Examination of Witnesses (Questions 400
- 410)
WEDNESDAY 17 MARCH 2004
MS ANDRE«E
DEANE, MR
STEPHEN DOBLE
AND MR
KEVIN SMYTH
Q400 Lord Rix: Tom Clarke said the
rest of Part 3 of the DDA means that it would be "impossible
or unreasonably difficult" for a disabled person to access
goods or services. We have heard evidence from disability groups
that they would prefer the trigger to be "substantial disadvantage",
which is perhaps clearer. Would you have any difficulty with that
as opposed to "impossible" or "unreasonably difficult"?
Mr Smyth: I would not.
Ms Deane: No.
Q401 Lord Rix: You would have no
difficulty?
Ms Deane: No.
Mr Smyth: No.
Mr Doble: No.
Q402 Lord Tebbit: Looking at clubs
again, would it be reasonable to expect clubs to go so far as
to provide written information which exists about the club and
its benefits, to provide that in the form of audio tapes or in
braille, or do you think it should only be if there is a demand
for it?
Mr Smyth: I have not heard of
a demand for it. Nevertheless, I do not think it is a bad idea.
Possibly the umbrella organisations—like the Association
of Conservative Clubs or Liberal or Labour Clubs like ourselves—could
perhaps supply something in braille in general terms: because
the information in one club is very similar to another. Obviously
they have their own certain peculiarities, but I think the umbrella
organisations could do it quite reasonably and quite cheaply and
then make it available to the individual members of that organisation.
Q403 Lord Tebbit: That would not
concern you at all, a requirement of that kind?
Mr Smyth: No.
Q404 Lord Swinfen: What about safety
advice on equipment in the fitness industry?
Ms Deane: In braille?
Q405 Lord Swinfen: Would that be
reasonable in either braille or audio tapes?
Ms Deane: I would completely agree
with the previous comment that for our smaller organisations,
for our smaller members, it is probably a duty of the FIA as the
trade association to provide some generic material that would
be appropriate. However, some of our larger operators with over
4,000 members, I think it is their duty to provide that information
and a lot of them already do.
Lord Rix: Audio tape, Braille. Would
you also add to that "easy to read language", please,
for those with a learning disability.
Q406 Lord Swinfen: The draft Bill,
as you probably know, proposes to exclude from the legislation
any club with fewer than 25 members. Do you support that proposal?
Do you think it reasonable?
Mr Smyth: To be honest, under
the Licensing Act you cannot have a club with under 25 members.
They do not qualify.
Lord Swinfen: I wonder if the people
who drafted the Bill knew that.
Q407 Chairman: That is very helpful.
Thank you very much indeed. Can I go on to the next question,
which is an important one? Section 21H(2) provides that guests
of members may be brought within the DDA at some point in the
future. It has been argued to us, and this will not surprise you,
that guests should be included in the Bill now. Would you support
this?
Mr Doble: I think I probably would
not at the moment.
Q408 Chairman: You would not?
Mr Doble: I probably would not.
I think it needs a lot of consultation and consideration at a
later stage when you see what the reactions to the present suggestions
are. I, of course, go back to the fact that the Private Members
Club Organisation is completely different to the other organisations
here.
Q409 Chairman: Would your members
not, in fact, find it embarrassing if they came with a disabled
guest and they were excluded in some way?
Mr Doble: Absolutely. I go back
to the point I was making earlier, that you would expect a member
and a guest to be treated in exactly the same way as if you were
in a second home. Therefore, I do not feel at the moment that
legislation in this respect is appropriate.
Mr Smyth: I would say, yes. It
is a members' club, so let's get it working okay for members.
So if we are saying we are not entirely happy with the legislation
for members, then I think we would be hypocritical if we said
it could be for their guests. If we agree that it comes into effect
for members, then I think obviously guests would come along as
well; but if we say let's go a little bit slower on the members
side, let it evolve, then I think it should evolve for the guests
as well as the members.
Q410 Chairman: So you are up for
evolution rather than them being included specifically in the
Bill?
Mr Smyth: I am really, because
my information, which I only finalised today, shows what has been
done tremendously. Eighty per cent say they have done something
quite dramatic in the last few years, and also, in our organisation,
we have found that 56% of clubs are only on the one ground level
anyway—they do not have an upstairs—so many of the
problems do not exist. So things have happened, I dare say because
of other legislation, but it seems to be working: people seem
to be caring more and thinking more about it and I think it is
evolving quite well.
Ms Deane: Guests of health club
members, the majority of them, are entitled access to a facility
by paying for the goods and services, and so therefore we have
always been covered.
Chairman: Exactly. That is what I thought.
Thank you very much indeed. It has been extremely helpful. If
there is anything else you feel after you have reflected on the
evidence that you would like to write to us. The transcript, as
I have said, will be on the website within a few days, if you
would like to read that. Anything else you wish to add, you are
welcome. Thank you very much indeed.
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