Examination of Witnesses (Questions 120-139)
MR VERNON
COAKER MP, DEPUTY
CHIEF CONSTABLE
GRAHAME MAXWELL,
MR DAVID
BOLT AND
MR DAVID
WILSON
26 JUNE 2006
Q120 Mary Creagh: Do you have any
update on figures that you provided the Committee with on successful
prosecutions?
Mr Bolt: There have been 30 convictions,
which come from 16 cases in all. Within those cases the sentencing
has varied quite significantly between four years and 23 years.
The upper end of the scale reflected the fact that in a number
of instances the individual was facing multiple counts, and so
that obviously takes them beyond the tariff specifically for that
offence. In the most recent case, which was at the end of April,
we saw two individuals charged, one of whom, a male in this particular
instance, was Albanian and received a seven-year sentence; and
a female associate received a four-year sentence. I think we are
seeing deterrent level sentences now being handed out.
Q121 Mary Creagh: When we visited
Italy there was clear evidence as to trafficking of, usually women,
for sexual exploitation and the trafficking of arms and drugs,
and as to the way that different organised criminal networks were
engaging in some cases with the Mafia to bring in one set of things
and to take out another set of things—commodities, if you
like. Are you seeing any evidence of that?
Mr Bolt: It is a very good point
and goes to my first answer. Increasingly we are seeing within
organised criminality people specialising in particular aspects
of the logistics of organised crime. You have people who smuggle
things, and now people, across borders; and people who provide
support to that through false documentation or fraudulently obtained
documentation. There is a blur of the various forms of organised
crime towards those people who can effectively support any form
of organised criminality that is going to make them money. That
is why, when I answered the first question, I said that I thought
it would be unhelpful to focus exclusively on those involved only
in trafficking because many of them are involved in a whole range
of threats to the UK in terms of organised crime threats, with
their own particular specialism within those activities.
Q122 Mary Creagh: Can you provide
us with the figures for the number of Reflex-led operations this
year across the country under Pentameter, and the number of arrests
and charges brought and the number of trafficked people rescued?
Mr Bolt: I can, but we have agreed
with Grahame Maxwell that he will answer that because he has had
a more detailed involvement.
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
The Committee is aware that Pentameter was a Reflex-funded operation,
so everything that is connected with Pentameter was through Reflex.
All in all, we mounted about 515 operations, and from those we
have arrested 232 people. That figure may increase as the inquiry
starts to blossom. Currently we have, from that, 134 charges.
Those charges range from serious trafficking offences through
to rape, and then perhaps managing brothels and being involved
in prostitution and conspiracy offences. All in all, we have rescued
84 victims, of which 12 have been classed as minors.
Q123 Mary Creagh: We visited Italy
last week, as we mentioned, and were told by the Ministry in their
Home Office that in 2004 over 3,260 people had been reported to
the authorities for involvement in trafficking and 412 had been
arrested; and in 2005, 2,943 were reported and 356 were arrested.
Given that the countries are roughly the same population, and
Italy is in a similar position to us in many ways, what do you
think those figures say about the relative approaches to trafficking?
They have a very much softer approach, which is about victim-led
enforcement rather than the harder contact which you have in raids
and enforcement, et cetera? What do you think about the
pros and cons of both of those approaches?
Mr Coaker: I will start, and I
think David and Grahame may come in. We always need to look at
what other countries are doing. Certainly SOCA and the police
are always talking to other countries about their policies and
the projects they have, what they have found to be effective and
what they find works. No doubt we will talk to not only Italy
but lots of other countries as well about what they found to be
successful in dealing with what we all agree is something that
is abhorrent and which we want to do as much about as we can.
I just go back to the point that we are trying to develop policies
with respect to not just rigorous enforcement of the law, although
we think that is important, but trying to develop a victim-sensitive
approach. We recognise that it has got to be that, as well as
the tough enforcement message, so we are trying to develop it.
We have the Poppy Project in London, which is reaching out. We
are looking at developing services across the country. We have
a whole range of different activities going on, where we know
we need to support victims. We know we need to deal with the issues
that they raise, and that is what we are trying to do. It is not
a victim-led approach or a tough-enforcement approach; it is an
approach that attempts to put both of those things together, because
we think that that is the most effective way of doing it.
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
We would welcome having a look at the Italian system to see what
we, as enforcement agencies, can learn. Pentameter was very much
a turn-the-stone approach, to find out what the extent of the
problem was; whether we had invested sufficient policing resources
in that; and whether, within my ACPO portfolio responsibilities,
I could raise the issue of human trafficking amongst my chief
constable colleagues. That is the first step. I think we have
achieved that. I think we have identified the tip of the iceberg,
and that is why I say the UK HTC will take this issue forward.
Q124 Mary Creagh: Can you give us
a brief update on Operation Paladin Child, because that happened
recently, and one of the things that we have found so difficult
to get hold of is information about child trafficking?
Mr Bolt: Our understanding of
the position of Italy is that it is a significant entry point
into the EU for trafficking routes. I certainly agree we should
learn from the Italians in terms of methodology if there are useful
things we can adopt and add to the range of things that we already
do, but it is in a different position. It is geographically different
in terms of it being the first point of entry to the EU for those
across from Albania and through into Italy that way. It is rather
different in that sense. There were a number of lessons learned
from Paladin Child when it was undertaken—it must be three
years ago—which were essentially about the co-ordination
of a number of the agencies involved at the port of entry to ensure
that the law-enforcement functions, the immigration functions
and also social services functions were being brought together,
and that people fully understood and recognised the nature of
the threat. The exercise itself did not reveal a significant size
of problem. We were concerned about the size of the problem of
child trafficking, and that exercise attempted to identify whether
or not we could get some evidence of the size of the problem.
I do not think it really did that, but it did identify various
issues about the way in which we should approach this and the
systems and ways in which we operate at the ports that have been
introduced. There has subsequently been a spin-off of that particular
exercise, which ran from the back end of last year through to
the end of January this year, which specifically looked at the
possibility of trafficking of children from Jamaica into the UK
at Heathrow, Manchester and Gatwick. Again, that did not reveal
any significant size of problem. I do not think we necessarily
take any great comfort from that, and, as you heard from earlier
answers, there is still much more work to be done to understand
the scale of the problem. What has happened as a result of those
exercises is that we are better placed to do that now, in the
form of greater co-ordination at the ports with various agencies.
Q125 Mary Creagh: Is not one of the
problems with child victims of trafficking that many of them are
completely unaware of the fact that they are victims of trafficking
when they enter, but many of them enter the UK legally with passports
and legitimate visas given out in their country of origin, which
are then confiscated from them and they are put forward by their
so-called uncle or aunts but have no relationship to them? That
is a comment perhaps on the success or failure of Operation Paladin
Child. The Committee is aware that the UK has instituted in some
of its embassies particularly in countries that have a severe
problem with trafficking, fingerprinting all applicants for visas.
Perhaps Mr Wilson can answer. Do you see a reduction in visa applications
in countries where the new fingerprinting scheme has come in?
Also what processes are in place when applications are made for
entry visas for children in those countries? How are the responsible
adults who are putting forward these children as their relatives
or part of their extended families identified? How is the relationship
between the responsible adult and the child monitored and established?
Mr Wilson: This is an issue of
some concern now, simply because of the problems we faced in this
country with the arrival of unaccompanied children now claiming
asylum. As a result of that, there has been an increased awareness.
Officers have been made increasingly aware of the nature of the
problem. No child is granted a visa without confirmation of the
parentage or responsible guardian, and the same would apply here.
We have now set up at Heathrow a joint Metropolitan Police and
Immigration Service team that looks specifically at unaccompanied
children and identifies needs and sponsors here to ensure that
the children are properly protected.
Mr Coaker: As I understand it,
the rules changed in February this year to try and tackle exactly
the sorts of problems you are referring to, Mary, to ensure that
there is a proper record, particularly for unaccompanied children,
identifying who is actually responsible for them. The details
now have to appear on the visa so that they can be checked, and
there is a proper record check of who is coming into the country,
and indeed, if they are accompanied their relationship with the
child, so that there is a much tighter record now, using the visa
in respect of children coming into the country. There is also
work I know of the IND going on about working with carriers, the
airlines and others, trying to get their co-operation and help
where we have got this biggest problem so that they can help in
identifying children at risk. That is not happening yet, but it
is ongoing work, which we are attempting to introduce in due course.
Q126 Mary Creagh: Can we move on
to victims giving evidence and bringing people to justice. Can
you give examples of how victims in the UK participate in the
investigation, prosecution and punishment of traffickers and what
measures are in place? You mentioned the Poppy Project, but that
seems to be the only one. Are women's refuges involved, or local
authorities?
Mr Bolt: Of course, all victims
are different. The extent to which a traumatised victim is able
and willing to assist with any subsequent enforcement activity
varies considerably. Some of them are simply not able to. Clearly,
we do as best we can by providing the appropriate support to encourage
victims to be prepared to give evidence if possible so that we
can bring people to justice. Somewhere between those that are
simply too traumatised to co-operate and simply wish to be returned
to their home and those that are prepared to give evidence, there
are some who are prepared to give interviews on the basis that
the information provided in the interview can be used for intelligence
purposes but not necessarily taken to the next stage; and so we
try for that as well. Obviously, where victims are prepared to
give evidence, we need to give appropriate levels of support.
That involves supporting them in terms of emotional support but
also practical support in terms of payment for travel back to
the UK if they have returned home in the meantime, or providing
them with support if they remain in the UK pending giving evidence.
I am not a particular expert on Poppy.
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
I could think of a number of examples where we have rescued people
who have given evidence. Certainly the two I am familiar with
in south Yorkshire were by two different trafficking gangs, and
two different victims, both 15 years old. Their evidence helped
us secure 86 years of total convictions against six traffickers.
Their story is one that happens probably many times in the UK.
They were deceived into coming to the UK. They think they are
going to have a legitimate job; passports are taken at the point
of entry by the trafficker; they are raped and forced to become
prostitutes, sometimes in more than one city in the UK. They were
very brave to come forward and gave evidence to allow us to secure
the convictions. They were both resident in Lithuania at the time
when the trial was going ahead and came back and gave evidence
and then went back to their families. There are other further
examples we could give if you require.
Q127 Mary Creagh: A number of NGOs
have told us that certainly enforcement practices in relation
to trafficking neglect to identify the human rights of the victims,
and that there is a great push to identify people who may be here
illegally and to exploit their return to their country of origin.
We have had one anecdote where a woman who had been trafficked,
but not correctly identified as a trafficking victim in this country,
was sent back to her country of origin. Of course, the police
contacted the police in her own country who were corrupt, and
they got on to her trafficker, who then was there to meet her
at the airport, and got the debt bond tracked to her by forcing
her into prostitution in her own country. Those sorts of examples
surely show that our system is simply not working in certain cases?
How certain are you in some of the cases you are looking at, for
instance the Cuddles Massage Parlour, which is often cited by
people saying that they were here as prostitutes but maybe not
correctly identified as victims of trafficking? What are the challenges
in terms of balancing the human-rights approach and the law-enforcement
approach?
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
It is difficult at times to identify a trafficked victim. I am
trying to raise awareness now with a number of officers at that
first point of contact, so that they do think differently about
how we treat a person who may be potentially trafficked. Quite
clearly, we will have had trafficked people who have been brought
into the UK who do not want to admit that they have been trafficked
and will not give us the evidence or even the information to that
effect. That might be one of the examples that we have been given.
During Pentameter, we were very clear about what our figures looked
like. At times we thought we had over 100 trafficked people but
when we looked further into it, as the police looked further into
it, as police officers we have not been convinced that that person
has been trafficked, and we have been using the Palermo protocol
as the basis for making those decisions. Many people have given
us information that has assisted us, and we are more than happy
that 84 of those people are trafficked. In any system you will
find trafficked people who do not want to admit to it, and sometimes
that is about how they re-integrate into the society they want
to go back to.
Mr Coaker: I think it would be
helpful, to show that this sort of thing is quite complicated
often—excuse me reading this, but of the 19 women arrested
by police on the operation of the raid on Cuddles, nine were from
the European Union and therefore not subject to immigration control;
of the remaining ten, four had been granted leave to remain in
the United Kingdom, or had outstanding claims, and six in that
sense were identified as immigration offenders.
Q128 Dr Harris: Immigration offenders?
Mr Coaker: Yes, offenders—I
beg your pardon. Six were identified as immigration offenders.
The Poppy Project later became involved with two of them, and
four are now subject to discussions with the Immigration Service
about their entitlement here. What was important about that, and
the lessons that have been learned—and that is the importance
of the work the Deputy Chief Constable has done—is that
that was a police raid without reference, as I understand it,
to the Immigration Service and other people. Now, hopefully with
the work that Pentameter has done, with the work the UK Human
Trafficking Centre will do, with the greater awareness across
police forces and social services across the country, in a whole
range of areas—that sort of project where it is just a police
raid without reference to the Immigration Service and without
reference to the potential of what you might find there, would
not happen again. I think that people learn from things, and I
think the law-enforcement agencies and others have learned from
that and adapted their procedures in the light of what happened
then. On the issue of re-trafficking, we need to increase our
knowledge and look at what happened. It was one of the issues
raised in the responses to the consultation on the UK Action Plan.
I would just like to put on record that we are very pleased with
the responses that we had to that, and we are very grateful to
the NGOs and everyone who responded to that. One of the issues
that was raised in there was the whole issue of making sure that
we do not send somebody back to be re-trafficked. The defence
that I would say is that we do not knowingly send people back
if they are going to be re-trafficked. That is not what the Immigration
Service sets out to do and it is not want people want. There are
immigration rules and controls, but certainly the human rights
of an individual and their entitlement to dignity and respect
would be part of the decision that would be made about them, and
we would not want to send them back into a situation where they
could be re-trafficked. That will be something, again, that we
reflect on as a result of consultations we have had from the UK
Action plan.
Q129 Mary Creagh: You talked about
Reflex's work with international law-enforcement partners in source
and transit countries. Can you give us recent examples of this?
Have you signed memoranda of understanding with any other police
forces? What work are you doing with the police forces themselves
in those countries where often they can be corrupt and be part
of the problem?
Mr Bolt: From the outset, Reflex
recognised the need to work particularly with the law-enforcement
agencies within the Balkans. Effectively there were two strands.
The first strand was around training, education and capability-building,
so we have been trying to work with them in order to build up
their own capabilities to deal with these issues, recognising
the priorities that should attach to them and having the capability
to do that sort of work themselves. The second strand was to engage
with them operationally in relation to specific bits of activity
and to encourage the exchange of information and operational business.
Now that SOCA has been created, since 1 April, SOCA has inherited
the liaison officers that have been posted to these countries
under the Reflex banner over the last few years, and those liaison
officers continue to work in situ with the relevant agencies to
encourage the flows of information and to encourage operational
exchanges. Meanwhile, we continue to support training, and there
are officers who are funded in a number of those countries as
part of the Reflex programme. We have also funded, particularly
in one instance, heartbeat detection equipment in Turkey to try
to encourage that sort of detection work at ports of entry. It
is a broad range of work with a twin focus on capability-building
and self-sufficiency, but also on operational exchanges. It has
focused particularly on the Balkans, for obvious reasons, over
the last few years, but now SOCA has taken on not just the European
liaison officer network that NCIS previously ran including the
immigration liaison officers but also the wider network that previously
was managed by Her Majesty's Customs Revenue and Customs. We now
have officers within SOCA who are posted overseas in some source
countries and they too can begin to focus more on immigration
crime issues, having been previously largely focused particularly
on drugs issues. So there is a range of business ongoing.
Q130 Dr Harris: You gave this very
interesting figure of 4,000 potentially trafficked women compared
to a previous estimate of 142 to 1,420, which is a hugely significant
increase. Can you not just publish what—you said there was
an interdepartmental something or other. If you can produce a
figure, you are duty-bound, surely, if you are doing research
with taxpayers' money, to publish the thing, particularly when
you promised it in early 2006—and you have five days left
for the first half? Can you send it to us or something?
Mr Coaker: I said there were discussions
going on in Government about finalising the report, completing
the report and publishing it, but we thought it helpful to the
deliberations of the Committee to put that figure of 4,000 out
into the public domain. We are not trying to hide anything.
Q131 Dr Harris: We cannot question
it if you do not publish it. If you do not publish the research
it is tantalising and interesting, and it is good for you because
you can say you have put something out, but I just want to try
to indicate the difficulty we have when we are looking for data.
The Italians gave us data—it was a bit all over the place,
but there was certainly data.
Mr Coaker: We try to be as helpful
as we can. We have put figures into the public domain and published
research. We have included a whole range of different things.
As I say, that is why we put the 4,000 figure into the public
domain. It will be published in due course, when it is completed
and when it is agreed.
Q132 Dr Harris: Mary asked you, and
I know you answered this—although it was a detailed question—about
whether you used women's refuges as well as Poppy, because Poppy
only has 25 places and I suspect it is quite full. Is it a big
deterrent to raid if you know there is nowhere specialised to
do it? What do you do?
Mr Coaker: We work with a whole
range of organisations to provide accommodation and to work with
different people to ensure as far as we possibly can that people
have accommodation and that their needs are met.
Deputy Chief Constable Maxwell:
One of the issues around Pentameter was that we asked for an assessment
to be done by each force of what the social services provision
was or specialist provision in their area, and if they did rescue
a person where they would intend to put that person. There were
a different range of agencies, some governmental, some non-governmental,
and some social services. Some involved charitable organisations
such as CHASTE, churches alert to sex trafficking across Europe
and the Salvation Army. There are different refuges in different
parts of the country.
Q133 Dr Harris: Who pays, because
it costs money to open a place and keep somebody there. Did you
have a budget?
Mr Coaker: Some will be social
services money; some will be the voluntary organisations that
want to deliver a service for people who they regard as in need.
As I say, this is part of the developing area of our work.
Q134 Dr Harris: On re-trafficking
you said you do not deliberately send someone to a place where
you thought they might be re-trafficked, which has echoes of rendition-type
explanations; but what follow-up do you do so that you can be
aware that the people you have sent back are not re-trafficked,
so that you can learn?
Mr Coaker: There is work done
with various non-government organisations and various other groups
trying to ensure that that does not happen. The aim of the Immigration
Service is not to send somebody back into a dangerous situation
or a situation where they are going to be re-trafficked. We do
not set out with that intention. That is the point I am making,
Evan. We try, through—
Q135 Dr Harris: I accept that, but
I am asking how you know whether you are doing the right thing.
Mr Coaker: Through liaison.
Q136 Dr Harris: In good faith?
Mr Coaker: Yes, through liaison
with governments, through the work we try to do with non-government
organisations in those countries, and with other groups. We try
to establish a re-integration programme. As I say, in many respects
there are intergovernmental discussions going on. One example
of that is with Vietnam, about what happens with respect—many
of the children want to go back, and we facilitate that, if we
can.
Q137 Dr Harris: Do you have any data?
The Italians were able to say, "Of the people who we repatriated—because
we did it through the IOM we know what the failure rate was in
terms of lots of follow-up", which is their main end point.
Do you have similar data?
Mr Coaker: Again, it is an area
of work that we want to develop. We want to try to improve the
knowledge base that we have for this area of work right across
the range. We are seeking to do that.
Q138 Dr Harris: I think you are saying,
no you do not, but you are hoping to have. Is that a fair summary?
Mr Coaker: We want to improve
our knowledge base.
Q139 Dr Harris: Do you have plans
to sign the European Convention against Trafficking in the near
future, because, as you know, lots of people are urging you to
do it? I think it is a ministerial decision.
Mr Coaker: We have not made a
decision about whether to sign the Council of Europe Convention
at this time. We have got the consultations in from the Action
Plan, and we are looking at the consultations there. Lots of people
have said to us in their responses that we should sign the Council
of Europe Convention. There are issues that we want to get clear
with respect to what the consequences of residency permits would
be, of an automatic right of stay. We want to examine all of that,
and when we have done we will make a decision.
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