Examination of Witnesses (Questions 140
- 144)
WEDNESDAY 25 FEBRUARY 2004
MR NEIL
BETTERIDGE, MS
ANN BATES
AND MR
GRAHAME LAWSON
Q140 Miss Begg: Moving on to the
Blue Badge, I chair the Traffic Management Bill and I was very
aware that there was an amendment down which was withdrawn because
the Minister did give an assurance that he would come back. I
spoke to the Minister the other day and he reiterated that there
would be the changes to the regulations governing the Blue Badge,
particularly on enforcement. Would you prefer to see that kind
of provision or these changes to the Blue Badge scheme through
the Traffic Management Bill or the Draft Disability Discrimination
Bill?
Mr Betteridge: Going back to the
point about outcomes being more important than outputs, as long
as it happens is one answer! We know that the Government have
accepted the recommendations made by DPTAC around the Blue Badge
scheme which do need primary legislation. There are three main
issues that need to be picked up through primary legislation,
and I think the Traffic Management Bill can provide an ideal home
for at least one of those. However, we cannot be sure and if you
cannot be sure certainly we cannot, so I think it is important
that that does not disappear from the agenda of this piece of
legislation because we cannot miss two opportunities to find long-awaited
legislative homes for recommendations that are so important in
making sure the Blue Badge scheme recovers some of its robustness
and how it operates.
Q141 Miss Begg: So it is a case of
warning this Committee to keep a watching brief on what happens
at the first stage?
Mr Betteridge: Yes.
Q142 Miss Begg: My worry with the
Traffic Management Bill is that there is the odd bit that applies
in Scotland but the vast majority of it does not. Would there
have to be extra provisions to make sure that obviously the section
on the Blue Badge did apply in Scotland?
Mr Lawson: There are three points
that we believe require primary legislation. Certainly in terms
of promoting powers of inspection, that would seem to sit readily
with the Traffic Management Bill if the Government were so minded.
Regarding an alternative wording to the use of "institutional"
and the creation of a national database, there may be some question
about where these two particular aspects lie but the key point
from our point of view is that all three are covered one way or
another within one or more of these two bills because there has
been a commitment by Government to early action on this. But going
back to the issue of enforcement, my Lord, the powers of enforcement
do exist in Scotland already. We did talk about anticipating,
and I am pleased to say that the Scottish Parliament
anticipated this recommendation from DPTAC and made provision
for it in the 2001 Transport Act. The Regulations relating to
this were brought in at the end of last year and came into effect,
in fact, on 1 January this year, so police and parking attendants
in Scotland do now have the powers to inspect Blue Badges.
Miss Begg: Well, they have not asked
me yet!
Q143 Chairman: I understand that
the Traffic Management Bill is still in Committee in the Commons
so there are a further four stages if you include the Lords in
which the bill can be amended, so there is time to do it if the
intention is there. Are there any comments you would like to make,
other than those you have already made, about the draft bill?
Mr Betteridge: If I may, just
to conclude, there is one point of process. DPTAC was extremely
disappointed that it took four to six weeks for the bill to be
put into accessible formats—
Q144 Chairman: You are entitled to
be; that is quite right. That is a matter for the department and
not this Committee, but I am pleased you said it.
Mr Betteridge: More positively,
we believe now the important opportunities are around practicable
yet urgent implementation of these measures. Further delays really
cannot be accepted, certainly by disabled people, and I sincerely
believe that industry now wants some clarity and specific timetabling,
and that the Government has a leadership role to play here in
putting forward at least provisional timetabling and scheduling
that we can consult all the relevant stakeholders on. So we do
make this a practicable as well as an aspirational exercise. Finally,
there is not just something in this for disabled people—which
there is, of course, if we improve mobility; not just something
in it for industry—which, of course, there is if we increase
their customer base; but something in it for all of us including
Government, because if disabled people cannot travel and if mobility
continues to be severely hampered in comparison with other members
of society, then other Government policies, ones which are likely
to remain whatever the political hue of the Government of the
day is, will be undermined, whether it is prompt hospital discharge,
independent living, healthy ageing or welfare to work. All of
these policies will be significantly undermined without effective
legislation relating transport to the understandable and very
reasonable wishes of disabled people to have the same rights to
travel as everyone else.
Chairman: That is an excellent summary,
thank you. I think we can all agree that if you ask any disabled
person which area of this bill has the most day-to-day and practical
effect on the way they live, it is transport. Thank you; you have
been extremely helpful.
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