Examination of Witnesses (Questions 120
- 123)
TUESDAY 9 JUNE 2009
MR OWEN
TUDOR, MS
JANET WILLIAMSON,
PROFESSOR KEITH
EWING AND
MR JOHN
HENDY QC
Q120 Chairman: Owen, do you want
to add anything, or Janet?
Ms Williamson: Just a couple of
quick points. Building on the comments that Keith was making about
the Commission and the need for there to be obligations on business
specifically in relation to human rights, we support the Ruggie
framework which does set out distinct roles for states and for
business and then looks at the issue of redress. In terms of the
obligation of business, he talks about policies and impact assessments
integration and tracking performance as all being necessary in
order for business to carry out what he calls due diligence, in
other words taking proactive steps to ensure that they are not
abrogating human rights. Clearly it could be built into the mandate
of a Commission to ensure that there were some clear obligations
that they were monitoring and upholding. Secondly, to very much
support and build on the points made about collective bargaining.
If the UK Government wants to really prevent human rights and
labour rights abuses overseas, one of the best things it could
do would be to promote collective bargaining among UK companies
that are operating overseas and ensure that they are promoting
collective bargaining in their supply chains. It is the best way
of raising labour standards and really the only reliable form
of verification.
Q121 Chairman: So the supply chains
are the key, going all the way to the Far East or wherever it
happens to be, in terms of raising labour standards through collective
bargaining?
Ms Williamson: I think collective
bargaining is the starting point for raising labour standards.
Companies spend thousands of pounds on audits and so on to try
to monitor labour standards with the best of intentions but really
the only reliable verification is through collective bargaining
and allowing workers to organise themselves and to speak with
their own voices about what is happening and their own experiences,
there is really no substitute for that.
Q122 Chairman: We come to the point
that Owen was debating earlier on about difficulties in some of
the rather more oppressive countries around the world where it
is very difficult to organise.
Mr Tudor: Yes but it is possible,
as I indicated, to find solutions on that. John mentioned the
right to strike in South Africa. One of the most effective uses
of that power was when South African dock workers refused recently
to unload Chinese arms aimed for the Zimbabwe regime, an action
which I should say—and maybe I am using the term perhaps
in a slightly old-fashioned way—both main parties in Britain
indicated was absolutely supportable and exactly the right thing
to do but which would of course have been illegal under the laws
of the United Kingdom, so in terms of the discussion of why governments
of either party have not moved on this issue, I think that throws
into sharp relief some of the inconsistencies involved.
Q123 Chairman: Illegal contemplation
of furtherance of a trade dispute.
Professor Ewing: Can I make one
footnote to finish. Britain is now the only country of the original
15 Member States where less than half the workforce is covered
by collective agreements. It is now down to 33 per cent and falling.
This is an urgent problem at a time when the right to bargain
collectively is now recognised by the European Court of Human
rights as a fundamental human right.
Chairman: Thank you all very much. The
Committee stands adjourned.
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