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The IB will have an enormous effect on A-levels. The setting of the IB tariff by UCAS will galvanise any school with academic pretensions because it offers a way, and not necessarily for the brightest children—some schools use the IB for less bright children—to get UCAS points in a completely different environment to what has become in some cases very debased A-levels. Economics A-level is about GCSE style. It is terrible—totally uninspiring and boring. As the IB can be done in state schools, over the next five years it will offer a real challenge to A-levels, and they will have to improve to match it. I should like to see the IGCSE coming into the key stage 4 curriculum for that purpose. It is very much designed as a vehicle for getting to A-levels, so it will suit those schools that are focused on A-levels. I agree that it is not for everybody but it will also suit children who are focused on A-levels, and there are some of them in every school. By offering a real alternative it will make those responsible for GCSE respond, and ensure that their exams really suit the children who have to take them, which they absolutely do not at the moment.
As my noble friend said, the IGCSE is an enormously well respected exam. Everybody understands what it is. It is now being taken up by a fast growing number of the best schools in the United Kingdom. Frankly, it is ridiculous that it should not be permitted to be taught and examined in all schools. Further, I should like to see the International Baccalaureate early years system trialled in our state schools. Again, that is well practised and well respected internationally. It does not produce examination results at 16. I suppose something might be done about that in a gentle way, or it might be trialled in the earlier years. It has a very good and successful pedigree. When we are looking at an examination system that does not produce what we as a nation need, we ought to go out there, see what we can find and try it.
Baroness Howe of Idlicote: I cannot resist speaking to this series of amendments because they hit on two areas about which I am very concerned. I want to say a few words about the scientific side. We have had a brilliant series of inspiring speeches, particularly from the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe.
We do not need to go into the appalling situation of science again. As the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, has said, many schools are already playing with—and more than playing with—the idea of going for the International Baccalaureate. I think that I have heard hints that the QCA is looking at something along those lines, so it may be that we are at the beginning of a process of change. It is absolutely essential that something happens quickly if we are falling so far behind.
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5.45 pm
I would like to address the language side of things. I am particularly sorry that my noble friend Lady O’Neill is not here. I remember in the early months after I was lucky enough to become a Member of your Lordships’ House, the whole question of language learning was very much on the agenda. Suddenly, it was no longer part of the curriculum, and immediately we were seeing the result; some children and the less academic schools were already starting to give it up. Fewer people were taking the subject at university level, and there was a real spiralling downwards in that respect. That concern remains. Parallel to all of that, we had the Government’s commitment for the first time—and this hit me as something that I had not taken in at all—that by 2010 every primary school pupil would have the chance to learn a foreign language. That was a lovely thought, but the idea that they were then likely to go on and not continue it because it was not part of the curriculum was a pretty worrying progress report for the future.
What we are now seeing, which I find quite extraordinary, is the extent to which out there the demand for languages seems to be growing. Every national paper you can think of is now giving us a disc from which you can learn French in a week, Italian in a week or Spanish in a week. It is clear that our great newspaper proprietors think that there is a need for it and that it will help sell their papers. More than that, there must be recognition that we do need languages. One language extra to your own prepares you almost instinctively to be able to take on other languages. Apart from anything else, there is a great need to understand and share the culture of other countries, and what better way can you do that than by learning a bit about one another’s languages? We know how many languages we have in this country. There is a parallel with the discussion that we had last time on religion and the way that an understanding of one another’s religions and beliefs can have the huge effect of making a more inclusive society.
I very much hope that there will be some action here and that the Government will take a very positive line on the amendments, which clearly are crucial for our future. I commend the marvellous array of knowledge that we have heard from Members of this House. It just goes to show how important it is to keep the element of your Lordships’ House that allows this degree of diversity to come in and means that it is not all based on political parties, elections and so on. Finally, I so agree with the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, about the need to combine the academic and the vocational subjects. I support what everyone has said.
Lord Dearing: The Minister is showing signs of rising, but he would perhaps prefer to hear about all the amendments in the group first. I was so wrapped up the debate that I forgot about my own amendment, and I should like to come back to it, because it is important to me. It is not an amendment that I expect the Minister to accept. It says:
- “It
shall be the duty of the Secretary of State to ensure that sufficient
funds are made available for pupils work-related learning under this
section”.
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I tabled the amendment because in Clause 67 the Government make explicit provision for work-related learning and spell out in a subsection what that means. They are serious about it. That fully reflects the comments of Ivan Lewis MP, former Minister for Skills and Vocational Education, who stated:
- “Work
experience remains our single biggest co-ordinated engagement between
the worlds of work and education. It’s a vital bridge that
provides many benefits in its own right for the pupil, the school, the
employer, and gives young people meaningful insight into working life,
allows them to make better informed career choices and helps them to
overcome misconceptions about business. It should be a key vehicle in
delivering plans for work related learning, enterprise education and
vocational
GCSEs”.
I declare an interest as the patron of a body called Trident, which organises work experience for pupils. Trident and other such bodies engage some 300,000 employers—a vast number—and 400,000 pupils. I have been concerned that, in spite of the importance of work experience, the Learning and Skills Council has reduced funding for it over the past two years by some £10 million. As might be expected, this cannot be seen to foster the development of work-related learning or, via the foundation, the Government’s ambition to introduce eight or nine vocational options post-14.
It seems wrong that that provision should be contracted when there is such commitment and intention for further engagement. I note that over the next three years £60 million has been found for enterprise learning. That is not mentioned in the Bill as a requirement; work-related learning is. I am surprised that one is in and one is out and I very much hope that the Government can give an assurance that adequate funding for work-related experience will be made available and the need met. This matter needs attention now.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: I apologise; I have no amendment in this group but my name has been mentioned, and I have put my name to amendments tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, particularly on science teaching. I wish to say a few words about the extremely coherent, excellent speech made by the noble Baroness and the issues that she raised.
We on these Benches very much support the amendments on science teaching. I am a member of the Select Committee investigating science teaching in schools. It is an extremely interesting inquiry and we shall come up with some good proposals for the Minister. The noble Lord, Lord Dearing, asked whether we would find enough teachers. That is the main constraint at the moment. To provide separate science subjects in schools for all pupils is impossible, because there are not enough physics and chemistry teachers at present.
However, we are
developing more of them and there is a degree to which the issue
becomes self-fulfilling. What emerges from the evidence that we have
heard is that, on the whole, pupils respond
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The noble Lord, Lord Dearing, was also correct when he talked about distance learning. A visit that we made to the National Science Learning Centre at York indicated two things: first, how important constant and high-quality retraining is for teachers; and, secondly, that a great many exciting new technologies are available to help teachers to move their subject forward and to present it as exciting.
One also realises how important hands-on science is. We have moved away from it a little, partly, but not entirely, for health and safety reasons and also because it is much easier to teach if only the teacher does the experiment. One of the dangers of the new syllabus that is coming forward is that, to some extent, it offers much more science in society. It is vital that we put across the concept of scientific method, careful measuring, testing hypotheses against measurements and seeing whether the experiment meets the hypothesis. That is the essence of scientific method, and one thing that we need to get children to learn from science is scientific method.
I want briefly to talk about modern foreign languages. The noble Baroness, Lady Howe, was correct. During the passage of the Education Bill in 2002, we got promises about languages in primary education. The noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, the Minister at that time, persuaded us that there were many goodies down the line, but we probably all now very much regret that we allowed modern foreign languages to slip out of that foundation category of subjects.
The international baccalaureate has been long supported on these Benches. We feel that we are the only country in the world that narrows down education so much for 16 and 17 year-olds. The baccalaureate maintains a much wider portfolio of subjects and gets away from totally formulaic testing.
I am sorry that the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, is not in the next group, where it should be, because we will be talking about vocational education in that group. But the fact remains that Tomlinson was trying to develop something broader and closer to the baccalaureate approach of a diploma, including, for example, a long essay. Although it does not necessarily meet all that one is looking for, a great deal in it could have met the requirements. I am very sorry that the Government have not taken the challenge posed by Tomlinson for a broader diploma approach. There has been talk of an English baccalaureate. Some people have done a lot of work on that, and I think that we could have developed something appropriate and far more fit for purpose in examining young people.
20 July 2006 : Column 1512
Lord Adonis: In her very impressive speech, the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, raised a wide range of issues, and I shall do my best to cover as many of them as I can. However, perhaps I may stand back for just a moment. As the Minister responsible for the school curriculum, these issues are on my mind day in and day out. They involve some very difficult trade-offs, and perhaps I may bring out the nature of those trade-offs.
I believe that one of the most difficult decisions that we took as a Government was to disapply the statutory requirement that pupils must continue to study a modern foreign language up to the age of 16. I emphasise to the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, that we did not withdraw modern languages from the curriculum—I can think of nothing more monstrous that a Government could do. We did something distinctly different: we no longer made it a statutory requirement that pupils should study languages at key stage 4. That was an immensely difficult decision to take and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, said, we did so in conjunction with a significant boost to primary languages. That has been successful—I have the figures, which I can give to the noble Baroness. There is a significant increase in language teaching in primary schools, and I hope that that may go some way to realising the ambitions that the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, had back in the 1970s. It is a very sad state of affairs that in this country historically we did not start teaching languages until pupils had reached the age of 11.
Why did we make that change at key stage 4? We did so for two reasons. First, we come back to the issue of bureaucracy. As anyone who visited the schools will know, a large number of pupils were seriously disengaged from the study of languages at key stage 4. For them, it was far more appropriate and in the interests of their employability, their engagement in school and so on that they should follow vocational programmes of study. Those were increasingly available but could not be timetabled properly with the other requirements.
6 pm
Before we made the change, it was necessary for schools to get each individual pupil disapplied by the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority. That was a massively bureaucratic process, even with administrators of the capacity of the noble Lord, Lord Dearing. Expecting him and his officials to engage in that level of central prescription and bureaucratic form-filling had the effect of the burdens on schools which we debated earlier. The trade-off that we had to face was whether we were prepared to see schools enter fewer candidates for language GCSEs because we wanted to enlarge the options offered to pupils, particularly in the vocational areas of study, and to remove an extremely bureaucratic process. That was one of the most difficult trade-offs that we had to make.
The
other example of a trade-off is precisely that given by the noble Lord,
Lord Dearing, in response to the issue of the three sciences: whether
the key stage 3 programme, which is currently a three-year programme of
study for most people, should be reduced to two years. We have had a
pilot of a two-year key stage 3,
20 July 2006 : Column 1513
The geography and history communities are very strongly opposed to that move because history and geography are mandatory in key stage 3 but not in key stage 4. So other subject communities see the very benefit that the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, seeks to achieve—having longer to teach the sciences, making it easier to teach the three individual sciences—as being at the expense of their own subject, which is no longer a statutory requirement. Those are the trade-offs that we have to face in this area, day in and day out. There is no easy answer to them. Almost all subject associations that enter my office want their subjects to be mandatory; they want a more substantial programme of study and they give me 15 very important reasons, connected with the national economy and the development of individuals, why that should be so. If we did them all, pupils would never get time to sleep, let alone to engage in the many other extracurricular activities such as sport in which we want them to participate. That puts the matter into context for the Committee and shows the trade-offs that we face.
I am very mindful of Helmut Schmidt’s famous remark on languages, which I think he made to a Labour Party conference. He said that they are delighted to sell to us in English but it would be good if at least sometimes they could buy from us in German. Perhaps he would now refer to Spanish—although maybe not in respect of Germany. That highlights the problem. In most countries in the world now, the foreign language that is taught is English.
Part of our problem in focusing high-quality language teaching in our schools is deciding which language should be taught. The noble Baroness, Lady Williams, mentioned Spanish. I am glad to say that Spanish teaching is increasing in our schools. The number of entries for GCSE Spanish has risen from 34,400 to 51,700 in the past nine years. There has been a big improvement in Spanish. Of course, traditionally, French has been the main foreign language taught in our schools, and it is still given primacy in PGCE courses and training.
The trade-offs here are difficult, including that in respect of Mandarin, which the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, mentioned. We have not extended Mandarin into the entitlements, as she sought—or Arabic, which she also mentioned—precisely because we want to promote the official working languages of the European Union, which we regard as important in our wider European policy. Clearly there would be a benefit if we also taught those other languages, but it would be likely that in some schools no European language would be taught or given primacy. That is precisely the kind of trade-off we are talking about.
Our
policy on languages has been to introduce better interactive materials,
such as the languages ladder. I sent the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, our
interactive materials in Spanish, including the dance mat, which I
think she has been performing on recently. We have been doing a good
deal to improve the quality of
20 July 2006 : Column 1514
By 2010, we will have funded 6,000 primary trainees to follow a teacher training course which also develops their language skills. There is evidence that this is bearing fruit. In 2002, only 21 per cent of schools were offering language programmes—most of them on an extracurricular basis, not even in the main school teaching time. A survey in January 2005 found that 56 per cent of all primary schools were either delivering language programmes or had plans to do so, so there has been a significant advance. That provides hope for the follow-through into secondary schools and up to GCSE.
We had a recent debate about history, on a Motion by the noble Lord, Lord Luke, in which I gave a full account of what the Government were seeking to do. I refer noble Lords to that, rather than rehearsing everything now, except to say that, on quality of teaching, history is one of the most highly rated subjects by Ofsted. The uptake of history GCSE has remained good, at a consistent 31 to 32 per cent, despite the wider range of subjects offered at GCSE. History is in a strong state all the way through to GCSE.
Geography is still the fourth most popular option at GCSE. It has, however, been in decline, which has been of concern to the geography community and the Government. That is why we are devoting £2 million over the next two years on a geography action plan which will do a good deal to improve the support for teachers and schools in the teaching of geography and boost the resources available to them.
The noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, referred to the Budget announcement which set ambitious goals for improving science teaching at GCSE and A-level. It set goals to achieve year-on-year increases in the number of young people taking A-levels in physics, chemistry and mathematics, so that by 2014 entries to A-level physics should stand at 35,000, up from the current 24,000; in chemistry, 37,000 up from the current 33,000; and in mathematics, 56,000 up from 46,000. To take that forward, we have pledged that, by 2008, all secondary schools with a science specialism—now more than 200—will offer GCSEs in physics, chemistry and biology as well as the two general science GCSEs.
I accept the noble Baroness’s point that we should seek to move beyond that, and I tell her that we will after 2008. But setting this objective for a group of several hundred secondary schools in addition to those that already offer the three sciences is a big step in the right direction. I hope that that will create a solid group of schools from which we can build out thereafter.
As the noble
Baroness, Lady Sharp, and the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, so rightly
said, everything in this area depends on having sufficient qualified
teachers.
20 July 2006 : Column 1515
The noble Lord, Lord Lucas, raised two issues. There is a good deal to be said for the IGCSE. It is an effective programme of study, and we have asked the QCA to advise us on whether it should be registered to be generally taught in state schools. That advice will come by the end of the month, and we will then consider it extremely seriously. Similarly, we are strong supporters of the right of students to choose to study the international baccalaureate. More than 70 schools and colleges in England now teach it; an increasing number of sixth-form colleges, for example, ensure that it is on offer in institutions with large post-16 provision. More can be done to encourage that.
I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, about the importance of work experience. Unfortunately, there is an issue about funding, and we owe him a reply on that subject. I will see that my honourable friend the Minister for Higher Education replies to him. I know his concerns in respect of Trident, the organisation with which he is associated; If I may, I will deal with them in correspondence.
Lord Lucas: Clearly I will have an opportunity to quiz the Minister in October about what was said to him in July about the IGCSE, but I know that the examining bodies are extremely unhappy about the methodology of the review because it does not look at outcomes or the quality of pupils and is being carried out by people who have no track record. They are also concerned about the speed of the review. They would rather have had a properly set up and properly contemplative review that would produce a reasonable and rational view of whether the IGCSE is up to scratch.
Lord Adonis: I was not aware of those concerns; indeed, I thought that the IGCSE community was pleased that we are conducting a review because before that there had been no question of the IGCSE being licensed in the state system. When the report is presented, I intend to take a keen personal interest, and if there are shortcomings in the methodology, I hope I will be able to address them.
Baroness Buscombe: I want to be brief, but I thank all noble Lords who have supported my amendments and the other amendments in this group. We have had an excellent debate.
20 July 2006 : Column 1516
I understand that tough decisions have to be made on a day-to-day basis and that trade-offs have to be made, but, with all due respect, some of those decisions have been wrong. It was wrong to remove the statutory requirement for foreign languages in our schools. I remember that in 1980—that is rather dating—I was working in America as a lawyer for an international bank. At that time, it was hard to find English employees of that English bank with the Spanish skills to work all over America, particularly in the south. I am glad to hear that more people are now learning Spanish, but we need to think about the future. I am concerned that the Government are focusing on promoting the languages of the EU—which is fine—and are saying that it is not really necessary to promote languages such as Mandarin. The Chancellor of the Exchequer recognises that what happens to our economy over the next 20 or 30 years will be dynamic in terms of what is developing in the Far East. It will be hugely important for this generation of students to be able to compete. Language is part of that. Language is not just about what is on the internet—it is about having communication and getting the business; this country will not get the business unless we can speak the language of other countries.
The nub of all this is life chances for young people. I was state-school educated and I hoped that when I was of the age that I am now, we would not even be having a discussion about state versus independent schools. As long as we do not have some of these tough subjects as core subjects, so that pupils in the state system can achieve alongside those in the independent system, parents will do all they can to put their children into private schools where these subjects are taught, where there is more choice and where there are greater life chances. One of the reasons for that is a little word that means an awful lot: confidence. If you can study these languages and the separate sciences to at least a certain level it gives you confidence to go out into the world and succeed. We will be denying our pupils that opportunity unless we have core curricula, which really means that we will be able to compete.
I ask the Minister to think carefully about the amendments I have put forward. There are obviously concerns about the lack of science teachers, but perhaps what the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, suggested about distance learning should be looked at. We cannot afford to wait, not even one year, for pupils to be denied their entitlement to the three separate sciences. Perhaps the distance learning route could be used pro tem while we speed up getting more teachers to teach particularly physics and chemistry.
What my noble friend said about the whole formulaic learning to pass exams, teaching to the test, is frightening. We must get away from that because even if our pupils are passing tests, that is not preparing them for life on a global basis.
This has been a really
excellent debate. I am hugely grateful to noble Lords who have
supported my amendments. I just add that I am pleased with what the
Minister said about the IGCSE and the International Baccalaureate.
These are seriously important issues that we need to think about
further. I want to think
20 July 2006 : Column 1517
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendments Nos. 193 to 199 not moved.]
Baroness Sharp of Guildford moved Amendment No. 199A:
- “(1A) A pupil who chooses to
follow a course of study falling within subsection (1)(b) is in
addition entitled to choose a course of study in subjects within one or
more of four entitlement areas specified in subsection (2) as may be
reasonably permitted by provision and timetable
constraints.”
The noble Baroness said: We come on to the other half of this debate about the work-based learning and, in particular, about the new specialist diplomas, which will cover the more vocational areas of the curriculum. Amendment No. 199A fits together with Amendment No. 204A in this group. I will speak to them first and then to Amendments Nos. 205B and C and 206A, which again fit together as a group and are a separate although related issue.
Amendments Nos. 199A and 204A relate to the degree to which the new specialist diplomas will enable pupils to mix vocational and academic courses. As framed, under Clause 67 new Section 85A in the Education Act 2002 states very firmly that in addition to the core subjects of English, maths and science, plus the foundation subjects of ICT, physical education and citizenship, a pupil can opt either for various entitlement subjects in the four areas embraced by the arts, humanities, design and technology or a modern foreign language, or for a course of study in an entitlement area specified by the Secretary of State—in other words, one of the new vocational diploma areas that are being developed with the sector skills councils.
Amendment No. 199A suggests that the two should not be exclusive; that, for example, a pupil choosing to take a diploma course in construction should also, timetable permitting, be able to study a modern foreign language or history or geography. Amendment No. 204A, which relates to the new subsection (3) at line 5 on page 51, which is still new Section 85A of the Education Act 2002, eliminates subsection (3) which, as I read it, currently prohibits a pupil studying in more than one of the new diploma areas and substitutes a new subsection which says that where courses of study are compatible, a pupil should be able to take discrete modules in different courses. For example, they should be able to do design and graphics side by side with a construction course, subject to that being timetable-compatible.
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