Examination of Witnesses (Questions 300
- 311)
TUESDAY 6 JULY 2004
MR LLOYD
NATHAN, MR
PETER BACON,
MR ANDREW
TOTTENHAM, MR
TOBIN PRIOR,
MR STEVEN
EISNER AND
MR RODNEY
BRODY
Q300 Chairman: Mr Nathan?
Mr Nathan: Chairman, if I can
just clarify our level of comfort, it is a level of comfort with
the broad areas being identified at the regional level but not
the exact sites nor the exact number.
Q301 Chairman: Mr Tottenham?
Mr Tottenham: I would just like
to agree with regional planning boards' broad location but not
the absolute location, that will be determined, obviously, by
local authorities through the planning but it will be our choice,
also, providing that the same is true of our competitors, and
I mean all of our competitors. That goes to grandfather rights'
issues as well as D2 conversions.
Q302 Chairman: Are you relaxed about
having to contribute to regeneration benefits for an area? There
is some confusion about the extent to which the Government thinks
these should be a requirement of the legislation. Are you all
comfortable with the thought that you may have to contribute to
regeneration?
Mr Nathan: By definition the scope
and scale of what we build would lead to physical, social and
economic regeneration, and it would then be up to each local authority
to define that. We are talking about new jobs, aid in getting
those new jobs, training. The fact that then those jobs create
wealth and opportunities for an area, as well as increasing its
competitiveness, are obviously crucial components for any regeneration
strategy. If I might read into the record, to give you an idea
of scale, all the projects that we have entered into to date,
if they were successfully completed would represent an investment
of in excess of one billion pounds and the creation of over 30,000
jobs indirect and direct construction and operational.
Q303 Chairman: Mr Tottenham?
Mr Tottenham: I think that one
of the things where Caesar's operates, it is not a requirement
that they give money for regeneration, however voluntarily they
do contribute. They contribute considerable sums of money to a
fund annually which is used in the communities in which they sit.
Caesar's would be very happy to contribute to regeneration benefits
in an area over and above the investment it makes in the plant,
et cetera.
Q304 Chairman: Mr Bacon?
Mr Bacon: Our experience, Chairman,
is that there would be a requirement to make a contribution to
regeneration. I think if there are going to be fewer large casinos
we should expect to make a contribution. I think the difficulty
could arise if there is not absolute clarity with regard to the
process and the size of the cheque versus the suitability of the
project. That is a judgment call on the part of the local authority
actually granting the casino premises' licence. I think there
would be a need for some very clear guidelines to be issued by
the Gambling Commission or the Government.
Mr Eisner: I want to amplify in
our experience in casino entertainment projects that are of similar
size and scope to the 1,250 model of a regional casino here we
have seen substantial regeneration benefits to our communities
in the form of capital investment, job creation and the like,
even where it is not mandated by law. Our experience is a little
bit different possibly than some of our larger competitors but
it is the same concept.
Q305 Chairman: Our local authority
witnesses this morning conceded that in fact planning gain and
the requirement to contribute to regeneration or the fact the
regeneration flowed from the investment was not one and the same
thing. Do you have a concern that as well as the fact that you
are going to contribute to regeneration you will also have to
make a substantial contribution to other planning gain, some of
which may not necessarily be entirely linked to your development?
Mr Tottenham: I think we have
all been involved in certain sites where local authorities have
suggested areas that we may wish to invest over and above the
facilities, some of which are linked and some of which are not
linked. I do not see it as a problem. Again it is dependent upon
the location of the facility, the size of the investment and what
is being asked in addition.
Q306 Chairman: Mr Prior?
Mr Prior: I think to some extent
I have answered that in my previous answer. We are looking at
regeneration led initiatives and all of those do involve substantial
planning gain. I think we have addressed, in quite some detail
amongst us, that planning gain, as long as there are realistic
aspirations because the business with its cap on machines can
only generate a certain amount of it and can only invest in a
certain amount of facilities so it either goes into planning gain
or into the facilities direct. Obviously there is a concern as
to what the practical limits are.
Q307 Chairman: Mr Brody?
Mr Brody: I confer with that as
well. I would like to add, also, to emphasise our community ties
with our partners who we would then be involved with and how we
will be helping with the planning gain, helping with the regeneration
and also working very closely with our community partner which
in many cases will be a football club.
Q308 Lord Wade of Chorlton: Just
following on from what you have said in reply to that question.
If the region wants to regenerate some particular area that might
not have a lot of other facilities there, do you find the facilities
that you build will attract people in itself or have you got to
have other resources around it, either attractive countryside
or very good shopping facilities or other sources that will attract
them? I am looking at it from the point of view that certain regions
may want to regenerate areas where there are very few facilities
at all or they may want to use it in town centres where there
are a lot of other facilities. I wondered how you would be influenced
by those other facilities?
Mr Nathan: I do not think it is
necessarily a question of what facilities are there rather than
what population is there so maybe there are no facilities and
there is no population. On the assumption that there is population
there but no facilities we are very comfortable in building gaming
and non gaming amenities. In excess of 50% of our four billion
dollars of annual revenues is from non gaming.
Mr Prior: I would concur. I think
it is driven by the market that you think you can create for that
facility and it will vary from location to location.
Mr Bacon: If I could just add
to that, I think the critical mass of the facilities envisaged,
the regional casinos, will be such that they will be able to attract
people from the area and would not need to be next to other large
facilities or in the centre of cities.
Q309 Lord Wade of Chorlton: From
your experience people will travel a long distance to come to
your facilities?
Mr Bacon: Yes,because it will
be a worthwhile experience.
Q310 Lord Wade of Chorlton: If it
was in the middle of the desert people would still travel to it?
Mr Nathan: If I understand the
implication there—
Q311 Chairman: Is that what is meant
by Las Vegas Sands!
Mr Nathan: Chairman, that was
a monopoly, as you know, for many, many years.
Chairman: Okay. Thank you all very, very
much indeed. It has been a fascinating session. We are very grateful
to you for your time and, as I have said before, we are grateful
for the fact that some of the witnesses have travelled a long
way to be with us but in the case of one or two of you it is quite
a long way. The Committee stands adjourned until 9.30 on Thursday
morning.
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