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Lord Bassam of Brighton: I shall respond to the points made by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and the noble Lord, Lord Judd, in the following sense. Community solidarity is terribly important and, like me, the noble Lord thinks that our society would be more orderly if there was more of it; perhaps we grieve the passing of a more contented time. It is important that we consider those matters. What we are trying to do is in a sense to reinforce or underpin that community solidarity, and we see as an outrage acts of anti-social behaviour such as those he and I are familiar with in our different and wider political work.
The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, raised questions about the need for more informed debate in this area. The Youth Justice Board is conducting research into the way in which anti-social behaviour orders have impacted on younger offenders. Obviously, those who have an interest in this field are completely able to make approaches to the Youth Justice Board, and to submit whatever views and provide it with whatever evidence they wish. I have no doubt that, since we are a long time into the process of using anti-social behaviour orders as a tool that enables communities to fight back against anti-social behaviour, as this policy programme continues to develop it needs to be better informed, and we need to make it more precise and to understand better its impact.
I reflect on my community work and contact with our local communities, and I have found a broad welcome for what we have managed to achieve through this programme and by attacking anti-social behaviour in this direct way. That is not to say that it should always be above criticism, nor should we not seek to refine and improve the policy, because that clearly has some merit. Even its most fierce critics—I have been given a flavour of them this afternoon—will agree that the anti-social behaviour order has a place in the package of measures that can be used to tackle crime in our communities.
Baroness Linklater of Butterstone: I am most grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken so eloquently on behalf of my amendment. I say to the Minister that of course it is down to the court to decide about naming and shaming, but I am sorry to hear that he feels that what I have said is a recycling of what I have said previously, or that he has heard my speech before.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: I was not seeking to be disparaging in any way. I want to make one point. The noble Baroness falls into a trap when she says that it is all about naming and shaming. I invite her to think that it is something more than that. I went to some length to describe how I envisage the process working, how I watch it work and the sort of impact that it can have in a community. We need to understand that, because a whole constituency of people out there sees the value of knowing and understanding why young people are brought to book in such a way. It is right that that happens on many occasions and I am sure that she would accept it.
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Baroness Linklater of Butterstone: I was going to say that the noble Lord simply said that he had heard my speech before, and that I of course acknowledge that naming and shaming—an issue about which I have not spoken in this House previously—is part of a wider range of problems and difficulties that children and communities face. I entirely endorse what the noble Lord, Lord Judd, said so eloquently—that we have to acknowledge what communities can suffer at the hands of damaged, disturbed and disturbing young people. When we are talking about communities, we are also talking about those children; they are part of the community.
The essence of our argument is that we recognise the disturbance, the discomfort and, often, the agony that law-abiding citizens go through, but we also have to address the strategies that will protect them from further such behaviour—strategies that will contribute to changing the behaviour of these children, who are and most probably will remain part of the communities. If we merely name and shame or punish and do not look at how to take things forward constructively, we will not achieve what we all want, which is peaceful, happy and contented communities in which everyone can live together. Preventing reoffending is what we are all about.
The proposed new clause would simply shift the balance back to where it was before with a presumption of anonymity. Of course, it is down to the court to decide whether to publicise details, but previously the presumption was in favour of anonymity in recognition of the need to protect children under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and, indeed, in recognition of children’s needs in general. I am simply saying that that balance has been shifted around so that the presumption is now in favour of publicity. One might say that it is a very small detail, but it is vital if we are to deal constructively with the damage that can be caused by such young people.
I am also grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, for pointing out the significant lack of real research into, and understanding of, the outcomes of ASBOs. It would be fair to say to the Minister that the jury is still out on ASBOs. As he will know, there is a whole raft of strategies within communities under all sorts of headings whereby children and their problematic behaviour can be addressed. When an ASBO is breached, for example, a child is criminalised, but currently there may be all sorts of ways in which the courts can act. The balance between the needs of the community and the needs of disturbed and disturbing children remains the issue. We should be doing all that we can to see that communities can live together in harmony and that the children’s behaviour can be changed.
I shall reflect on this matter because it is deeply significant. We will definitely return to it with vigour later in the Bill but, in the mean time, I reluctantly beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
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Schedule 7 [Amendments to the Crime and Disorder Act 1998]:
[Amendments Nos. 117 to 126 not moved.]
Clause 21 [Parenting contracts: local authorities and registered social landlords]:
Baroness Linklater of Butterstone moved Amendment No. 126A:
The noble Baroness said: I shall also speak to Amendments Nos. 126B, 126C, 129A and 129C, and I hope that noble Lords will not feel that I am repeating myself yet again.
The purpose of the amendment is to ensure that a parenting contract or order is made only when a child has actually engaged in anti-social behaviour and not simply when he or she is likely to engage in such behaviour. It seems to me that this is another form of intervention that is likely to disengage the child and family concerned and to be counterproductive when the child has not done anything. If anything, it runs the risk of creating a situation ripe for a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is completely undesirable.
4.15 pm
A parenting contract is meant to be a voluntary exercise with the purpose of promoting the well-being of the child and giving parental support, which is very important. There has rightly been a general welcome for these contracts where families receive appropriate support at an early enough stage that real preventive work can be done, resulting in averting further problematic behaviour and potential offending. This is exactly the approach that is needed, as it is constructive, creative and positive, as opposed to negative and destructive, as the naming and shaming strategy has proved to be. But to anticipate offending is a step too far.
We must not forget that the sting in the tail of the contract is that a refusal to sign one can lead to a parenting order, the breach of which is a criminal offence. The voluntary nature of the contract is heavily qualified by these conditions. Indeed, the evidence so far is that a disproportionate number of parenting orders as opposed to contracts is being made. In the last quarter of 2005, there were only 54 contracts and 396 orders. Not enough is yet known about how those orders have been used.
The last three of my amendments in the group seek to ensure that the purpose of both contracts and orders is not simply to prevent anti-social behaviour but explicitly to address the well-being of the individual child, as specified in Section 10(2) of the Children Act 2004. It would seem axiomatic to most reasonable people that that would be the case, but it needs to be spelt out. It should be done by undertaking an assessment of the child using the government guidelines in Common Assessment Framework for Children and Young People. All professionals should make such an assessment before
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YOTs are now required to complete an “Asset” assessment, which helps to determine the extent to which parenting is a factor in a child's difficult behaviour. It is only common sense that anybody authorised to draw up contracts or orders should be expected to use the framework as well. That has been established under the Every Child Matters programme to assess the well-being of the child. I beg to move.
Viscount Bridgeman: I will speak to Amendments Nos. 128 and 129 in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Anelay, and I will comment on the other amendments in the group.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, has highlighted, the purpose of the amendments to Clauses 21 and 22 are to write into the Bill that the purpose of using parenting orders and contracts is a dual one: to promote the well-being of the child as well as trying to prevent anti-social behaviour. The amendments aim to test the true voluntary nature of parenting contracts and to gain assurances that they will be used as a last resort. The noble Baroness has highlighted concerns with which we have great sympathy. This theme has been running throughout our discussions on this part of the Bill.
Your Lordships’ House has a strong reputation on children's issues, especially in the application of improving outcomes for the most vulnerable children and their families, predominantly guided by the principles set out in Section 10 of the ChildrenAct 2004. Indeed, in many ways these debates link into those that we had recently on the Childcare Bill, the Children and Adoption Bill and the Work and Families Bill, as well as those that are currently ongoing on the Education and Inspections Bill. All those Bills touched issues of disrupted family life, care and learning difficulties, which all feed into possible underlying reasons for anti social behaviour. That only goes to highlight the vital need for cross-departmental co-operation on children and family matters. Out of interest, can the Minister, with her concern for joined-up government, indicate whether the different teams and Ministers on these Bills have met to discuss how this overarching subject is played out across them?
Amendments Nos. 128 and 129 look at the detail of the proposed powers for social landlords and at whether it is appropriate for them to be able to use them on those who, in the words of the Bill, are “likely to engage” in anti-social behaviour under new Section 25B(1)(a)(ii), as inserted by Clause 21, or appear,
under new Section 26A(1)(b), as inserted by Clause 22.
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Amendment No. 128 tightens up the wording in new Section 25B(1)(a)(i), which enables the RSL to enter into a parenting contract with a parent if he has “reason to believe” that the child is likely to engage in such behaviour. Can the Minister inform the Committee what would constitute “reason to believe”?
Definitions and thresholds of behaviour are widely drafted in this Bill. The drafting could mean that any parent becoming a tenant is pressured to sign a parenting contract to ensure that their child does not become involved in anti-social behaviour. I hope that this is not the Government’s intention, but one could argue that the potential is always there. The definition is too broad. How will one judge whether the power is being used appropriately, and who is to check? We have already heard the arguments regarding lack of training, which is a theme that pervades discussions on the Bill.
These amendments replace the wording so that the RSL could use the power only if the child had engaged in anti-social behaviour or “had threatened” to do so. I took this turn of phrase from the Joint Committee on Human Rights report, page 14, paragraph 1.34, regarding anti-social behaviour injunctions. It states that courts must be satisfied that the person against whom the injunction is sought is,
in such action. The use of “threatened” would be much more appropriate in this context, as well as offering some compromise between those who would like the power completely removed and those who would like it kept.
Amendment No. 129, on the other hand, is a straight removal of the power of the RSL to apply for contracts in relation to children who appear,
The paragraph implies that an order could be made against a parent with whom the child or young person does not reside, and who may have little control over their behaviour. That raises many questions. For example, what criteria would be used to determine whether they appear to reside in the area? Should they be present every day or every weekend? Over what length of time should they be present? Will they be able to pin these children to particular parents, who may not have parental responsibility for them? Will the RSL have a duty to take disability into account in this context, as we discussed in relation to previous amendments? I hope that the Minister will give these points consideration in her reply.
I will not reiterate the figures that the noble Baroness has already shared with the Committee, but it is worrying that, since April 2004, significantly fewer parenting contracts than parenting orders have been issued. If orders were being used as a last resort, it would be the other way around. I hope that the Minister can explain this discrepancy and take the time to outline the exact process via which an order can be made without a contract.
Giving parenting contracts a statutory duty to improve the well-being of the child, particularly on the fourth area listed in the 2004 Act—the contribution made by them to society—enables a more holistic assessment to
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Lord Hylton: I support a number of amendments in this group, particularly Amendments Nos. 126A, 126B, 128, 129A and 129C. I feel strongly that the drafting of these two clauses needs to be tightened. For example, “is likely to” is too vague; greater precision is needed. When the Minister replies, I hope that she will say whether the National Housing Federation was consulted concerning registered social landlords and what the uptake of counselling and guidance by parents under contracts and orders has been.
The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal): I hoped that the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, would be pleased by these clauses for the reasons highlighted in the last debate. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, made the point that parenting orders have been the most creative way forward, and the noble Baroness has indicated that she agrees with that view, but is concerned that parenting orders should not be used too early.
I shall make a few comments in parenthesis. When one has the privilege of talking to families that participated in the parenting order process, one hears the common complaints that no one offered them that help and support earlier. They feel that had they had the benefit of something like a parenting order before their children’s behaviour accelerated to such a state that they were committing in public the difficult behaviour evidenced at home, much would have changed and been better. I have been a practitioner in that world since 1977, and when it was first proposed that parenting orders should be imposed, unlike parenting contracts where one obtains the assent of the parents, I was very concerned about whether they would work. My concern has been allayed by what parents have told us.
I am sure that noble Lords involved in this debate, all of whom have a keen interest in children, have looked at Positive Parenting: The National Evaluation of the Youth Justice Board's Parenting Programme which was published in 2002. Research showed that parenting programmes had a positive impact on parents and young people and those parents exiting those programmes had a low rate of negative comment. Only six per cent felt negative or indifferent to the programme they went through, and nine out of 10 said that they would recommend it to other parents in their situation. Improving Children’s Behaviour and Attendance Through the Use of Parenting Programmes, which was published in 2004, echoed similar good results. Overall, the programmes were reported to have a very positive impact on parents’ relationships with their children and the children’s behaviour. Many parents who had initially expressed reservations and even outright hostility were, by the end, saying positive things about the intervention, with some describing it as a lifeline.
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I need to be clear and unapologetic in saying that the Government’s view is that if we can get help to parents who need it early, we can reduce the level of dysfunction and bad behaviour to the benefit of children and parents. Most parents want to be good parents. There are not large numbers of parents who positively want to be bad. Therefore, early intervention is a positive, not a negative. For that reason, parenting orders should not be used as a last resort. When a problem is identified, parents need help. We need to try to get help to parents as quickly as possible to deal with that poor behaviour. It is often evidenced on the estate, but may not have crossed the line to the extent that one wants immediately to arrest the individual and deal with him through the criminal justice system. However, the annoyance and irritation is of a high level. We want to use the opportunity creatively to help and support parents who actually need better to control their children.
4.30 pm
The whole purpose of the parenting contracts and the orders provision in the Bill is about prevention—either preventing the child or young person from engaging in anti-social behaviour, or, in the case of an order, preventing the child or young person from engaging in further anti-social behaviour. The new sections inserted by Clause 21 make clear that a parenting contract will include requirements on both the parents and the local authority, which will ensure that the contract is effective. Similarly, a parenting order will make clear that a parent must comply for up to 12 months with any requirements of the order.
I first turn to Amendments Nos. 126B, 126C, 129A and 129C in the name of the noble Baroness. Their requirements seek to improve the child’s well-being. I want to reassure the noble Baroness. I believe that these requirements are already fundamentally a part of the order because it is about improving the well-being of the child. For example, there may be a requirement on parents to ensure that the child is effectively supervised at certain times, that the child attends school or other relevant education regularly, and that the parents attend all school meetings concerning their child. There may also be requirements on parents to ensure that their child attends a programme or course to address relevant problems such as anger management or drug or alcohol misuse. All those things go towards the well-being of the child.
The local authority will be responsible for ensuring that a careful assessment is made of the child’s situation, and we would expect the common assessment framework to be used. The framework is a holistic assessment and looks at various facets of a child’s life including his needs, the level of care given by the parents and the wider family and environment. All this will go towards ensuring that any requirements made will always have as their priority the well-being of the young person or child. I know
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We want contracts to be used as an earlier intervention. Many of these will be straightforward, and we think it right that the purpose should be kept as simple as possible. This, of course, would not prevent more significant support being offered to parents in appropriate cases. On orders, the court will need to be satisfied that a proper assessment is made of the child and that any requirements made go towards ensuring that help and support is provided to parents so that they can improve their parenting skills and improve their children’s behaviour.
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