| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
The crucial question when it comes to fluids is surely making sure that all schools provide water and allow it in the classroom. I do not know where we are on that yet, and I would be grateful if the Minister could update me.
Baroness Howarth of Breckland: I support what the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, said. I am somewhat surprised that the noble Baroness did not talk about a balanced diet. I commend the work of the School Meals Trust, which is working hard to make sure that children in our schools have a balanced diet, and of all those schools that are introducing breakfast clubs. I hope that through these regulations the Government can ensure that that happens right across the board. Although my noble friend the Countess of Mar is not in her seat, I also point out that cheese is pure fat, and one should eat it in moderation. To talk about subsidising cheese for children is difficult.
I suppose that I should declare an interest as a board member of the Food Standards Agency, and say that I am sorry that the noble Baroness has not looked in detail at the traffic light system and availed herself of the information. Quite complex discussions are going on between those who want GDAs and those who want simplified traffic lights to find away through the whole debate. All the consumer organisations are clear that mothers who find it difficult to work out percentages—and I could join them, with some of the difficulties I have in reading some labels—have found it much easier to use the traffic light system.
I hope that the Minister will talk in his reply about balanced diet, about continuing the work that the School Meals Trust is doing to reach that balanced diet, and certainly about continuing the “five a day”—encouraging children to eat more fruit in schools. And I am not very keen on too much milk.
Baroness Buscombe: I shall speak very briefly to a point that I feel relates directly to the amendment on nutrition. Following the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, I agree that milk and cheese may not be the right direction—although I loved school milk and ended up drinking most of everyone else’s; but I think that I was in the minority. My concern is about the Government’s programme Building Schools for the Future. I understand, with some regret, that not all these schools have been built with dining rooms. It is quite difficult to have a balanced diet if the provision is not there. Perhaps the Minister can comment on that and reassure the Committee that I am incorrect in what I have been told.
Moreover, I have also been informed that some who wish to build academies have been told that the Government have changed the rules and that those people cannot now have a say or be in charge of the design and development of those schools, but that that is for the local authority. Some feel that design and their wish to ensure that, for example, dining facilities are available for all schoolchildren are being ignored by local authorities. Perhaps the Minister can also reply on that.
25 July 2006 : Column 1656
Lord Adonis: The noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, is a member of the Food Standards Agency, and I am sorely tempted to leave her to reply to the debate; she has given a partial reply already. We have of course consulted the Food Standards Agency as we have developed the work that we have taken forward with the School Meals Trust—on which we are spending a very large sum to ensure that schools have much better information on best nutritional standards, how they go about improving the quality of school meals, and how the resources available to them have been increased to provide precisely the balanced diet that she recommended. We are spending £220 million over three years on the School Meals Trust. As Members of the Committee will have realised, we are engaged in a programme of work that has had the close co-operation of Jamie Oliver, who has closely at heart all the interests that were set out.
Perhaps I can take the amendments one by one. On Amendment No. 214A, we entirely agree that food standards should apply to academies, and the requirement for academies to meet nutritional standards will be made through amending the funding agreements.
The noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, mentioned academy design. We are not removing the scope for sponsors of academies to play a substantial part in the design. However, we are making it possible for academies to be built and delivered through the Building Schools for the Future programme, which we believe will promote cost-effectiveness and best practice in the delivery of academies. However, that will be in the context of sponsors still playing a role in the design—as indeed do schools within the Building Schools for the Future programme at large. There is not a single template that they have to observe.
Amendment No. 214B deals with the provision of school milk. The decision on whether to provide school milk rests with local authorities and schools. Where milk is provided, schools and local authorities can, if they choose, reclaim part of the cost of that milk from the EU school milk subsidy scheme.
The noble Baroness mentioned the reduced subsidy levels available under the scheme after January 2001. Ministers from my department, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and the Department of Health agreed jointly to meet the costs of the annual £1.5 million shortfall that these EU changes would create. This decision was taken to avoid any increase in the cost of milk to local authorities, and thereby lessen the risk of reduced provision. We believe that local authorities and schools are best placed to decide whether their pupils should be offered milk and whether to claim any subsidy on that milk. We do not wish to remove that discretion. However, the new school food standards will specify milk as one of the few drinks that local authorities and schools will be permitted to provide, and more schools may voluntarily choose to offer milk to their pupils in consequence.
The noble Lord, Lord Lucas, is quite right about the importance of breakfast clubs, which we highlight too, and the provision of breakfasts, which is now increasingly taking place in schools. Of course, the
25 July 2006 : Column 1657
I have partially covered Amendment No. 214C. The amendment would remove the power that would allow regulations to ban the provision of certain foods and drinks. We regard this as an important power as it gives us the flexibility we need to keep pace with the findings of new children’s dietary research, which might indicate that a revision of our nutritional standards would benefit specific groups of children.
Finally, on Amendment No. 214D, I am glad to say that regulations will relax the standards to exempt schools from the requirement to follow the standards for food and drink provided at occasional fund-raising events. This can be done as an exception under new section 114A(1).
Baroness Buscombe: Will the Minister reassure me, if not now by letter, that all new schools that are being built as part of the programme will have adequate dining facilities?
Lord Adonis: I was not aware that there was not a requirement for dining facilities, unless those facilities are, as it were, multi-use facilities which can provide for dining in the context of other provision. The issue that has been raised with us in the past, including in this House, concerns kitchens. The Building Schools for the Future guidance does not have an absolute requirement for kitchens because in some cases—in small primary schools and so on—it may be more cost-effective for food to be provided without a kitchen. But schools and local authorities have to consider kitchens in each case. I will write to the noble Baroness with chapter and verse on that.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: I am grateful to the Minister for his response. I am very pleased that academies and city technology colleges will be included in these food standard regulations. It is appropriate that they should do so. I take on board the point about school milk. I point to its fat content but, as I stressed, we are not suggesting that it should be the full cream school milk that we used to get, but skimmed or semi-skimmed milk where the fat content is much lower. The calcium content is important. It is a good drink and I am glad that it is on the list of products that Ministers are recommended. I hope that, since it is one of the drinks that can be provided,
25 July 2006 : Column 1658
Nevertheless, I accept that new standards are being developed and that is sensible. The Minister is right—I have been amazed at the amount of material that I have been able to access in the past couple of days, but which, I confess, I have not been fully able to digest. In particular, I welcome the developmentof breakfast clubs and, in the extended school environment, after-school clubs where tea is provided. One is conscious that, too frequently, children are just provided with a pound and told to go down to the shops, where they buy crisps and chocolate. That does not constitute a balanced diet, and a balanced diet is extremely important.
I am grateful for the reassurances that the Minister has given. I shall read carefully what he said. Between now and when we return in October, I shall study the regulations further. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendments Nos. 214B to 214D not moved.]
Clause 81 [Responsibility of governing body for discipline]:
12.15 pm
Lord Lucas moved Amendment No. 215.
( ) in making a behaviour audit, shall have regard to any guidance issued by the Secretary of State,
( ) shall make the results of a behaviour audit available to all teaching staff and to any inspector (who shall report on it), but need not make them available to parents,”
The noble Lord said: A behaviour audit was oneof the best ideas to come out of the Government’svery good review of school discipline, but I was disappointed not to find such an audit in the Bill. It is all very well running school discipline as if everything is the children’s fault, whereby rules have been issued, the children have misbehaved and when they have misbehaved a sufficient number of times they are excluded. But that is not really the root of many school discipline problems. There is a multiplicity of causes, and the school, in trying to improve discipline, should focus on all of them.
We have been talking about breakfast clubs. Kids who come to school without having been fed will be extremely difficult to discipline. Kids who consume a lot of sugar during a school day will be difficult to discipline. Teachers who are not up to the job of controlling a class will be a major cause of indiscipline. There are many other ways in which a
25 July 2006 : Column 1659
Some children will always cause difficulty, but that “some” could be quite a low number. When Haberdashers took over Knights Academy, two pupils were eventually excluded. But when there was the big turn-around at the Ridings school in Yorkshire, I remember that some 50 pupils were excluded. I do not believe that that was due to a difference in the pupils, but to a difference in how such matters were handled. A school that really understands the roots of indiscipline, how to deal with it, and how to address pupil dissatisfactionand the multifarious causes brought out in a well conducted behaviour audit, will have much less of a problem with exclusion. We would then have a much better schooling system.
I was disappointed that the excellent idea of behaviour audits, produced by the Government’s own initiative, had not been taken up. This amendment is an attempt to make the Government think again on this matter. I beg to move.
Baroness Thornton: I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 216 and 219 in this group, standing in my name and those of other noble Lords. I start by thanking SEC, the consortium of voluntary organisations, which is concerned with children with SEN and disabilities. It has provided some of us with excellent briefings. I also declare as an interest the fact that I work with ICAN, the charity that deals with children who have communication disabilities.
These amendments would ensure that when the governing body of a school delegates responsibility for a school’s behaviour policy, it has to assure itself that those to whom it delegates that responsibility have training on SEN and disability legislation.
About 760,000 children in primary schools have SEN. Of those, 67,000 have a statement and therefore just under 700,000 do not. About 550,000 pupils in secondary schools have SEN. Of those, about 76,500 have a statement and therefore just under 475,000 do not. There are approximately 772,000 disabled children under the age of 16. Some disabled children may not have SEN—for example, children with a medical condition—and there may be some children whose SEN does not amount to a disability.
These amendments are based on, among other things, the Audit Commission report of 2002, Special Educational Needs: a mainstream issue, which was very clear about the over-representation of pupils with SEN in exclusions. We should also consider the punishments that led to those exclusions, and I wish to say a word about my personal experience in that regard in a moment.
The analysis of the data for the report provided by 22 LEAs suggested that children with SEN, including those without statements, account for the vast majority of permanent exclusions—almost nine out of 10 from primary schools and six out of 10 from secondary schools. Behind those figures is a significant number of further exclusions. Many pupils are informally or unofficially excluded from school,
25 July 2006 : Column 1660
Exclusions disproportionately affect pupils whose special educational needs impact on their behaviour. However, any learning need, if unrecognised or unmet, can lead to behavioural difficulties which, if not properly managed, may lead to exclusion. I am particularly concerned that the Government’s drive for better discipline in schools, with which I agree, means that some children with special needs are being subjected to punishment regimes which may not be appropriate.
A young man of my close acquaintance who has special needs and behavioural challenges found himself at the start of his secondary education, at the age of 11, in a kind of spiral of punishment. He was subject to a regime which involved what was called “internal exclusion” within the school. He was put into a cubicle within a room with no natural light for a whole day with a teacher or someone in attendance. There was no window and therefore no view outside. He was only allowed to the toilet accompanied, and he had to remain in silence. He was expected to get on with his work under those conditions. This was a pupil who needed support to learn. He was brought a sandwich and a drink at lunchtime but was not allowed outside to join his fellow pupils. He was subject to that day after day. Not surprisingly, his behaviour deteriorated. He was traumatised and, on one occasion, he came out of this regime having written graffiti on himself with a pen from his wrist to his shoulder. It was a form of self-mutilation and a sign of how he reacted to his treatment. I am very pleased to say that this young man has been moved from that school to one which is working very hard to keep him in school and is meeting his learning needs.
I looked at the governors’ code of practice and disciplinary code for that school, as I thought that the young man’s punishment was inappropriate and must have contravened his human rights. However, the school governors, led by the head teacher, were permitted to act in that way. The punishment was completely inappropriate for such a child, and hewas not alone; a cohort of young men in the school was subjected to that regime. It was not working; it was counter-productive. The school was on its way to producing a group of 13, 14 and 15 year-olds who are now permanently excluded from school and are probably wreaking mayhem in the neighbourhood around it.
The amendments would ensure that those drawing up the guidelines and rules are qualified to do so and understand the needs of children with disabilities who have special educational needs. I understand that this part of the Bill is based on the Steer report. While many of the organisations to which I have referred welcome many aspects of that report, particularly the emphasis on teaching and learning, it has limitations. I should like to hear my noble friend’s comments on that. It explicitly sets aside the consideration of pupils with special educational needs—the Committeedid not consider disabled pupils. It emphasises throughout the need for a consistent behaviour policy.
25 July 2006 : Column 1661
We need reassurance from the Government that the needs of these children will be taken into account, and that more robust safeguards will be written into the Bill. The guidelines that flow from it must take account of the needs of children with disabilities and special educational needs.
Lord Rix: I support Amendments Nos. 216 and 219, to which my name is attached. The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, has shot my fox because she said everything that I had intended to say, so there is no need for repetition, especially as we are trying to get through Committee stage today. I add my support to the amendments and hope that the Government will either accept them or make the necessary alternatives available in the Bill.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 216A, 218, 218A, 220 and 222ZA in this grouping, all of which are in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Walmsley. I also support the three amendments that have been spoken to so far.
Amendments Nos. 216A, 218 and 218A would all put into practice some of the more positive aspects of the Steer report. Amendment No. 216A proposes that, as recommended in the Steer report, every school should appoint a pupil-parent support worker—the amendment quotes directly from the Steer report—
- “as part of the support staff of the school to work with the teachers to ensure appropriate delivery of pupil and parent support measures”.
Aligned with that are Amendments Nos. 218 and 218A, spelling out some of the parent and pupil support measures that might be appropriate. Amendment No. 218 refers to the list included in Clause 82(1), and rather than just dictating that pupils should show respect, it asks for,
I shall come back to that amendment in a moment.
Amendment No. 218A asks that those pupils who need help with managing behaviour and relationships should be given support and guidance. We have in mind the sort of counselling advice offered by the charity Place2Be, which a number of noble Lords know about and have perhaps visited. It operates in some 120 primary schools in deprived areas, dealing with children referred by the staff because their behaviour is truly difficult to manage and they are underperforming. Often helping the pupils means helping the parents. The charity always takes parents into its confidence and has their permission before working with children.
Children also self-refer. Once a counsellor is established in a school, and has his or her own room, they hold open sessions where children can drop in to discuss any issues worrying them, whether it is the death of a favourite cat or issues of abuse, which arise on occasions. The counsellor’s room becomes for children the place to be if they have a worry. It is where they go to talk about it. The counsellor helps them to unravel some of the complicated bits of the unstable lives that some children live. For many of
25 July 2006 : Column 1662
12.30 pm
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |