Formal minutes
Extract from House of Lords Minute of 6 April
2004
Charities—It was moved by the Lord President
(Baroness Amos) that it is expedient that a Joint Committee of
Lords and Commons be appointed to consider and report on any draft
Charities Bill presented to both Houses by a Minister of the Crown,
and that the Committee should report on the draft Bill by 30th
September 2004; the motion was agreed to.
Extract from the Votes and Proceedings of the
House of Commons 29 April 2004
Draft Charities Bill (Joint Committee), — Ordered,
That the Lords Message of 19th April relating to a Joint Committee
of both Houses to consider and report on any draft Charities Bill
presented to both Houses by a Minister of the Crown, be now considered.
That this House concurs with the Lords that it is
expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed
to consider and report on any draft Charities Bill presented to
both Houses by a Minister of the Crown, and that the Committee
shall report on the draft Bill by 30th September 2004.
That a Select Committee of six honourable Members
be appointed to join with the Committee appointed by the Lords
to consider the draft Charities Bill.
That the Committee shall have power-
(i) to send for persons, papers and records;
(ii) to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the
House;
(iii) to report from time to time;
(iv) to appoint specialist advisers;
(v) to adjourn from place to place within the United
Kingdom; and
That the quorum of the Committee shall be two.
That Mr Alan Campbell, Mr George Foulkes, Ms Sally
Keeble, Mr Alan Milburn, Mr Andrew Mitchell and Bob Russell be
members of the Committee. — (Paul Clark.)
Extract from the House of Lords Minute of 10 May
2004
Charities—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees
that the Commons message of 4th May be now considered, and that
a Committee of six Lords be appointed to join with the Committee
appointed by the Commons to consider and report on any draft Charities
Bill presented to both Houses by a Minister of the Crown;
That, as proposed by the Committee of Selection,
the Lords following be named of the Committee:
| L. Best
E. Caithness
L. Campbell-Savours
| B. McIntosh of Hudnall
L. Phillips of Sudbury
L. Sainsbury of Preston Candover;
|
That the Committee have power to agree with the Commons
in the appointment of a Chairman;
That the Committee have leave to report from time
to time;
That the Committee have power to appoint specialist
advisers;
That the Committee have power to adjourn from place
to place within the United Kingdom;
That the quorum of the Committee shall be two;
That the reports of the Committee from time to time
shall be printed, notwithstanding any adjournment of the House;
and
That the Committee do report on the draft Bill by
30th September 2004;
the motion was agreed to and a message was ordered
to be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
Proceedings of the Joint Committee
Wednesday 12 May 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Lord Campbell-Savours
Earl of Caithness
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Rt Hon Alan Milburn
Mr Andrew Mitchell
|
The Orders of Reference are read.
The declarations of relevant interests are made:
Lord Best declared an interest as Director (Chief
Executive) of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the Joseph Rowntree
Housing Trust (both bodies are charities), member of the Foundation
Forum, the Advisory Council of the National Council of Voluntary
Organisations and the Council for Charitable Support.
The Earl of Caithness declared an interest as Trustee
and Chief Executive, Clan Sinclair Trust, Trustee, Castle of Mey
Trust and Chairman, Caithness Archaeological Trust.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall declared an interest
as Trustee - National Endowment for Science, Technology and the
Arts (NESTA), Theatres Trust, South Bank Sinfonia, Art Inter-Romania,
Peggy Ramsay Foundation; Board Member - The Roundhouse Trust,
Almeida Theatre, Welsh National Opera, Foundation for Sports and
the Arts; Chairman and Trustee, Royal National Theatre Foundation.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury declared an interest as
self-employed partner in Bates, Wells and Braithwaite (London)
Solicitors acting for a substantial number of charities; Gainsborough's
House, Sudbury, Suffolk; President, Citizenship Foundation (a
charity); President, Solicitors Pro Bono Group (a charity); Trustee,
Phillips Fund (a charity); Trustee, ICNL Trust (a charity); President,
Sudbury Society (a charity); Committee, Council for Charitable
Support; Trustee, Me-Too (a charity); a few client trusts and
client executorships/trusteeships in relation to wills; Age Concern
Funeral Trust.
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover declared an interest
as Chairman of the Trustees of The Royal Opera House Endowment
Fund; Trustee of: the Linbury Trust (a grant-giving charitable
trust founded in 1970's), the Ashmolean and the Rambert School
of Ballet and Contemporary Dance.
Rt Hon George Foulkes declared an interest as Trustee
of Burns House; former Director of Age Concern (Scotland)
Rt Hon Alan Milburn declared an interest as a Member
of Amnesty International; Honorary President of Darlington YMCA,
Darlington Mencap and Darlington Arthritis Care
Mr Andrew Mitchell declared an interest as Trustee
of GAP (Gap Activity Projects); Management Committee SOS SAHEL;
ESU International Debate Committee; Vice Chairman of Alexandra
Rose Day; President Norman Laud Association (all charities)
It is moved that the Rt Hon Alan Milburn do take
the Chair.—(Earl of Caithness.)
The same is agree to.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
Ordered, That Strangers
be admitted during the examination of witnesses unless otherwise
ordered.
Ordered, That the uncorrected
transcripts of oral evidence given, unless the Committee otherwise
orders, be published on the Internet.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 19 May at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 19 May 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 12 May are read.
The following declaration of relevant interests is
made:
Bob Russell declared an interest as Secretary of
the all-party Scout Group and trustee of the St Mary Magdalen
Almshouses Charity.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
Ordered, That Professor
Jean Warburton be appointed as Specialist Adviser to assist the
Committee in its inquiry into the Draft Charities Bill.
Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned to
Wednesday 26 May at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 26 May 2004
Members present:
| Lord Best
Earl of Caithness
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 19 May are read.
The following declaration of relevant interests is
made:
Ms Sally Keeble declared an interest as a member
of a commission of inquiry for the Association of Chief Executives
of Voluntary Organisations, membership of the management committee
of a young persons charity and Patron of the Friends of the Lakes.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
Ordered, That Margaret
Bolton be appointed as Specialist Adviser to assist the Committee
in its inquiry into the Draft Charities Bill.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 9 June at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 9 June 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Earl of Caithness
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 26 May are read.
The following declaration of relevant interests is
made:
Bob Russell declared an interest as a parliamentary
adviser to the Royal British Legion.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
The following witnesses are examined:
Mr Stuart Etherington, National Council of Voluntary
Organisations; Mr Stephen Bubb, Association of Chief Executives
of Voluntary Organisations; Ms Mary Marsh, National Society for
the prevention of Cruelty to Children; Dr John Low, Royal National
Institute for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing People.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 16 June at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 16 June 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
In the absence of the Chairman, Mr George Foulkes is called
to the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 9 June are read.
The following declaration of relevant interests are
made:
Lord Sainsbury and Lord Best declared interests in
relation to the Association of Charitable Foundations.
Lord Phillips declared an interest as a member of
the Charity Law Association.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
The following witnesses are examined:
Mr Christopher Spence, Volunteering England; Mr David
Emerson, Association of Charitable Foundations and Ms Rhona Howarth,
Governance Works;
Mr Stephen Lloyd and Ms Judith Hill, Charity Law
Association.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 23 June at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 23 June 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 16 June are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
The following witnesses are examined:
Mr Andrew Watt, Institute of Fundraising; Mr Owen
Watkins, Public Fund-raising Regulatory Association; Councillor
Ian Green, Local Government Association; Ms Pippa Coombes, Institute
of Licensing;
Mr Pesh Framjee and Ms Helen Verney, Charity Finance
Directors' Group;
Mr Stephen Alambritis, Federation of Small Businesses.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 30 June at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 30 June 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 23 June are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
The following witnesses are examined:
Dr Martin Stephen, Manchester Grammar School and
Chairman of the Headmasters' and Headmistresses Conference; Dr
Anthony Seldon, Brighton College; Sir Ewan Harper, Church Schools
Council; Mr Jonathan Shephard, Independent Schools Council and
Mr Jack Jones, Nuffield Hospitals.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 7 July at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 7 July 2004
Present:
|
Lord Best
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 30 June are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
The following witnesses are examined:
Ms Geraldine Peacock, Chair designate, Ms Rosie Chapman,
Director of Policy and Strategy, and Mr Kenneth Dibble, Director
of Legal Services, Charity Commission.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 14 July at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 14 July 2004
Present:
| Earl of Caithness
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 7 July are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
The following witnesses are examined:
Mr Kevin Curley, National Association of Councils
for Voluntary Service; Mr Jonathan Moore, Suffolk Council for
Voluntary Service; Mr Mark Lattimer, Minority Rights Group International,
Ms Ila Chandavarkar, Minority Ethnic Network Eastern Region and
Mr Peter Finney, Myasthenia Gravis Association.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to this day at 2.30 p.m.
Wednesday 14 July 2004
Present:
| Earl of Caithness
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 14 July are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
The following witnesses are examined:
Major Michael Adler; Mr Daoud Rosser-Owen, Religions
Working Together and Mr Andrew Britton, Churches Main Committee.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 21 July at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 21 July 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Earl of Caithness
Lord Campbell-Savours
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 14 July are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
The following witnesses are examined:
Fiona Mactaggart MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary
of State for Race Equality, Community Policy and Civil Renewal
and Mr Richard Corden, Bill team manager, Home Office.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 8 September at 9.00 a.m.
Wednesday 8 September 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Earl of Caithness
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 21 July are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to this day at 2.45 p.m.
Wednesday 8 September 2004
Present:
|
Lord Best
Earl of Caithness
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
Rt Hon Alan Milburn, in the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 8 September are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be adjourned to Wednesday 15 September at 9.00a.m.
Wednesday 15 September 2004
Present:
| Lord Best
Lord Campbell-Savours
Earl of Caithness
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover
| | Mr Alan Campbell
Rt Hon George Foulkes
Ms Sally Keeble
Mr Andrew Mitchell
Bob Russell
|
In the absence of the Chairman, Mr George Foulkes is called
to the Chair
The Order of Adjournment is read.
The proceedings of Wednesday 8 September are read.
The Joint Committee deliberate.
It is moved that the draft Report before the Committee
be read.
The same is agreed to.
Paragraphs 1 to 407 are agreed to
Resolved, That the draft
Report be the Report of the Committee to both Houses.
Ordered, That the following
paper be appended to the Report:
Schedule of detailed points made about the draft
Bill by witnesses, together with the Government response.
Ordered, That the memoranda
received by the Committee be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.
Ordered, That the provisions
of Commons Standing Order No. 134 (Select committees (reports))
be applied to the Report.
Ordered, That Mr George
Foulkes do make the report to the House of Commons and The Earl
of Caithness do make the report to the House of Lords.
Ordered, That the Joint
Committee be now adjourned.
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