Formal minutes
Tuesday 29 October2019
Members present:
Pete Wishart, in the Chair
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Deidre Brock David Duguid Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen John Lamont |
Paul Masterton Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone Ross Thomson |
Draft Report, (Problem Drug Use in Scotland) proposed by the Chair, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 67 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 68 read.
Amendment proposed, after “approach.” to insert
“However, we also heard that the Misuse of Drugs Act acts as an important sanction to send a clear message against acts that, on a societal level, should be discouraged as they often lead to problem drug use.”– (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, to delete “substantially reformed” and insert “reviewed” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 3 David Duguid John Lamont Ross Thomson |
Noes, 7 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Paul Masterton Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 68 agreed to.
Paragraphs 69 to 85 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 85 read.
Amendment proposed, to leave out “Safe consumption facilities are proven to” and insert
“Our evidence indicates that safe consumption facilities can help” – (David Duguid)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 3 David Duguid John Lamont Ross Thomson |
Noes, 7 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Paul Masterton Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 85 agreed to.
Paragraphs 86 to 92 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 93 read.
Amendment proposed, to leave out paragraph 93 and insert
“We heard mixed evidence on the potential costs and benefits of a safe consumption facility in Glasgow. While some witnesses argued that it could be a practical step to reducing the number of drug-related deaths in Glasgow, we also heard that the operation of such facilities could only serve to facilitate addiction and undermine efforts to deter drug use. We recommend that the UK Government does not support a proposed pilot safe consumption facility in Glasgow at this stage.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 3 David Duguid John Lamont Ross Thomson |
Noes, 7 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Paul Masterton Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 93 agreed to.
Paragraphs 94 to 100 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 101 read.
Amendment proposed, to leave out
“We recommend that the UK Government brings forward the legislation necessary to allow for the lawful establishment of a pilot safe consumption facility in Scotland. If the UK Government is unwilling to do so, it must instead devolve competence for drugs legislation to the Scottish Parliament, so that it can implement the health approach it deems to be in Scotland’s best interest.”
And insert
“We recommend that, while the current legal framework persists, the Scottish Government focusses its efforts on revising its broader drugs strategy; and only revisits the option of a safe consumption facility after options within its current range of powers have been exhausted.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 3 David Duguid John Lamont Ross Thomson |
Noes, 7 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Paul Masterton Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, to leave out
“If the UK Government is unwilling to do so, it must instead devolve competence for drugs legislation to the Scottish Parliament, so that it can implement the health approach it deems to be in Scotland’s best interest.” – (Paul Masterton)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Amendment negatived.
Paragraph 101 agreed to.
Paragraphs 102 to 113 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 114 read.
Amendment proposed, to leave out “Decriminalisation of the possession of drugs for personal use is an evidence-based solution to problem drug use.”
And insert
“The evidence on the effectiveness of decriminalisation of the possession of drugs for personal use is mixed; and in the most positive example of its implementation—Portugal—it formed part of a well-funded, joined-up approach that included tougher measures to restrict the supply of drugs.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, to leave out “There is a strong case for doing this across the UK, as decriminalisation is proven to addresses the root causes of problem drug use.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, to leave out “would also” insert “could” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, after “supply chain” to insert
“, although this may prove difficult if a further round of devolution were to allow for two or more separate regimes on drugs within the United Kingdom,” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, at end of paragraph to insert “However, there is not necessarily a conflict between not decriminalising personal drug possession and focussing on tackling supply and assisting people in recovery.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 114 agreed to.
Paragraphs 115 to 124 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 125 read.
Amendment proposed, to leave out “but believe that statutory decriminalisation is a preferable solution which removes the legal ambiguities inherent in non-statutory approaches”
And insert
“and would recommend that, if it so wishes, the Scottish Government should implement these approaches more fully in Scotland before either requesting more powers or calling for statutory decriminalisation.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 125 agreed to.
Paragraph 126 read.
Amendment proposed, to leave out “We also believe that decriminalisation should be implemented by elected and accountable politicians. Whilst”
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed to leave out paragraph 126 – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 126 agreed to.
Paragraph 127 read.
Amendment proposed, to delete paragraph 127, and insert
“We recommend that the UK Government review current criminal procedures relating to the possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use across the whole of the UK, while taking into account the possibility that decriminalisation could fuel an open market for organised crime, and also lead to increased drug use and, by extension, increased problem drug use. In the meantime, the Home Office should remind all police forces across the UK of the option to introduce diversion schemes.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 127 agreed to.
Paragraph 128 to 131 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 132 read.
Amendment proposed, to delete “However, we are not convinced by the minister’s argument that decriminalisation, in Scotland or the whole of the UK, would undermine these efforts, as the decriminalisation of possession for personal use would not alter the illegality of organised crime groups supplying illicit drugs, which this joint work seeks to address.”– (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, After “seeks to address” insert “While” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, at end insert “, this should not be seen as a zero-sum choice. Both Governments should commit to redoubling their efforts to combat the corruption that facilitates the supply of drugs, in particular in ports, airports, and prisons.” - (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 132 agreed to.
Paragraphs 133 to 138 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 139 read.
Amendment proposed, at delete paragraph 139 and insert
“While some witnesses advocated the legalisation of drugs, we also heard that legalisation would carry with it the real risk of creating a commercial drug industry like that which exists for alcohol and tobacco. Moreover, as the example of Canada demonstrates, legalisation does not necessary eliminate the illicit drug trade wholesale. We are furthermore concerned that decriminalisation may prove a slippery slope towards legalisation.” - (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Paragraph 139 agreed to.
Paragraph 139 to 154 read and agreed to.
Summary read.
Amendment proposed, in paragraph 3 of the summary to leave out “are proven to” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 3 David Duguid John Lamont Ross Thomson |
Noes, 7 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Paul Masterton Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, in paragraph 3 of the summary to leave out
“We are therefore disappointed that the Home Office has blocked the proposal despite the overwhelming evidence that they work, and are not made the legal changes necessary to allow such a facility to be opened. We therefore recommend that the UK Government brings forward the legislation necessary to allow for the lawful establishment of a pilot safe drug consumption facility in Scotland. If the UK Government is unwilling to do this, we argue that it should devolve the necessary powers to allow the Scottish Parliament to do so.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 3 David Duguid John Lamont Ross Thomson |
Noes, 7 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Paul Masterton Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, in paragraph 3 of the summary to leave out
“If the UK Government is unwilling to do this, we argue that it should devolve the necessary powers to allow the Scottish Parliament to do so.” – (Paul Masterton.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, in paragraph 4 of the summary to leave out “caused by the criminalisation of drugs” and insert “associated with problem drug use”. – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, in paragraph 4 of the summary delete “We recommend that the UK Government commits to decriminalisation ” and insert “We recommend that the UK Government considers decriminalisation” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, in paragraph 4 of the summary at end of paragraph insert “; and call on the Scottish Government to first consider using its existing powers to emulate in Scotland the localised de facto decriminalisation schemes in place in other parts of the United Kingdom” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Amendment proposed, in paragraph 6 of the summary at end of paragraph insert “Given that the rate of drug deaths is considerably higher in Scotland than in England and Wales, we believe that the Scottish Government should first seek to use its existing powers to implement our recommendations insofar as possible, before considering requesting any additional devolution of powers.” – (Ross Thomson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
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Ayes, 4 David Duguid John Lamont Paul Masterton Ross Thomson |
Noes, 6 Deidre Brock Hugh Gaffney Ged Killen Danielle Rowley Tommy Sheppard Jamie Stone |
Question negatived.
Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the First Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chair make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available (Standing Order No. 134).
[Adjourned till at time and place to be determined the Chair .
Published: 4 November 2019