Minister. I think that I might have heard his speech before—perhaps before the election, before the shadow Home Secretary wanted a 10% cut to policing, or perhaps I heard it last week, and perhaps I will hear it again next week. The shame about having this debate, curtailed as it is, is that we will have a debate next week, led by the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, on the Committee’s report. I bet that I hear an almost identical speech then from the shadow Policing Minister.
When we look carefully at what the Labour party is saying, we can see that on the one hand they are saying that we should have allowed cuts of 10% to policing until 2020 whereas, on the other hand, we hear speeches galore from Labour Back Benchers saying, “These cuts are not good.” What cuts? The cuts that happened between 2010 and 2015? Or those that would have happened had this country been foolish enough to elect a Labour Government?
The shadow Home Secretary is trying to say that we should not have taken into consideration the precept
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that is allowed—the 2% or 5%. Every Home Secretary has done that and every Chancellor has done that, when we look at how we fund the police. All of a sudden, we have a completely different narrative—“We want to cut it, and we want to cut it even more.” It fascinated me.
Mike Penning: No, I will not give way. I am afraid that the shadow Home Secretary went on for far too long, as the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee said. Perhaps next week we might hear the same speech again.
Mike Penning: If I have time, I will give way to the hon. Gentleman. He has a very important constituency issue that I have been trying to help him with and I will give way if I have time.
It is very important that we also take into consideration what was said by the third party in this House, the Scottish National party, complaining about the fact that VAT at 20% is not allowed to be deducted. It was part of the business plan when the SNP put the plan together for one force in Scotland. That was physically part of the plan. Is this a new type of politics that is happening in Scotland, in which the SNP put a business plan together, get agreement, and afterwards say that it does not like it and wants to change it—a bit like with a referendum that took place not so long ago, which it is not very happy with either?
I listened very carefully to the Opposition spokesmen, especially the shadow Policing Minister, who made a very powerful case for canoeing activities in his constituency—
Jack Dromey: For the prevention of crime.
Mike Penning: Absolutely, so perhaps the police and crime commissioner could explain why he has not spent part of the £153 million reserve in the West Midlands on that. Perhaps we should look at the polling in May when, as we have heard, the Labour party will have candidates in all 43 PCC areas. In its manifesto it said that it would not do that—it was going to abolish PCCs because they were wrong, expensive and unnecessary. It did not want them.
Mike Penning: No. Perhaps Paddy Tipping and Vera Baird convinced the Labour party that they would not accept being abolished. It is entirely up the electorate in England and Wales who to elect, but we should look carefully at the record of some PCCs around the country, especially Labour PCCs, where the cuts to front-line police have been the greatest.
Mike Penning: No. Perhaps we should look carefully at the only force in the country that is cutting the precept—Hertfordshire, in my part of the world. Why is it cutting it? Because part of the reserves that have been built up over the years will be used.
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Mike Penning: I will not give way.
We have complaints when we use the precept, and complaints when we cut it. We should be talking about what is delivering the best policing in this country. Has crime dropped since 2000? Yes. For the first time we have a Conservative Government who have the courage to include new types of crime in the statistics. These crimes have not just suddenly appeared in 2010 or 2015. They have been going on for years, but the previous Labour Administration refused to include them in the statistics. Will it be difficult for some forces? Yes, it will. Is it the right thing to do? Yes, and that is crucial.
We have heard today quite a lot of scaremongering. There has been an increase in reporting domestic violence—quite rightly, I hope we will all agree. Every time I am at this Dispatch Box I say that we want people to have the confidence to come forward and report domestic violence, and it was not being reported correctly when we first came to government. We changed the reporting rules for how crime is reported.
Jake Berry: In the short time remaining, will the Minister address my concerns about what further protections can be given to special constables, and say whether the Government will act to extend the protection of the Police Federation to them?
Mike Penning: I was just coming on to special constables, because they were derided by the Opposition. Volunteers—what a terrible thing to have in a police force! Our specials are the most important people in the community. They come forward and do not get paid and only receive expenses. In my constituency, a special was attacked when on duty one evening. They laid his leg across the kerb, jumped on it and snapped his leg. The sort of protection that we should have—we will look at this, because it is vital—should mean that a special constable or a warranted officer has exactly the same protection as any other police officer in this country, and I speak weekly with the Police Federation about that.
I will respond as soon as I can to the issue raised by the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), because I want to get this right. A lot of work is going on, particularly with the chief constables, about how we can get better collaboration on capabilities going forward. It is not possible to come up with new formulas until I understand fully where the chief constables will stand on capabilities. The right hon. Gentleman said that the chief constables had not been in contact with me, but I have met three chief officers in the past seven days, including PCCs, and discussed the issue face to face. I have not spoken to all 43 since the report, but I will ensure that I meet them all.
On Monday I have been asked to go to Didcot by the chief fire officer to thank the emergency services, and I am sure the whole House will join me in that. I hope that the country and the House will not listen to scaremongering from Labour Members who wanted to cut police funding by 10% or more.
The House divided:
Ayes 193, Noes 279.
Division No. 200]
[
6.59 pm
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Alexander, Heidi
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Barron, rh Kevin
Beckett, rh Margaret
Benn, rh Hilary
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Dr Roberta
Blomfield, Paul
Brown, Lyn
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Butler, Dawn
Byrne, rh Liam
Cadbury, Ruth
Campbell, rh Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Champion, Sarah
Chapman, Jenny
Coffey, Ann
Cooper, Julie
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, rh Jeremy
Cox, Jo
Coyle, Neil
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cummins, Judith
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Dakin, Nic
David, Wayne
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Dowd, Peter
Dromey, Jack
Eagle, Ms Angela
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Elliott, Tom
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farron, Tim
Field, rh Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Fletcher, Colleen
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Gardiner, Barry
Goodman, Helen
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Greenwood, Margaret
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Haigh, Louise
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Carolyn
Hayes, Helen
Hayman, Sue
Healey, rh John
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Hillier, Meg
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hollern, Kate
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Huq, Dr Rupa
Hussain, Imran
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Gerald
Jones, Graham
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Kane, Mike
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Kinnock, Stephen
Kyle, Peter
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewis, Clive
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Long Bailey, Rebecca
Lucas, Ian C.
Mactaggart, rh Fiona
Madders, Justin
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr Gordon
Maskell, Rachael
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonald, Andy
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGinn, Conor
McGovern, Alison
McInnes, Liz
McKinnell, Catherine
McMahon, Jim
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miliband, rh Edward
Morden, Jessica
Morris, Grahame M.
Mulholland, Greg
Murray, Ian
Onn, Melanie
Onwurah, Chi
Osamor, Kate
Owen, Albert
Pearce, Teresa
Pennycook, Matthew
Perkins, Toby
Phillips, Jess
Pound, Stephen
Rayner, Angela
Reed, Mr Steve
Rees, Christina
Reeves, Rachel
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Rimmer, Marie
Ritchie, Ms Margaret
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Saville Roberts, Liz
Shah, Naz
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Sherriff, Paula
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Cat
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Starmer, Keir
Stevens, Jo
Streeting, Wes
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, rh Ms Gisela
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thomas-Symonds, Nick
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turley, Anna
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Watson, Mr Tom
West, Catherine
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mr Mark
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Dame Rosie
Woodcock, John
Wright, Mr Iain
Zeichner, Daniel
Tellers for the Ayes:
Holly Lynch
and
Jeff Smith
NOES
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Allan, Lucy
Allen, Heidi
Amess, Sir David
Andrew, Stuart
Ansell, Caroline
Argar, Edward
Atkins, Victoria
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Mr Steve
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Sir Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Berry, James
Bingham, Andrew
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Borwick, Victoria
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Brady, Mr Graham
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, rh James
Bruce, Fiona
Buckland, Robert
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Sir Simon
Burt, rh Alistair
Cairns, Alun
Carmichael, Neil
Cartlidge, James
Cash, Sir William
Caulfield, Maria
Chalk, Alex
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Churchill, Jo
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Cleverly, James
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Costa, Alberto
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, rh Stephen
Davies, Byron
Davies, Chris
Davies, David T. C.
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Dr James
Davies, Mims
Davis, rh Mr David
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donelan, Michelle
Double, Steve
Dowden, Oliver
Drax, Richard
Drummond, Mrs Flick
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Sir Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Mr Nigel
Evennett, rh Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Fernandes, Suella
Foster, Kevin
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Frazer, Lucy
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fuller, Richard
Fysh, Marcus
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, rh Sir Edward
Gauke, Mr David
Ghani, Nusrat
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Gove, rh Michael
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Chris
Green, rh Damian
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Halfon, rh Robert
Hall, Luke
Hammond, Stephen
Harper, rh Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan
Heald, Sir Oliver
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Heaton-Jones, Peter
Henderson, Gordon
Hinds, Damian
Hoare, Simon
Hollingbery, George
Hollinrake, Kevin
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Howlett, Ben
Huddleston, Nigel
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, rh Sajid
Jayawardena, Mr Ranil
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Jenrick, Robert
Johnson, Boris
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kennedy, Seema
Kirby, Simon
Knight, Julian
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lancaster, Mark
Latham, Pauline
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Sir Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Mackinlay, Craig
Mackintosh, David
Main, Mrs Anne
Mak, Mr Alan
Malthouse, Kit
Mann, Scott
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McPartland, Stephen
Menzies, Mark
Merriman, Huw
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Mrs Maria
Milling, Amanda
Mills, Nigel
Milton, rh Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, rh Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Morton, Wendy
Mowat, David
Murray, Mrs Sheryll
Newton, Sarah
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Dr Matthew
Parish, Neil
Patel, rh Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, rh Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Philp, Chris
Pickles, rh Sir Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Prentis, Victoria
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pursglove, Tom
Quin, Jeremy
Quince, Will
Raab, Mr Dominic
Redwood, rh John
Rees-Mogg, Mr Jacob
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Robinson, Mary
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, rh Amber
Rutley, David
Scully, Paul
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, rh Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Soames, rh Sir Nicholas
Solloway, Amanda
Soubry, rh Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Graham
Sturdy, Julian
Sunak, Rishi
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Thomas, Derek
Throup, Maggie
Timpson, Edward
Tolhurst, Kelly
Tomlinson, Justin
Tomlinson, Michael
Tracey, Craig
Tredinnick, David
Trevelyan, Mrs Anne-Marie
Truss, rh Elizabeth
Tugendhat, Tom
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, rh Mr Andrew
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Warburton, David
Warman, Matt
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Wharton, James
Whately, Helen
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Wiggin, Bill
Williamson, rh Gavin
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wood, Mike
Wragg, William
Wright, rh Jeremy
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Noes:
Jackie Doyle-Price
and
Guy Opperman
Question accordingly negatived.
24 Feb 2016 : Column 414
24 Feb 2016 : Column 415
24 Feb 2016 : Column 416
24 Feb 2016 : Column 417
Business without Debate
Business of the House (29 February)
That, at the sitting on Monday 29 February:
(1) the provisions of Standing Order No. 16 (Proceedings under an Act or on European Union documents) shall not apply to the Motion in the name of Secretary Philip Hammond relating to the draft European Union Referendum (Date of Referendum etc.) Regulations 2016; the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of the Motion not later than two hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion; and proceedings on the Motion may continue, though opposed, after the moment of interruption;
(2) paragraph (2) of Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments) shall apply to any Motion in the name of the Leader of the Opposition; proceedings on the Motion may continue, though opposed, for three hours and shall then lapse if not previously disposed of; and (3) Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply to any motion to which paragraph (1) or (2) of this order applies.—(George Hollingbery.)
Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Bill
That, at the sitting on Wednesday 2 March, any Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Bill ordered to be brought in and read the first time may be proceeded with as if its Second Reading stood as an Order of the Day, and Standing Order No. 56 (Consolidated Fund Bills) shall apply.—(George Hollingbery.)
24 Feb 2016 : Column 418
Katie Road NHS Walk-in Centre
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(George Hollingbery.)
7.12 pm
Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Tonight I am seeking an opportunity to shed some light on the continuing saga of the Katie Road NHS walk-in centre in my constituency. Its future status has been in doubt ever since its fate was placed in the hands of one of the new clinical commissioning groups. My constituents have had to live with rumours, on-off consultations and continuing threats to the long-term future of an immensely popular and highly valued service that sees about 70,000 patients a year. The origins of the service lie in concerns that the large number of students in the area, as well as vulnerable individuals—often with mental health conditions and in unstable accommodation—were placing a demand on GP services that could not be met by existing provision, which was in turn placing intolerable strains on the local accident and emergency services.
My own fairly extensive consultations with constituents have established that the centre is regularly used by those who cannot easily secure quick appointments with their own GP. That is often a problem for those in work—especially those who work unsocial hours—and for families with elderly relatives or young children who cannot easily gain access to GPs at weekends or in the evenings. The Katie Road centre sees about 300 to 400 patients during an average weekend.
There is now fairly widespread recognition of the value of walk-in centres. The 2014 Monitor review reported rising demand for the service year on year. About 70% of the centres that were surveyed reported that they were seeing an average of 20,000 to 45,000 patients a year, as opposed to anticipated attendances of between 12,000 and 24,000. Yet despite the demand and support for walk-in centres, local commissioners have closed more than 50 since the start of 2010, reduced services at 23 others and reduced overall capacity by about 20%. I am not aware that, other than the Monitor report, there has been any substantial review into the impact of that loss of provision. I wonder whether the Minister is in a position to enlighten me, and whether he might take this opportunity to say what the Government’s position is on urgent care generally and walk-in centres in particular. I noticed that the Department of Health consultation “Refreshing the Mandate” says that
“we want to improve people’s access to primary care through new forms of provision including rapid walk-in access.”
In early 2013, Birmingham CrossCity clinical commissioning group announced plans to consult on the future of the Katie Road walk-in centre. That was apparently based on a report commissioned by the former South Birmingham primary care trust, a report that remains secret to this day. I first asked to see a copy of it in March 2013. In June 2013, the CCG called off its plans for walk-in centres and it was announced that they had been saved, only for the chair of the clinical commissioning group to reveal later that it planned to renew the contract temporarily and that Katie Road had been saved for 12 to 18 months. Later, the CCG announced that it planned a two-stage consultation, with a pre-consultation phase and then a main consultation with the public.
24 Feb 2016 : Column 419
Naturally, I wanted to ensure that my constituents had their say on the matter. When I consulted them, I discovered that more than 72% had experience of using the centre and were firmly opposed to any plans to close it.
Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): I agree that walk-in centres have the ability to take pressure off overworked A&Es, but does the hon. Gentleman agree that the best way to take pressure not just off A&Es but walk-in centres is to have GP surgeries open seven days a week, so that people can access services overall?
Steve McCabe: I might agree with that, but one of the problems in my area is that GP surgeries have been cut as well, so that is not the answer.
As I said, more than 72% of the people I consulted had experience of using the centre and were firmly opposed to any plans to close it. I also found that 56% of people had used the centre for out-of-hours emergency treatment, and 55% expressed serious concern about any plans to move the service to or near the A&E unit. My findings are consistent with that of the survey conducted on behalf of the NHS central midlands commissioning support unit in 2012, which found that more than two thirds of patients surveyed at eight walk-in centres and urgent care centres across Birmingham and Solihull indicated that they had attended because of an access-related issue—for example, they could not get an appointment with their GP or had to wait a considerable time to be seen.
There were major objections from my constituents to relocating their walk-in centre to the main hospital. They referred, for example, to the distance, waiting times, parking and accessibility. During a visit to Katie Road, I witnessed an ambulance crew bring into the walk-in centre an elderly lady in need of stitches to a leg injury. They did that rather than take her to the A&E unit because of their concerns over the likely delays. The CCG’s own figures suggest that an average visit to the walk-in centre costs around £45, as opposed to £75 to £100 for an A&E visit.
I am aware that there are many examples of walk-in centres being co-located with other health or social care services, and that some have a pharmacy on site or are co-located with diagnostic services such as X-ray services, dental facilities or family planning, but I should like to ask the Minister whether there is any evidence that shows an obvious advantage in co-locating an urgent care or walk-in centre alongside an A&E unit, especially evidence that would outweigh such negatives as distance, waiting times, parking and accessibility. In fact, is it not the case that most walk-in centres have a limited ability to refer patients on to secondary care services, as patients needing a referral to secondary care are normally referred by GPs, who are the traditional gatekeepers—a role that has, if anything, been strengthened as a result of the reorganisation of the NHS?
In autumn 2013 the CCG commenced its pre-consultation. The chair of the CCG met with a number of my constituents in February 2014, when he heard clearly their desire to retain Katie Road and their objections to a plan being pushed by the CCG to relocate the walk-in centre to a site at the University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Trust site, adjacent to the hospital’s A&E unit. In July 2014 I invited the chair of the CCG
24 Feb 2016 : Column 420
and a number of his staff to take part in a second meeting attended by more than 80 constituents—we were limited by the size of the room, or it would have been many more. At that meeting they heard clearly once again that there was total opposition to the closure of the walk-in centre and the plans to relocate to the hospital. That review or consultation eventually fizzled out, with the promise of a bigger and better consultation later in 2014.
Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab): The issue of such walk-in centres closing down is difficult for all of us in our constituencies. It is no good Conservative Members saying that we will have a seven-day a week GP service, because what they have done already with regard to the junior doctors dispute shows that they are not capable of doing that. That means that our constituents will continue to suffer. In particular, those at work cannot access services and are therefore put at greater risk through further misdiagnosis or non-diagnosis.
Steve McCabe: My hon. Friend will know very well that there is a problem with GP provision in his part of Birmingham as well as my own, so it is difficult to see how it could be stretched further.
As I said, we were promised a bigger and better consultation for later in 2014, but that was abandoned in light of the impending general election, the date of which had, obviously, been known since the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011.
No satisfactory explanation for the proposed change has ever been provided, but now, once again, the CCG wants to consult on the future of the walk-in service. This time it apparently wants to consult on a new model of service, the details of which are known only to itself but which has apparently not been clinically tested. It appears that, once again, it involves plans to relocate the walk-in centre to a site adjacent to the A&E unit.
As the Minister will know, sections 75 to 77 of the Health and Social Care Act 2012 specifically state that commissioners are required to act in a transparent way when procuring services:
“Transparency is important in ensuring that commissioners are accountable for their decisions. As noted, commissioners also have a duty to involve the public in commissioning decisions.”
It is not clear to me where in that part of the Act there is support for a series of bungled and inadequate on-off reviews and a constant determination to impose one outcome irrespective of the arguments to the contrary. I would welcome the Minister’s view on that. I am deeply concerned at the continuing threats to the service, which plays such a vital part in the delivery of healthcare for my constituents. I cannot see how the loss of a provision such as Katie Road is consistent with the Government’s ambitions for a seven-day NHS—perhaps the Minister can advise me on that.
Ironically, I have recently discovered that the opening hours of the Katie Road centre are to be extended to help cope with winter pressures. Dr Lumley, who works with the neighbouring CCG, which also serves south Birmingham, is quoted in the press as saying, in response to that announcement, that
‘this is great news for patients in Birmingham and means they can access the Walk in Centre until late, seven days a week.”
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Such a pity her views are not shared by her colleagues in CrossCity CCG, who assumed responsibility for Katie Road in the carve-up following the introduction of the Lansley reforms.
It seems to me that the CCG is clearly out of its depth in handling a public consultation, or certainly one that can command any public confidence. What advice and support, if any, do the Government offer to CCGs on conducting consultations with the public? I am curious to know how much public money—money that could obviously have been spent on patient care—the CCG has spent on its on-off reviews and consultations so far. Is there any limit to how much public money a CCG is entitled to spend on a review or consultation on a single issue? If so, how much is it? Who is ultimately responsible for making a decision on the future of urgent care provision in south Birmingham? Do the Government accept any responsibility for this unsatisfactory state of affairs, and is there anything the Minister can do to help me and my constituents secure the future of this popular and well used health resource in south Birmingham, which is clearly needed and highly valued?
At the very least, I urge the Minister to write to the chair of the CCG following this Adjournment debate, urging him to communicate properly with my constituents and their elected representatives, to stop repeatedly trying to impose plans that have already been rejected and to bring this whole sorry state of affairs to a satisfactory conclusion.
7.28 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Ben Gummer): I thank the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe) for his clear outlining of the case for his constituents and for Katie Road walk-in centre, and I congratulate him on securing this debate. He touches on an interesting issue for the NHS as a whole, one with which clinicians have been grappling in the past few years: what is the nature of urgent and emergency care in a world where demography is changing rapidly, where demands on the service are changing and where there are incredibly different and disparate populations? He rightly points out that he represents a constituency that has a high student population, that has areas with high levels of deprivation and that has a wide mix of ethnic diversity. Other parts of the country have a significantly ageing profile and do not have the ethnic mix that he is able to enjoy in his part of Birmingham; they have a different socio-economic profile.
What is clear for commissioners and for clinicians is that the answer for urgent and emergency care in one area is different from that in another. I know that might be stating the bleedingly obvious, but it was something that was not observed by the NHS before Professor Sir Bruce Keogh initiated his review of urgent and emergency care in 2013. The result of that was a holistic, sensible and coherent plan for how urgent and emergency care should be delivered across the country. The variation in care, from Northumbria down to Cornwall, is extensive at the moment; there are considerable differences. The hon. Gentleman has highlighted the fact that there are differences even within the city of Birmingham. At the very least, we have made progress in the past few years in having a vision of what urgent and emergency care
24 Feb 2016 : Column 422
should look like. The challenge is to try to implement that across the service, which is why, over the past two years, considerable work has been done by clinicians and commissioners to try to understand how the principles of the Keogh review can inform the reshaping of emergency and urgent care in their patches.
As the hon. Gentleman has identified with the issue of one walk-in centre—he can imagine how such local controversies become all the greater when they involve accident and emergency centres and trauma centres—these are matters that are very close to the hearts of constituents, who rely on those services. Those services are there in their moment of need, and they are, in a very real sense, the single greatest embodiment of the NHS and its values. We must treat urgent and emergency care with the utmost care.
The plans that are being worked up across the country are being done carefully with commissioners in co-ordination with NHS England and, ultimately, with Professor Sir Bruce Keogh. Let me give the hon. Gentleman an idea of why that has been so carefully done and the extent of care that has been taken: it was only in the autumn that the route map for the whole country was published. I hope he will therefore understand why his local CCGs have had to revise the timetables by which they have been looking at urgent and emergency care. As he pointed out, they began their own study of this in Birmingham before Professor Sir Bruce Keogh undertook his review. They have had to revise their thinking in the light of that, and I know that they are taking forward their current consultation on the basis of the route maps that have been designed by NHS England with commissioners around the country.
The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point about process. I know why he is frustrated, and I completely understand his frustration. I also understand his irritation at the bureaucratese that can fly in his face as a representative of local people. I cannot specifically talk about the consultation of which he speaks because I do not have a detailed knowledge of it. All I can say is that in the NHS there are good and bad consultations. What we have tried to do over the past five years—and I am trying to do this in my current position—is to ensure that we bring the worst consultations up to the best, that we learn from where they have gone wrong and that they go better. I can of course commit to write to the chairman of his CCG, perhaps highlighting the work that has been done around producing very good consultations, reiterating the points that he has made in his speech, and asking for a clarification around each and every point that he has raised, so that he feels satisfied that he has raised his issues in the Chamber and that he can provide answers to his constituents. Clearly, he feels that, at the moment, there is much confusion and not too much clarity.
I spoke to senior commissioners in the South Birmingham CCG today in advance of this debate to ensure that I was availed of the facts of the situation. They assured me that there is a full intention to continue services at Katie Road. The centre’s value is understood and well known, which is precisely why there was a temporary extension of the hours till 10 pm to deal with the winter pressures that are felt across the service. The commissioners also made it clear that there has not been a predetermination about the location of a further urgent care centre. It will be in Selly Oak, and it will be
24 Feb 2016 : Column 423
considerably larger than Katie Road so it will be able to accommodate more services and will be of greater use to the hon. Gentleman’s constituents. The commissioners have not come to a decision yet about where it should be located. I know that they will want to engage fully with him and with the community in order to ensure that it goes to the right place.
Steve McCabe: When the Minister was given an assurance that Katie Road would continue, he was presumably told that the contract was due to come to an end. Was there any indication that there was an intention to have yet another roll-over contract, or whether there is a timescale attached to the consultation—yet another one?
Ben Gummer: No, I was not assured in that level of detail—I can ask for that information in my letter to the chairman of the CCG—but I think that the intentions were clear, and they seemed entirely honourable. They understood the purpose of the centre, and they clearly saw the disadvantage of those services discontinuing before a new urgent care centre opens. I think that they understand the hon. Gentleman’s perfectly reasonable point that there needs to be some sort of continuity of service so that local people know where to go and can feel confident about local service provision.
On the important point about location and co-location, it will be different for different areas. The hon. Gentleman might have local pressures at University Hospitals Birmingham that do not pertain elsewhere in the country. It might be right—we are having exactly the same discussion in my constituency at the moment—to make use of an A&E brand and say, “Right, you have one simple place to go,” or it might be right to locate services on a different site. That will be different for different places. That is why it was decided in 2009, under the previous Labour Government, to give commissioners a greater role in local decisions on urgent and emergency care, because they are the ones who know their patches best, and what I write in Whitehall might not be right for local conditions in Selly Oak, or anywhere else for that matter.
I cannot therefore give the hon. Gentleman an answer on co-location because it will be different in different parts of the country, but what I can tell him is that my letter to the chairman of the CCG will include a particular reference to the fact that he and his constituents wish to be consulted and that there needs to be a clear rationale behind the location so that people feel that it is done not for the ease of NHS-land, but for the betterment of patient service.
24 Feb 2016 : Column 424
The hon. Gentleman asked about consistency with seven-day services. I would like to reassure him that we are building seven-day services on the basis of the urgent and emergency care networks that were outlined by Professor Sir Bruce Keogh in his 2013 review and the consequent work. Contrary to the suggestion of his hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr Mahmood), the seven-day services programme is entirely clinically led. It draws on the work that the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges undertook in 2013 to develop 10 clinical standards. That is the basis of the work we are taking forward. The contract reform that we have undertaken, both for junior doctors and for consultants, is based in part on the recommendations of those 10 clinical standards, so it is routed entirely in the need to respond to the top clinicians’ advice on how we achieve consistency of service across seven days of the week.
I would therefore expect the results of any consultation into urgent and emergency care in Birmingham to match precisely the overall work that we are doing to ensure consistency of standards across seven days of the week, good access for patients and a clear and transparent approach to urgent and emergency care, which in parts of the country, as the hon. Gentleman has identified, can at times be both patchy and confusing.
Finally, the hon. Gentleman asked whether there is a threat to walk-in centres. Under this Government he will see continued investment in urgent and emergency care. We will seek to find greater clarity around urgent and emergency care so that there is a clearer brand and more easily recognisable services for local people, so that we eliminate inconsistencies across the service and so that we fulfil the best clinical advice on how to achieve better services in urgent and emergency care by following the recommendations of Professor Sir Bruce Keogh and the work that has been done by local clinicians since. I do not believe therefore that there is a threat to urgent and emergency care services, and I believe they will improve over the next four years.
That is why I am happy to promise the hon. Gentleman that I will continue to answer questions on Katie Road. Should he have any further concerns, I would be delighted if he came to me so that we could talk about them. I will do what I can to allay those concerns and to make representations on his behalf to his clinical commissioning group so that he can get the answers he seeks.
7.40 pm
24 Feb 2016 : Column 425
Deferred Divisions
Estimates
That this House agrees with the Report of the Liaison Committee of 10 February:
(1) That a day not later than 18 March be allotted for the consideration of the following Estimates for financial year 2015-16: Department of Business, Innovation and Skills, insofar as it relates to the science budget; and Department of Health, insofar as it relates to end of life care.
(2) That a further day not later than 18 March be allotted for the consideration of the following Estimates for financial year 2015-16: Foreign & Commonwealth Office, insofar as it relates to the Spending Review 2015; and Home Office, insofar as it relates to reform of the police funding formula.
The House divided:
Ayes 301, Noes 60.
Division No. 198]
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Allan, Lucy
Allen, Heidi
Amess, Sir David
Andrew, Stuart
Ansell, Caroline
Argar, Edward
Atkins, Victoria
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Mr Steve
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Sir Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Berry, James
Bingham, Andrew
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Borwick, Victoria
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, rh James
Bruce, Fiona
Buckland, Robert
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Sir Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Cairns, Alun
Cameron, rh Mr David
Carmichael, Neil
Cartlidge, James
Caulfield, Maria
Chalk, Alex
Chishti, Rehman
Churchill, Jo
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Cleverly, James
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Costa, Alberto
Crabb, rh Stephen
Davies, Byron
Davies, Chris
Davies, David T. C.
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Dr James
Davies, Mims
Davis, rh Mr David
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donelan, Michelle
Dorries, Nadine
Double, Steve
Dowden, Oliver
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Drummond, Mrs Flick
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Sir Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Elliott, Tom
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Mr Nigel
Evennett, rh Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Fernandes, Suella
Flynn, Paul
Foster, Kevin
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Frazer, Lucy
Freeman, George
Fuller, Richard
Fysh, Marcus
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, rh Sir Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
Ghani, Nusrat
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Chris
Green, rh Damian
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Halfon, rh Robert
Hall, Luke
Hammond, rh Mr Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, rh Matthew
Hands, rh Greg
Harper, rh Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan
Heald, Sir Oliver
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Heaton-Jones, Peter
Henderson, Gordon
Hermon, Lady
Hinds, Damian
Hoare, Simon
Hollingbery, George
Hollinrake, Kevin
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Howlett, Ben
Huddleston, Nigel
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, rh Sajid
Jayawardena, Mr Ranil
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Jenkyns, Andrea
Jenrick, Robert
Johnson, Boris
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kennedy, Seema
Kinahan, Danny
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Sir Greg
Knight, Julian
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Latham, Pauline
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Sir Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Mackinlay, Craig
Mackintosh, David
Main, Mrs Anne
Mak, Mr Alan
Malthouse, Kit
Mann, Scott
Mathias, Dr Tania
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McDonnell, Dr Alasdair
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Menzies, Mark
Merriman, Huw
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Mrs Maria
Milling, Amanda
Mills, Nigel
Milton, rh Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, rh Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Morton, Wendy
Mowat, David
Mundell, rh David
Murray, Mrs Sheryll
Newton, Sarah
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Dr Matthew
Opperman, Guy
Osborne, rh Mr George
Parish, Neil
Patel, rh Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, rh Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Philp, Chris
Pickles, rh Sir Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Prentis, Victoria
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pursglove, Tom
Quin, Jeremy
Quince, Will
Raab, Mr Dominic
Redwood, rh John
Rees-Mogg, Mr Jacob
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Robinson, Gavin
Robinson, Mary
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, rh Amber
Rutley, David
Scully, Paul
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, David
Simpson, rh Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Soames, rh Sir Nicholas
Solloway, Amanda
Soubry, rh Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Graham
Sturdy, Julian
Sunak, Rishi
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Thomas, Derek
Throup, Maggie
Timpson, Edward
Tolhurst, Kelly
Tomlinson, Justin
Tomlinson, Michael
Tracey, Craig
Tredinnick, David
Trevelyan, Mrs Anne-Marie
Truss, rh Elizabeth
Tugendhat, Tom
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, rh Mr Andrew
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Warburton, David
Warman, Matt
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Wharton, James
Whately, Helen
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, rh Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Williamson, rh Gavin
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wilson, Sammy
Wood, Mike
Wragg, William
Wright, Mr Iain
Wright, rh Jeremy
Zahawi, Nadhim
NOES
Ahmed-Sheikh, Ms Tasmina
Allen, Mr Graham
Arkless, Richard
Bardell, Hannah
Black, Mhairi
Blackford, Ian
Blackman, Kirsty
Boswell, Philip
Brake, rh Tom
Brock, Deidre
Brown, Alan
Cameron, Dr Lisa
Cherry, Joanna
Clegg, rh Mr Nick
Cowan, Ronnie
Crawley, Angela
Day, Martyn
Docherty-Hughes, Martin
Donaldson, Stuart Blair
Edwards, Jonathan
Fellows, Marion
Ferrier, Margaret
Gethins, Stephen
Gibson, Patricia
Grady, Patrick
Gray, Neil
Hendry, Drew
Kerevan, George
Kerr, Calum
Law, Chris
Lucas, Caroline
Mc Nally, John
McCaig, Callum
McDonald, Stuart C.
McGarry, Natalie
McLaughlin, Anne
Monaghan, Carol
Monaghan, Dr Paul
Mulholland, Greg
Mullin, Roger
Newlands, Gavin
Nicolson, John
O'Hara, Brendan
Oswald, Kirsten
Owen, Albert
Paterson, Steven
Pugh, John
Robertson, rh Angus
Saville Roberts, Liz
Sheppard, Tommy
Stephens, Chris
Thewliss, Alison
Thompson, Owen
Thomson, Michelle
Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mr Mark
Wilson, Corri
Wishart, Pete
Zeichner, Daniel
Question accordingly agreed to.
24 Feb 2016 : Column 426
24 Feb 2016 : Column 427
Road Traffic
That the draft Passenger and Goods Vehicles (Tachographs) (Amendment) Regulations 2016, which were laid before this House on 12 January, be approved.
The House divided:
Ayes 299, Noes 226.
Division No. 197]
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Allan, Lucy
Allen, Heidi
Amess, Sir David
Andrew, Stuart
Ansell, Caroline
Argar, Edward
Atkins, Victoria
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Mr Steve
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Sir Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Berry, James
Bingham, Andrew
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Borwick, Victoria
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, rh James
Bruce, Fiona
Buckland, Robert
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Sir Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Cairns, Alun
Cameron, rh Mr David
Carmichael, Neil
Cartlidge, James
Caulfield, Maria
Chalk, Alex
Chishti, Rehman
Churchill, Jo
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clegg, rh Mr Nick
Cleverly, James
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Costa, Alberto
Crabb, rh Stephen
Davies, Byron
Davies, Chris
Davies, David T. C.
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Dr James
Davies, Mims
Davis, rh Mr David
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Donelan, Michelle
Dorries, Nadine
Double, Steve
Dowden, Oliver
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Drummond, Mrs Flick
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Sir Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Elliott, Tom
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Mr Nigel
Evennett, rh Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Fernandes, Suella
Foster, Kevin
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Frazer, Lucy
Freeman, George
Fuller, Richard
Fysh, Marcus
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, rh Sir Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
Ghani, Nusrat
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Chris
Green, rh Damian
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Halfon, rh Robert
Hall, Luke
Hammond, rh Mr Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, rh Matthew
Hands, rh Greg
Harper, rh Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan
Heald, Sir Oliver
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Heaton-Jones, Peter
Henderson, Gordon
Hermon, Lady
Hinds, Damian
Hoare, Simon
Hollingbery, George
Hollinrake, Kevin
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Howlett, Ben
Huddleston, Nigel
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, rh Sajid
Jayawardena, Mr Ranil
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Jenkyns, Andrea
Jenrick, Robert
Johnson, Boris
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kennedy, Seema
Kinahan, Danny
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Sir Greg
Knight, Julian
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Latham, Pauline
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Sir Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Mackinlay, Craig
Mackintosh, David
Main, Mrs Anne
Mak, Mr Alan
Malthouse, Kit
Mann, Scott
Mathias, Dr Tania
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Menzies, Mark
Merriman, Huw
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Mrs Maria
Milling, Amanda
Mills, Nigel
Milton, rh Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, rh Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Morton, Wendy
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Murray, Mrs Sheryll
Newton, Sarah
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Dr Matthew
Opperman, Guy
Osborne, rh Mr George
Patel, rh Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, rh Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Philp, Chris
Pickles, rh Sir Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Prentis, Victoria
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Pursglove, Tom
Quin, Jeremy
Quince, Will
Raab, Mr Dominic
Redwood, rh John
Rees-Mogg, Mr Jacob
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Robinson, Mary
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, rh Amber
Rutley, David
Scully, Paul
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, rh Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Soames, rh Sir Nicholas
Solloway, Amanda
Soubry, rh Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Graham
Sturdy, Julian
Sunak, Rishi
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Thomas, Derek
Throup, Maggie
Timpson, Edward
Tolhurst, Kelly
Tomlinson, Justin
Tomlinson, Michael
Tracey, Craig
Tredinnick, David
Trevelyan, Mrs Anne-Marie
Truss, rh Elizabeth
Tugendhat, Tom
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, rh Mr Andrew
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Warburton, David
Warman, Matt
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Wharton, James
Whately, Helen
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, rh Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Mr Mark
Williamson, rh Gavin
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wood, Mike
Wragg, William
Wright, rh Jeremy
Zahawi, Nadhim
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ahmed-Sheikh, Ms Tasmina
Alexander, Heidi
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Arkless, Richard
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bardell, Hannah
Barron, rh Kevin
Beckett, rh Margaret
Benn, rh Hilary
Berger, Luciana
Black, Mhairi
Blackford, Ian
Blackman, Kirsty
Blackman-Woods, Dr Roberta
Blomfield, Paul
Boswell, Philip
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brock, Deidre
Brown, Alan
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Bryant, Chris
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Butler, Dawn
Byrne, rh Liam
Cadbury, Ruth
Cameron, Dr Lisa
Campbell, rh Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Chapman, Jenny
Cherry, Joanna
Coffey, Ann
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, rh Jeremy
Cowan, Ronnie
Cox, Jo
Coyle, Neil
Crausby, Mr David
Crawley, Angela
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cummins, Judith
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Dakin, Nic
David, Wayne
Day, Martyn
De Piero, Gloria
Docherty-Hughes, Martin
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, Stuart Blair
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Dowd, Peter
Dromey, Jack
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Fellows, Marion
Ferrier, Margaret
Field, rh Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Fletcher, Colleen
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Gardiner, Barry
Gethins, Stephen
Gibson, Patricia
Goodman, Helen
Grady, Patrick
Gray, Neil
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Greenwood, Margaret
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Carolyn
Hayes, Helen
Hayman, Sue
Healey, rh John
Hendry, Drew
Hillier, Meg
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Huq, Dr Rupa
Hussain, Imran
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Gerald
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Kane, Mike
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Kerevan, George
Kerr, Calum
Kinnock, Stephen
Kyle, Peter
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Law, Chris
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Long Bailey, Rebecca
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian C.
Lynch, Holly
Mactaggart, rh Fiona
Madders, Justin
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr Gordon
Maskell, Rachael
Mc Nally, John
McCabe, Steve
McCaig, Callum
McCarthy, Kerry
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonald, Stuart C.
McDonnell, Dr Alasdair
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGarry, Natalie
McGinn, Conor
McInnes, Liz
McKinnell, Catherine
McLaughlin, Anne
McMahon, Jim
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miliband, rh Edward
Monaghan, Carol
Monaghan, Dr Paul
Morden, Jessica
Morris, Grahame M.
Mullin, Roger
Murray, Ian
Newlands, Gavin
Nicolson, John
O'Hara, Brendan
Onn, Melanie
Osamor, Kate
Oswald, Kirsten
Owen, Albert
Paterson, Steven
Pearce, Teresa
Pennycook, Matthew
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Powell, Lucy
Qureshi, Yasmin
Rayner, Angela
Reed, Mr Steve
Rees, Christina
Reynolds, Jonathan
Ritchie, Ms Margaret
Robertson, rh Angus
Robinson, Gavin
Rotheram, Steve
Ryan, rh Joan
Saville Roberts, Liz
Shah, Naz
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Sheppard, Tommy
Sherriff, Paula
Simpson, David
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Cat
Smith, Jeff
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Stephens, Chris
Stevens, Jo
Streeting, Wes
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, rh Ms Gisela
Tami, Mark
Thewliss, Alison
Thomas-Symonds, Nick
Thompson, Owen
Thomson, Michelle
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Turley, Anna
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, Valerie
Watson, Mr Tom
West, Catherine
Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
Williams, Hywel
Wilson, Corri
Wilson, Sammy
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Dame Rosie
Wishart, Pete
Woodcock, John
Wright, Mr Iain
Zeichner, Daniel
Question accordingly agreed to.
24 Feb 2016 : Column 428
24 Feb 2016 : Column 429
24 Feb 2016 : Column 430
24 Feb 2016 : Column 431
24 Feb 2016 : Column 432