Examination of Witnesses (Questions 635
- 639)
WEDNESDAY 7 JULY 2004
MS GERALDINE
PEACOCK, MS
ROSIE CHAPMAN
AND MR
KENNETH DIBBLE
Q635 Chairman: Good morning and I
am sorry for the slight delay. Would you mind introducing yourselves
by saying who you are and what your title is.
Ms Peacock: I am Geraldine Peacock
and I am, as of tomorrow, Chief Commissioner and Chair designate
for the Charity Commission.
Ms Chapman: I am Rosie Chapman,
Director of Policy and Strategy for the Charity Commission.
Mr Dibble: I am Kenneth Dibble,
Director of Legal Services for the Charity Commission.
Q636 Chairman: Thank you for coming
and welcome. We have had an opportunity to hear from you in private
session but this is our first public session with the Commission.
Welcome first of all, Geraldine; it is an impressive way to start
your job today! I wondered first of all whether you might just
say a word or two about the Bill overall. One of the things you
have said, I think in today's Guardian newspaper, which
interested me was that what is in and what is out of the legislation
is fiddling around the edges, which has been of great comfort
to all Committee members! Why did you say that and what did you
mean?
Ms Peacock: I think the importance
of the Bill is crucial in two ways. First of all, we need a legal
framework which is relevant to the modern times and a lot is happening
in charity work, particularly in the wider sense of charitable
activity and non-profit, or as the Americans like to call it beyond
profit, activities. It is becoming a very vital part of the social
economy and we need a legal framework which is flexible and which
can respond to the rapidly changing activities and foci of charities
and non-profit organisations. I think the other thing is that
the way in which this draft Bill has been formulated has been
pretty unique in that, for the first time, the sector feels really
involved, committed and consulted by Government in the process
of formulating this legislation. So, I think there is the legal
need for modern workable legislation and the cultural psychological
need for the sector to see its joint activity with Government
reflected in a really good, robust legal framework which plays
out well in practice.
Q637 Chairman: So, it is not fiddling
around the edges, it is crucial?
Ms Peacock: The legislation is
crucial, red herrings and sidetracking I think would be a high
price to pay for not having the Bill at all.
Q638 Chairman: The wording that you
used here is distinct from the wording that you used in The
Guardian and are the words that you think is the Charity Commission's
view, that the Bill is crucial?
Ms Peacock: Yes, I think the Bill
is crucial. The words used in The Guardian and the words
that are reported are not necessarily the words I spoke.
Q639 Chairman: That old problem which
I am very familiar with, unfortunately! What difference, if the
Bill is crucial, is the Bill going to make to the vast majority
of charities that you regulate or will be regulating which are
not all large organisations but are small, voluntary run without
professional staff often operating on a shoestring and which find
that, frankly, the last thing they need is an overbearing, over-weaning
and over-regulating Charity Commission breathing down their necks?
Ms Peacock: I would hate to be
head of something that might be described in that kind of way
and I do not, in all fairness, think that the Charity Commission
is like that now and I certainly want to build on the good aspects
that will make sure that it is not like that in the future. I
believe the role of the modern regulator is not to hide behind
trees waiting to jump out and get people when they do something
wrong. I suppose that I believe the role of the Regulator is to
try and empower and enable people to be accountable for themselves.
So, what I see is the benefit of this legislation is that it gives
much better clarity to the scope of charitable activity and it
gives the Regulator a chance to work with people and do things
with the public and with charities themselves to establish what
is good practice within the pre-legislatory framework and that
involves public consultation perhaps much more than we have had
in the past.
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