Examination of Witnesses (Questions 640
- 643)
TUESDAY 30 MARCH 2004
MR ANTHONY
ROBINSON, DAME
JOAN HARBISON
AND MR
DON LEESON
Q640 Lord Swinfen: The draft bill
would make it unlawful to discriminate in advertisements that
relate only to employment but not occupational pension schemes.
What experience do you have of taking enforcement action against
discriminatory advertisements that relate to other issues?
Mr Robinson: In 2002 the Commission
dealt with 31 non-employment cases, in 2003 we dealt with 26,
and so far this year we have dealt with three non-employment cases.
Q641 Lord Swinfen: The DDA defines
advertisement as including "every form of advertisement or
notice, whether to the public or not". The Race Relations
Act and the Sex Discrimination Act and parallel order in Northern
Ireland include the same statement followed by a number of examples
of types of advertisements or notice and the statement that "references
to publishing of advertisements shall be construed accordingly".
Do you see any advantages in the more detailed definition under
that legislation?
Mr Robinson: Yes, I think it does
help to have some more clarity. It is not very often that we have
had very difficult legal cases around the issue but any clarification
of the legislation would be welcome.
Dame Joan Harbison: I think it
is always easier to enforce something if there are exemplars of
the direction in which you might go and which make it clear what
is meant. I think that sort of approach is extremely useful. We
are doing a review currently of discriminatory advertising in
terms of religion and political opinion but we have had very little
experience although we have had one rather nasty race advertisement
in terms of stereotyping a racial group which we managed to deal
with just without going to legislation, we consulted with them,
discussed with them and they changed it. We have had really very
little experience of this. We have had lots of debates about discriminatory
advertising in terms of religion and political opinion but we
have had very little yet in terms of race.
Mr Leeson: Can I say that I think
this is going to be a particularly useful power given to the Commission
when we get it. It is an area—advertisements—in respect
of disabilities where discrimination is much more indirect and
much more subtle when it is looking at educational qualifications,
driving licences and stuff that you would not necessarily say
was direct discrimination but when you peel back the assumptions
and what the employers are looking for, whether deliberately or
unconsciously, you are finding discriminatory practices. I think
if we can start to challenge some of those, then we may start
to challenge some of the stereotypes that employers have about
disabled people and employing them.
Q642 Chairman: Can I just go on to
the important question of volunteers. Several witnesses have proposed
that volunteers should be protected under the DDA. Given the wide
range of activities that comprise voluntary work, would you recommend
that all volunteers should have protection equivalent to the DDA
protection for employees, including the duty to make reasonable
adjustments?
Dame Joan Harbison: Yes, in a
word yes. All our experience is that volunteering is a very, very
important part of the fabric of Northern Ireland society. Very
many areas are very dependent on volunteering and volunteering
can very often be—not only in terms of disability but in
terms of women as well and other sectors—a stepping stone
into employment.
Q643 Chairman: Exactly.
Dame Joan Harbison: Certainly
it would be our view that on moral grounds as well as any other
grounds they ought to be protected from discrimination.
Mr Robinson: If I can say we see
volunteering as an important part of social life. It leads to
training opportunities, it leads to work and also it is part of
our human rights under the international covenant on economic
and social and cultural rights and the Council of Europe Social
Charter. We feel it is a right that must be protected.
Chairman: That is very helpful indeed.
It has been an extremely helpful session. I am sorry we were interrupted,
but at least we managed to coincide the Lords and the Commons
votes. If there is anything else that you would like to write
to us about, we would be very happy to receive it. The transcript
will be sent to you and also be published on the website. If you
would like to look at the transcripts of the other witnesses that
we have heard from and you would like to comment on those, you
are free to do so. It has been very helpful indeed. Thank you
very much.
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