Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-119)
MR VERNON
COAKER MP, DEPUTY
CHIEF CONSTABLE
GRAHAME MAXWELL,
MR DAVID
BOLT AND
MR DAVID
WILSON
26 JUNE 2006
Q100 Chairman: In those circumstances
it may well be that the punter knows they are having sex with
somebody who is below the age of consent.
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
Part of the awareness campaign is to raise awareness through men's
magazines. I was the one who wrote the letters. It is a bit peculiar
writing letters to men's magazines—but we have tried to
highlight some of the campaigns that other organisations have
used. We have used MTV EXIT, and they have used a great deal of
videos and DVDs; and there is access to their intranet site. We
have used the International Organisation for Immigration and tried
to use some of their messages: "You pay for a night; she
pays with her life." It is about trying to get that message
across. In media interviews that myself or members of my team
have held, we have been putting forward what we think a trafficked
person looks like. It is very clear to us from some of the information
we have that the person who uses a trafficked woman should be
able to ascertain that they are trafficked.
Mr Coaker: There have been 30
convictions for trafficking for sexual exploitation under the
Sexual Offences Act.
Q101 Dr Harris: The two messages
you could give to men is rape, as you said—and I do not
dispute what you said—or, as in other parts of the world,
particularly Italy, they find that many of the women who are reported,
who are rescued, are rescued by the punters themselves providing
that information, for whatever motive—they feel sorry, they
are in love or whatever. That is a mixed message: "We will
clobber you for rape, or please come forward and report your concerns."
They have a hotline. Do you have any idea what the message should
be to men, and do you think you are spending enough resource on
advertising? Do you have any research as to the attitudes of men?
Mr Coaker: There are two things.
If a man believes a woman to be trafficked, then he should not
have sex with her, and then report the massage parlour or brothel
to the authorities. If he then chooses to have sex, believing
her to be trafficked, presumably there is the possibility of him
being charged with rape.
Q102 Dr Harris: Forgive me, but a
lot of men go regularly to the same prostitute—that is what
men do. They may discover what is going on, after having had sex
on one or more occasions—because this is what happens, and
as we are told by the NGOs in Italy; they then realise what is
going on when they get the trust of the woman a bit more. There
is still this dilemma, which you have confirmed for me: if you
then go and try and report it you are at risk of prosecution,
for the reasons you have given; whereas you surely want them to
report that so that you can start breaking the cycle of trafficking
and exploitation. How do you solve that?
Mr Coaker: I think you solve that—people
come forward—and this is my view and I am not a lawyer—with
evidence about what is happening. The whole idea of honest belief,
as I understand it, is that if people come forward and say, "I
believe this woman to be trafficked; it is not something I realised",
that person would not be prosecuted for rape. If, on the other
hand, somebody uses a woman and knows her to be trafficked and
does not care and just carries on, then I think the full force
of the law ought to be used against that person. That would operate
as a deterrent. In terms of impacts on people's behaviour, the
Deputy Chief Constable will tell you that there is evidence on
the punters' websites of the fact that when this message gets
out, that there are trafficked women out there being used, it
has influenced some people's behaviour.
Q103 Dr Harris: Or claimed behaviour!
Mr Coaker: Yes, fair comment.
Having said that, it is something that you can point to that was
not there before. People are trying to get out the deterrence
message and then things that appear on the punters' website changes.
It could be that, but there is evidence there, I would suggest,
of some increased awareness.
Q104 Lord Judd: My question follows
on from the Chairman's question. In your submission, you suggest
that the current legislative framework meets the UK's obligations
to criminalise and punish trafficking in accordance with international
standards, the UN Trafficking Protocol and the European Union
framework decision being examples. While you may well be right
that the current legislative framework has improved from the criminal
justice perspective, it is still argued by many, including NGOs,
that it lacks a human-rights approach, especially in relation
to protection of victims. Do you accept this point, and, if so,
how do you intend to respond?
Mr Coaker: My response would be
that we try to have a twin-track approach to this whole area.
As I was explaining before, we believe that a tough enforcement
approach is necessary, but we also believe in trying to support
the victim and meet their needs. For us it is not an either/or
situation. That is the approach that most people would want. As
you mentioned, we have tried to toughen the law up. You know these
as well as I do: the Sexual Offences Act increases the penalty
for trafficking to 14 years; in the Immigration and Asylum Act
2004 we put in an additional offence of trafficking for labour
exploitation. We want to see prosecutions with respect to that.
We know that victims have rights and that it is important that
they are taken account of. We have a victims' code of practice
now, which came in in April 2006, which was about the way the
criminal justice system should treat victims. We have the Children's
Act, which lays out a legislative and statutory framework for
the treatment of children who may be in need—and that requires
the local authorities to deal with that. We have a review going
on in relation to arrangements for unaccompanied minors that were
undertaken with respect to DfES about how we can establish safer
arrangements for children and young people within local areas.
We do not see it as an either/or situation. We are trying to pursue
a rigorous approach to law enforcement, and we are trying to ensure
that we protect the human rights of the victim.
Q105 Lord Judd: You have spent time
telling us—and I was very impressed by the force with which
you put forward your own commitment—how you are stepping
up the information available to those thinking of buying sex about
the possible implications in this context. What are you doing
about spreading information amongst people coming to this country
about their rights, should they find themselves being pushed in
this direction, for example women who are pushed into prostitution?
Mr Wilson: There is specific training
now on the regional officers' training course that relates to
trafficking. We are making them more aware of that. All induction
courses for these officers now include that.
Q106 Lord Judd: Do you have literature
available at the points of immigration, for example?
Mr Bolt: Part of the Reflex work
over the last few years has been to try to identify the nexus
points within the EU and beyond where traffickers particularly
attract their victims. We have been trying, through Reflex, to
make sure that at those nexus points there is sufficient literature
and messages going out to the communities to ensure that people
recognise the risks. That has been a significant part of the Reflex
campaign.
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
We have done a number of campaigns aimed specifically at people
in source countries. MTV EXIT did a lot of work with known stars
like Angelina Jolie, who has been very active, and also Robbie
Williams. Pentameter, in terms of policing, and Reflex, have worked
closely with MTV and taken a lot of their literature. It is important
to raise awareness within the police service and the immigration
service, and we have been doing a lot of work on that. People
need to realise that people will come into the UK. During the
Pentameter campaign we gave out a number of leaflets at ports
of entry in the UK, and nexus points like Victoria Coach Station
and some of the entries into ports like Dover and Hull. We have
tried to do campaigns with people who work in the airline industry
and on boats to say, "this is what a trafficked person might
look like". Part of the ongoing campaign of Pentameter is
to raise awareness amongst most countries and areas where we think
trafficked people might be—so we will be considering putting
a notice in places like service areas on motorway stations. Toilets
are the places where victims are separated from the traffickers,
and it is trying to raise awareness at that point.
Q107 Lord Judd: I am impressed that
you and the immigration authorities are doing this, and that is
good; but as I understand it, what can happen is that somebody
thinks they are coming to the UK for a particular purpose that
is not prostitution, but when they get here they find themselves
being pushed into it. Would it not therefore be appropriate also
to back up this excellent work that you are beginning to do with
information directly available to people coming into the country
themselves, at the point of entry, about the dangers of what can
happen and informing them of what their rights are and what actions
they should take in that situation?
Mr Wilson: We also have an airline
liaison officer network at 30 selected locations. Their job is
to advise the airlines about people and their admissibility to
the UK. They are now trained to recognise potential trafficked
victims. They are also providing a training programme for 20 airlines,
which, again, will try to alert airline staff to the nature of
trafficking and the type of trafficking, to try to prevent that
at source.
Q108 Lord Judd: But do you have material
that the airline staff or the immigration staff can give to a
person they suspect may be in this predicament so that that person
has got a point of reference in their hand?
Mr Wilson: Not as far as I am
aware.
Q109 Lord Judd: It is also claimed,
not least by a number of NGOs, that the current legislative framework
is not sufficiently rigorous in punishing those who employ migrants
illegally. In this context you refer to the civil penalty regime
for employers of illegal migrants under the recent Immigration,
Asylum and Nationality Act, and the offence of knowingly employing
an illegal migrant worker. As you probably remember, when we looked
at this bill earlier this session, we raised human rights concerns
about the civil penalty regime in particular. Can you explain
how the provisions that you emphasise will be affected in addressing
the trafficking problem, as opposed to the wider problem of illegal
economic immigration?
Mr Coaker: As I say, we think
the measures contained in the new Act of 2006 will help. The new
civil penalty regime will enable us to distinguish clearly between
the good employer and the bad employer, and with a civil penalty
we can take action against those employers with employment practices
where they are not properly checking documents and where people
have come from. We think that that is a positive step forward.
We know that we need to make employers know—which is why
we see it as a knowing offence—that alongside the civil
penalty, if they deliberately employ people they know to be illegal
immigrants, then they will face the prospect of imprisonment.
Again, it is about trying to ensure that people who exploit others
are faced with the full rigour of the law. It is not a penalty
that has been available, so we think it is a useful addition to
the arm that we have got to tackle those people who seek to employ
illegal workers. We talked about communication and the need to
inform people; if we all get out there the message to employers
that there is a possibility that they can be imprisoned if they
knowingly employ somebody illegally, that would help.
Q110 Lord Judd: Do you have any practical
suggestions that you would like us to take account of as to how
things might be toughened up to support you in what you are doing?
Mr Coaker: We think that the legislative
framework will mean that slipshod employers will amend their behaviour;
and those that seek to employ people illegally, knowingly, will
face the consequences. In all honestly, when people feel the law
is being enforced and that it is a consequence for an action,
they think twice about doing something that is illegal. The evidence
will come forward when the Act is enforced.
Q111 Lord Judd: Listening to your
answers to the Chairman, which, as I say, I found very encouraging,
and the answers you have just given, it seems to me that there
is a tremendous job to be tackled here in terms of the values
of our society because if people understand why things are wrong—not
just because they are told they are wrong—they will be more
co operative in enforcing the law.
Mr Coaker: I think that that is
an excellent point to make, and it is something we see as part
of the work we are trying to do in this area. We feel that we
have made a start and that we are developing policies and practices
that will provide a real benefit, whether it is in sexual exploitation,
child trafficking or labour exploitation. We know, however, that
there is more to do, and that is why there is a series of projects
and programmes taking place. That is as well as trying to change
attitudes and the way people view the use of trafficked people
or illegal workers or whatever. We will also back that up with
a tough regime and tough enforcement of the law. It is not one
approach or the other; it is both.
Q112 Lord Campbell of Alloway: I
would like to come back to the business of changing attitudes,
the tough employment of the law, and your advertising campaign.
Apart from that, the point of entry, which I talked with some
witnesses some time ago about—I have been listening very
carefully and I am somewhat confused as to the answers. You, sir,
gave no effective answer to Lord Judd; you, sir, did give an answer,
which I would like you to elaborate. As I understood you, you
have given new express instructions to the people at the ports
of entry—and let us face it they do not always come through
the ports of entry and you cannot help that. What exactly are
those orders? What are they supposed to do? You say they have
information; is that written and, if so, is it in various languages
for these people? Would you explain what happens?
Mr Bolt: Mr Wilson is probably
better able to comment on the ports of entry, but if I can just
start—
Q113 Lord Campbell of Alloway: The
pair of you.
Mr Bolt: I was referring to what
we have been doing in what you might describe as upstream in source
countries and transit countries where particular cities, often
in the accession countries, the more recent members of the EU,
have become focal points, nexus points for people seeking to move
into Europe and the UK, and where smugglers and traffickers have
set up business in effect. To pick up the earlier line of questioning,
they have been advertising for mostly young women to come to the
UK to work as au pairs or to work in various forms of legitimate
employment in local newspapers and bars and various other locations
in these nexus points. We have therefore been working in Reflex
with the local authorities, particularly the law-enforcement authorities
because those are our natural counterparts. Those of us working
in law enforcement in the UK on these issues ensure that as far
as we possibly can we can get messages to people in those locations
through newspapers, through bars and other sorts of locations
where these recruiters operate, and to indicate the risks involved
in answering these sorts of advertisements or encouragements to
come to the UK. That is what we have been doing in source countries
and transit countries.
Mr Wilson: Since 2005, all immigration
officers have received awareness training on this subject in the
identification of victims as part of their induction training.
Guidance documents are available to them setting out who to contact
and what services are available. Trafficking profiles are in use
in all of our intelligence units up and down the country, and
the Home Office has an online tool that is now available to immigration
staff or to assist them in the process. In terms of the victim,
they are always spoken to in their own language. Whatever the
language, they will always be interviewed in that language. Social
worker teams are in place at five ports and also screening units,
basically to help with the way the person is handled, particularly
the needs of unaccompanied children. We have set up minors teams,
which are specially-trained teams of immigration officers in interviewing
techniques of smaller children, unaccompanied children. Their
training is very specialised and it tries to get them to recognise
the triggers in the process. It will help them not just to identify
the victims but also the perpetrators. By September this year,
600 staff will have received that specialised training so that
there is a 24-hour, seven-day a week system in place by which
they refer to local authorities for assistance in placing the
child.
Q114 Lord Campbell of Alloway: Do
they hand them a document in their own language which says, "you
have given your address as such and such a place and we shall
keep an eye on you"—and if for any reason, if you take
the girl that was taking a job as a waitress and finds herself
in a brothel, is there anything in their own language that is
handed to them which enables them to make contact with some appropriate
person? Is there anything that is handed to them that they can
understand, with a telephone number or anything that they can
then contact if they are in trouble? That is what I am asking.
Mr Wilson: At the port of entry,
if a person is identified as a victim, then that person will be
helped and catered for there and will be given all the assistance
there. However, many of the people that Pentameter has uncovered
are not identified as victims at the port of entry.
Q115 Lord Campbell of Alloway: I
put it to you another way. You do not know for certain, if you
see a young girl coming into customs, whether she is a victim
or not. One can have a pretty shrewd guess at times, and wonder
why this is going on. If you suspect this—and I believe
this is the real question, because an officer is trained really
not to act on suspicion—so I am going right beyond what
a police officer usually does—if he suspects that there
is something funny going on, is there a document that can be given
in the girl's own language with all the information—and
I will not repeat it—and it would be much better made up
as I have suggested—but is there any document that can be
handed to her?
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
With Pentameter we put a leaflet together like you suggested,
and that had gone out to ports of entry. I think it was written
in 19 different languages, so not all languages were covered.
We tried to raise awareness through that. There was a limited
supply of those leaflets.
Q116 Lord Campbell of Alloway: Is
it available in all those languages? Is it actually handed if
the officer suspects?
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
With Pentameter we tried a blanket approach, where everybody was
given a leaflet. There were only a limited number of leaflets
we could give. Whether or not that was productive is something
we need to review, as Pentameter has now come to an end and we
are now entering the review stage.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: Would you be
prepared to consider the suggestion that—
Q117 Chairman: Can I say that we
saw some very interesting examples on our visit to Italy of things
that were given to women not at the point of entry but later,
out in the street, in their own language, and also stickers that
had been put out in places stuck up on—wherever they may
be.
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
The UK HTC is the new body that is being brought in since Pentameter
has come to an end, is about to be established, and one of the
things it will be looking at is how we market this issue and have
a continuing campaign on marketing. If there is anything you think
would be beneficial to us, please put it forward to us; I would
appreciate that.
Mr Coaker: I think that is a suggestion
we need to look at. The only point I would add—and I am
not quite sure about the legal position—we have tried to
put in specially trained teams of social workers in 22 major ports
and we have tried to train immigration officers in many other
ports to identify children in particular who are coming through,
who may be victims of trafficking. We are making efforts to do
that, but there is always more that you could do. One of the points
of having these debates and discussions is to learn from each
other about improving the system. We have those teams that will
take that forward.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: On that, I
think the Chairman misunderstood me. I was not suggesting that
the port of entry was the only source of the trouble, of course;
but I do suggest—and I think you have taken it on board,
sir, that that is a serious issue. I wanted to ask you one—
Chairman: Alan, we are running short
of time and we have a lot of ground to cover, so I am going to
bring Mary in.
Q118 Mary Creagh: Mr Bolt, your evidence
for 2004-05 talks about 343 Reflex operations leading to 149 disruptions,
1,456 arrests and seizure of over £5 million. Presumably
that refers to all immigration crime.
Mr Bolt: Yes, it does.
Q119 Mary Creagh: Are you able to
give comparable figures for trafficking crime through that period?
Mr Bolt: The things have not been
collated in that way. The common feature of Reflex operations
is that they are focused on organised criminality. In many instances
you are dealing with people who, at the point at which we are
tackling them, are not either obviously traffickers or people
smugglers, or indeed specifically engaged in organised immigration
crime alone; they are involved with other activities as well,
for example manufacture and distribution of false documentation.
The figures cover everything. I would be concerned if I tried
to identify only those that are specifically trafficked; that
would give a false impression of the overall scale of the trafficking
elements of those numbers.
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