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The noble Baroness said: This amendment will ensure that persons accredited by the police under Clause 13 are not eligible to serve as chairman or members of the Independent Police Complaints Commission. This will bring them into line with other categories of accredited person. I beg to move.
Lord Dholakia: I am rather confused. Did the Minister just talk about the members of the Police Complaints Authority under Amendment No. 193A?
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Haskel): It is Amendment No. 194A.
Lord Dholakia: I was talking about No. 193A.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: I thought we were on Amendment No. 194A. I beg the Committees’s pardon. Amendment No. 193A was in a group that was debated and agreed previously by the Committee, and I was going to move it formally. I went straighton to the next substantive amendment, Amendment No. 194A.
Lord Dholakia: I intended to ask another question on Amendment No. 193A. I hope the Minister will not mind. This is about Section 2 of the Computer Misuse Act. I find it very difficult to understand why a person guilty of an offence in England and Wales under subsection (5) is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, but, on summary conviction in Scotland for the same offence, is liable to a term not exceeding six months. I wanted to know precisely why there was this difference.
The second point I wanted to talk about, following the argument used by the noble Earl, Lord Northesk, was on Amendments Nos. 193A and 193B. We were talking about computer hacking. The government amendment talks about Section 5 of the Computer Misuse Act, which says:
- “that any computer containing any program or data to which the accused secured or intended to secure unauthorised access by doing that act was in the home country concerned at that time”.
That is as far as England and Wales are concerned. I suspect it also applies to the sheriffdom in Scotland. There are cases of computer hacking going on at
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Baroness Scotland of Asthal: I confess that to give the noble Lord a full explanation about the latter issue would take a little time, not least because of the complexities of the matters raised by the noble Earl, Lord Northesk, who is not in his place. I ask the noble Lord if he will allow me to write to him on those matters.
On the difference between England and Wales and Scotland, the noble Lord will be only too familiar with the fact that the two jurisdictions have slight differences. The different sentences simply reflect the sentencing provisions in each jurisdiction. That is one of the consequences of devolution. The Scots have their own sentencing structure, and the sentences relate directly to the slightly different offences inthe relevant sections. It is consistent in terms of devolution, although inconsistent in terms of sentencing levels.
I hope the noble Lord is content. I had thought, because these amendments were debated already, that we would have the luxury of simply moving them, but it is always a pleasure to answer the noble Lord.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendments Nos. 193B to 194A:
“(b) any computer containing any program or data to which the accused by doing that act secured or intended to secure unauthorised access, or enabled or intended to enable unauthorised access to be secured, was in the sheriffdom at that time.””“( ) In subsection (2), after “such access” there is inserted “or to enable such access to be secured”.”
In section 91 of the Police Act 1996 (offence of causing disaffection amongst members of police forces etc), after subsection (2) there is inserted-
“(3) Liability under subsection (1) for any behaviour is in addition to any civil liability for that behaviour.””
(2) In the cross-heading before section 47 (restrictions on reporting directions under Chapter 1 or 2 of Part 2) and in the heading to that section, for “Chapter I or II” there is substituted “Chapter 1, 1A or 2”.
(3) In section 47, in subsection (2)(a), after “section 19”, in the first place it occurs, there is inserted “, 33A”.”
“In section 9 of the Police Reform Act 2002 (the Independent Police Complaints Commission), in subsection (3)(d), after “section 41” there is inserted “or 41A”.”
On Question, amendments agreed to.
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Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 194B:
“46 (1) Section 26 of that Act (parenting orders in respect of criminal conduct and anti-social behaviour) is amended as follows.
“(9) A person is eligible to be the responsible officer in relation to a parenting order under this section only if he is a member of a youth offending team.””
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 194C:
Page 158, line 9, leave out from first “officers” to “registered” in line 10 and insert “in relation to parenting orders made on the application of local authorities in England or of”
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendments Nos. 194D to 194F:
Page 158, line 18, leave out from first “officers” to “registered” in line 19 and insert “in relation to parenting orders made on the application of local authorities in Wales or of”
Page 158, line 30, leave out from “29),” to end of line 42 and insert “in the definition of “responsible officer”, for the words after “means” there is substituted “the person who is specified as such in the order,”
After section 75 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (proceedings under section 74: exclusion of public), there is inserted-
Section 57C of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 (use of live link in sentencing hearings) applies to hearings in proceedings relating to a reference under section 74(3) as it applies to sentencing hearings.””
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Schedule 15, as amended, agreed to.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendments Nos. 194G and 194H:
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“(5A) Subsection (5) does not apply to the amendments made by paragraph 31A of Schedule 15, which do not extend to Scotland.”
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Clause 52, as amended, agreed to.
[Amendments Nos. 195 and 196 not moved.]
Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 197:
Line 13, after “2003;” insert “to make further provision about the use of live links in criminal proceedings;”
On Question, amendment agreed to.
House resumed: Bill reported with amendments.
Parliamentary Costs Bill [HL]
The Bill was reported from the Joint Committee without amendment and recommitted to a Committee of the Whole House.
National Health Service Bill [HL]
The Bill was reported from the Joint Committee with amendments and recommitted to a Committee of the Whole House; it was ordered that the Bill be printed as amended.
National Health Service (Wales) Bill [HL]
The Bill was reported from the Joint Committee with amendments and recommitted to a Committee of the Whole House; it was ordered that the Bill be printed as amended.
National Health Service (Consequential Provisions) Bill [HL]
The Bill was reported from the Joint Committee with amendments and recommitted to a Committee of the Whole House; it was ordered that the Bill be printed as amended.
- House adjourned at thirteen minutes before ten o’clock.
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