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Lord Dubs: I listened carefully to the Minister's detailed exposition. He will appreciate that I think most of us will need to look at his words in Hansard before we can reach a full assessment of the position. My instincts tell me that these amendments represent a change for the better. However, I should like to reach a final conclusion when I have had a chance to consider in detail what the Minister said this evening.
Lord Coleraine: I found the amendments on the Marshalled List extremely difficult to understand. I look forward with great interest to reading my noble friend's contributions. I have one question to ask him. The consultation papers from the Department of the Environment were issued at a late stage. As far as I recollect, what was envisaged at the time was that only the parts of the amendments which needed to be dealt with by legislation would be dealt with; that is to say, the penal sanctions. At that time the proposal was that the remaining amendments to Part I of the 1985 Act would be dealt with under a Henry VIII clause contained in that part. I am, of course, delighted to find that so much of what was envisaged at that time is already contained in the amendments before us today. Are there any further amendments arising out of the consultation papers which remain to be dealt with under the Henry VIII provisions, or have the Government done in these amendments all that they thought needed to be done?
Lord Lucas: Indeed, there are no further amendments to be made under that heading. These days Henry VIII clauses are only allowed in Opposition amendments.
Lord Strabolgi: I wish to congratulate the Government on Amendment No. 252 which the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, said was to tighten up the matter involved in the Smith charity's sale to the Wellcome Foundation. If I remember rightly, it got round the situation by serving notice over the weekend when it knew that it would not be delivered. I am sure that what the Government have done will tighten up the position. Let us hope that the landlords' too clever by half lawyers will not be working on the legislation to find
further loopholes. At present it looks to me satisfactory. I am very glad that the Government have taken the issue in hand and recognised the scandal, for scandal it was.
Lord Monkswell: I thank the Minister for his detailed explanation. It may be pertinent to point out that this Bill has been through another place. It has been through quite a lot of parliamentary business already. An amendment of this complexity at this stage of the Bill's procedures seems a little tardy. It would assist parliamentary consideration if such an amendment could be included within the Bill at an earlier stage.
Lord Lucas: High as our opinion may be of our own deliberations, we must allow that occasionally another place will have good ideas and will impress them upon the Government. In that case, as in this instance, the Government will have to bring forward amendments when the Bill reaches this House.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
9.45 p.m.
Lord Lucas moved Amendment No. 252:
After Clause 85, insert the following new clause--
(".--(1) In section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (duty of new landlord to furnish particulars of disposal), for subsection (2) substitute--
"(2) The period referred to in subsection (1) is the period of four months beginning with the date by which--
(a) notices under section 3A of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (in this Act referred to as "the 1985 Act") relating to the original disposal, or
(b) where that section does not apply, documents of any other description indicating that the original disposal has taken place,
have been served on the requisite majority of qualifying tenants of the constituent flats."
(2) In section 12 of that Act (right of qualifying tenants to compel sale etc)--
(a) in subsection (2)(a) and (b), for "three months" substitute "six months"; and
(b) after subsection (3) insert--
"(3A) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (3), a purchase notice--
(a) shall require so much of the consideration for the original disposal as did not consist of money to be treated as such amount in money as was equivalent to its value in the hands of the landlord; and
(b) may provide for any such amount in money to be determined by a rent assessment committee in accordance with section 13."
(3) In section 13(1)(b) of that Act (determination by rent assessment committees of questions relating to purchase notices), after "section 12(3)(b)" insert "or (3A)(b)".
(4) In section 18(3)(a) of that Act (notices served by prospective purchaser), for "28 days" substitute "two months".
(5) Before section 19 of that Act under the heading "Supplementary" insert--
"Application of Part I to special cases.
18A. Schedule 1A (which provides for the application of this Part to special cases) shall have effect."
(6) After Schedule 1 to that Act insert, as Schedule 1A, the provisions set out in Schedule (Schedule 1A to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987) to this Act.").
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Lucas moved Amendment No. 253:
After Schedule 5, insert the following new schedule--
1.--(1) This paragraph applies where, in any case to which section 5 applies, the landlord proposes to make the relevant disposal by means of a sale at a public auction held in England and Wales.
(2) Section 5 shall have effect as if, in subsection (2)--
(a) for paragraphs (a) and (b) there were substituted--
"(a) contain particulars of the principal terms of the disposal proposed by the landlord, including in particular the property to which it relates and the estate or interest in that property proposed to be disposed of;
(aa) state that the disposal is proposed to be made by means of a sale at a public auction;
(ab) state the effect of paragraph 1 of Schedule 1A and of any election made under that paragraph;
(b) state that, accordingly, the notice constitutes an offer by the landlord, which may be accepted by the requisite majority of qualifying tenants of the constituent flats, for the contract (if any) entered into by the landlord at the auction to have effect as if a person or persons nominated by them, and not the purchaser, had entered into it;"; and.
(b) in paragraph (d), for "two months" there were substituted "28 days".
(3) The notice under section 5 must be served not less than four months, nor more than six months, before the date of the auction and--
(a) the period specified in the notice under section 5(2)(c) must end not less than two months before that date; and
(b) the period specified in the notice under section 5(2)(d) must end not less than 28 days before that date.
(4) Unless the time and place of the auction and the name of the auctioneers are stated in the notice under section 5, the landlord shall, not less than 28 days before the date of the auction, serve on the requisite majority of qualifying tenants of the constituent flats a further notice stating those particulars.
(5) Section 6 shall have effect as if, in subsection (3), for paragraph (a) there were substituted--
"(a) that the disposal is made by means of a sale at a public auction;".
(6) Section 8 shall have effect as if subsections (2) to (6) and (9) and, in subsection (7), "subsection (5) or" were omitted.
(7) Section 9 shall have effect as if, in subsection (2), for paragraphs (a) and (b) there were substituted--
"(a) that the disposal is made by means of a sale at a public auction, and
(b) that the other terms on which the disposal is made must correspond to those specified in the offer notice."
(8) A person nominated for the purposes of section 6 by the requisite majority of qualifying tenants of the constituent flats may, by notice served on the landlord not less than 28 days before the date of the auction, elect that sub-paragraphs (9) to (12) shall apply; and if such an election is made, those sub-paragraphs shall apply accordingly.
(9) If a contract for the disposal is entered into at the auction, the landlord shall, within the period of 7 days beginning with the date of the auction, send a copy of the contract to the nominated person.
(10) If, within the period of 28 days beginning with date on which such a copy is so sent, the nominated person--
(a) serves notice on the landlord accepting the terms of the contract; and
(b) fulfils any conditions falling to be fulfilled by the purchaser on entering into the contract,
the contract shall have effect as if the nominated person, and not the purchaser, had entered into the contract.
(11) Nothing in the contract as it has effect by virtue of sub-paragraph (10) shall require the nominated person to complete the purchase before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which he is deemed to have entered into the contract.
(12) Sections 11 to 17 shall have effect as if the reference in section 11(1)(b) to any provision of sections 6 to 10 included a reference to any provision of this paragraph.
(13) If a person nominated for the purposes of section 6 by the requisite majority of qualifying tenants of the constituent flats--
(a) does not serve notice on the landlord under sub-paragraph (8) within the period there mentioned; or
(b) does not satisfy the requirements of sub-paragraph (10) within the period there mentioned,
sections 6(8) and 9(1) shall apply as if a notice in pursuance of section 9(1) were served at the end of that period.
2.--(1) This paragraph applies where, in any case to which section 5 applies, the consideration required by the landlord for making the disposal does not consist, or does not wholly consist, of money.
(2) Section 5 shall have effect as if, in subsection (2)--
(a) after paragraph (b) there were inserted--
"(bb) state the effect of paragraph 2 of Schedule 1A and of any election made under that paragraph;
(bc) state that, accordingly, the notice also constitutes an offer by the landlord, which may be accepted by the requisite majority of qualifying tenants of the constituent flats, for a person or persons nominated by them to acquire the property in pursuance of sections 11 to 17;";
(b) in paragraph (c), for "that offer" there were substituted "either offer"; and
(c) in paragraph (d), after "which", in the first place where it occurs, there were inserted "(where the offer stated under paragraph (b) is accepted)".
(3) Section 6 shall have effect as if, in subsection (1)(b), for "the offer contained in his notice" there were substituted "the offer stated in his notice under section 5(2)(b)".
(4) If, within the section 5(2)(c) period, the requisite majority of qualifying tenants of the constituent flats accept the offer stated in that notice under section 5(2)(bc)--
(a) section 8 shall not have effect, and
(b) that majority of such tenants may, by notice served on the landlord within the section 5(2)(d) period, elect that sub-paragraph (6) shall apply;
and if such an election is made, that sub-paragraph shall apply accordingly.
(5) In sub-paragraph (4)--
"the section 5(2)(c) period" means--
(a) the period specified in the offer notice under section 5(2)(c), or
(b) such longer period beginning with the date of service of that notice as may be agreed between the landlord and the requisite majority of qualifying tenants of the constituent flats;
"the section 5(2)(d) period" means--
(a) the period beginning with the date of service of the acceptance notice and ending with the end of the period specified in the offer notice under section 5(2)(d), or
(b) such longer period beginning with that date as may be so agreed.
(6) If the landlord disposes of the protected interest without contravening section 6(3)(a) and (b), sections 11 to 17 shall also have effect as if--
(a) no notice under section 5 had been served;
(b) in section 11(2), the reference to four months were a reference to 28 days;
(c) in section 12(2), each reference to six months were a reference to two months.
3. Where--
(a) paragraphs (a) and (b) of section 11(1) apply to a relevant disposal affecting any premises to which at the time of the disposal this Part applied ("the original disposal"), and
(b) those premises are still premises to which this Part applies, and
(c) the original disposal was the grant of an option or right of pre-emption, and
(d) in pursuance of the option or right, the landlord makes another disposal affecting the premises ("the later disposal") before the end of the period specified in section 12(2),
sections 11 to 17 shall have effect as if the later disposal, and not the original disposal, were the relevant disposal."").
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 86 [Duty of new landlord to inform tenant of rights]:
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