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Lord Henley: My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very good point, but it is not necessarily a good point to make at Third Reading. It is the kind of point that I should like to hear from the noble Lord when we reach the consultation process. No doubt the noble Lord will feed in his ideas as to exactly what we have to do. I am glad that he has flagged them at this stage. I am arguing that it is important that the code is used as the vehicle rather than legislation.

Perhaps I may also repeat the assurance given at Report stage that the code will cover the general issue of parking. As I said, I am not going to commit myself to the precise form of words which will appear in the draft code. There is little point in having drafts, and drafts of drafts, and a consultation process if I guarantee that such and such a set of words will appear. However, I can say that it is obvious that this is a matter which has to be addressed, in a form similar to the manner in which it has been raised this afternoon. I hope, therefore, that in the light of what I have said the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

Baroness Masham of Ilton: My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken and supported the amendment. I was rather disappointed with the woolly reply given by the Minister. I thought the arguments of the House were much better than the explanation given by the Government. If you cannot use public transport and have to use a car, and you cannot get into a building, you cannot have a job.

24 Oct 1995 : Column 1007

Some of the items listed in the Bill such as

    "modifying instructions or reference manuals"


    "modifying procedures for testing or assessment",

are much more specific than being able to park your car.

I wish the Minister had been able to give us a more definite assurance. Because I feel so strongly about the matter, and because I know so well young men who have broken their necks or their backs, I shall ask the House for its view.

5.34 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 7) shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 103; Not-Contents, 135.

Division No. 3


Addington, L.
Airedale, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Barnett, L.
Bath, M.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Birk, B.
Birmingham, Bp.
Broadbridge, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carter, L.
Clifford of Chudleigh, L.
Cranbrook, E.
Cross, V.
Darcy (de Knayth), B.
David, B.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Desai, L.
Donaldson of Kingsbridge, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Erroll, E.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Geraint, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L. [Teller.]
Glenamara, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grey, E.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Haskel, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Howell, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inchyra, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Kennet, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood, L.
Lawrence, L.
Leigh, L.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Macaulay of Bragar, L.
McCarthy, L.
McGregor of Durris, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLehose of Beoch, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Nicol, B.
Ogmore, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson, L.
Ritchie of Dundee, L.
Rix, L.
Robertson of Oakridge, L.
Robson of Kiddington, B.
Rochester, L.
Russell, E.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Serota, B.
Shannon, E.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strafford, E.
Swinfen, L. [Teller.]
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tonypandy, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Wyatt of Weeford, L.
Zouche of Haryngworth, L.


Addison, V.
Ailsa, M.
Annaly, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Balfour, E.
Barber, L.
Barber of Tewkesbury, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Blaker, L.
Boardman, L.
Borthwick, L.
Boyd-Carpenter, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byron, L.
Cadman, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Chesham, L. [Teller.]
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cochrane of Cults, L.
Courtown, E.
Cranborne, V. [Lord Privy Seal.]
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dormer, L.
Downshire, M.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elton, L.
Ferrers, E.
Forbes, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gage, V.
Geddes, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Gridley, L.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harmsworth, L.
Harrowby, E.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hogg, B.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Inglewood, L.
Kenyon, L.
Keyes, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lindsay, E.
Liverpool, E.
Long, V.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L. [Lord Chancellor.]
Macleod of Borve, B.
Marlesford, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Merrivale, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mountgarret, V.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Norfolk, D.
Northesk, E.
O'Cathain, B.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prentice, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rawlings, B.
Reay, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Rippon of Hexham, L.
Rodger of Earlsferry, L.
St. Davids, V.
Seccombe, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L. [Teller.]
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Torphichen, L.
Torrington, V.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Ullswater, V.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Westbury, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

24 Oct 1995 : Column 1009

5.43 p.m.

Lord Henley moved Amendments Nos. 8 to 10:

Page 5, line 43, leave out ("that the disabled person concerned").
Page 5, line 44, at beginning insert ("in the case of an applicant or potential applicant, that the disabled person concerned").
Page 5, line 45, at beginning insert ("in any case, that that person").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I spoke to these amendments with Amendment No. 3. I beg to move.

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish moved Amendment No. 11:

Page 6, line 26, at end insert—
("( ) This section does not apply in relation to any benefit under an occupational pension scheme or any other benefit payable in money or money's worth under a scheme or arrangement for the benefit of employees in respect of—
(a) termination of service;
(b) retirement, old age or death;
(c) accident, injury, sickness or invalidity; or
(d) any other prescribed matter.").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I spoke to this amendment when I moved to Amendment No. 4. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 7 [Exemption for small businesses]:

Lord Henley moved Amendment No. 12:

Page 6, line 39, leave out from beginning to end of line 40 and insert ("Before making any order under subsection (2), the Secretary of State shall").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, as currently drafted, the Bill ensures that a review of the threshold number in Clause 7 would precede any order proposing a change to the threshold before the fourth anniversary of the clause coming into force. Any proposed changes to the threshold after the fourth anniversary would not be subject to such a review.

The House will recall that at Report stage of the Bill last July, my noble friend Lady O'Cathain raised the issue of whether there should be a review before any change in the threshold, whenever it was proposed. I agreed during the debate to consider the matter further and return with any necessary amendment at this stage.

I said then that I believed the Government should always hold a review before deciding to change the threshold. Amendment No. 12 shows that I have not changed my mind. It will ensure that the Secretary of State will hold a review, whether the order is to be made within the first four years of the operation of the section or at any later time. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

5.45 p.m.

Clause 10 [Charities and support for particular groups of persons]:

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