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The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I am pleased to have an opportunity to return once again to this debate. I was interested to hear the words of the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, on this topic on Report and I reserved my right to take those new perspectives into account in order to return with a solution at Third Reading.
Allegations of abuse are matters that deserve sensitive treatment. Children's well-being is the most precious thing to any parent and that is why I am so thankful that we have a workforce of teachers and school staff who seek to improve not only their well-being but also their chances in life. That is why I persist in this matter. Teachers and school staff give their lives to educating our children and it is our duty to ensure that they get a fair deal. It is not a fair deal when, out of 2,210 accusations of physical or sexual abuse in the past 15 years, fewer than 4 per cent—88—led to convictions, or when most of the 10 per cent who face charges result in acquittals. It is also not a fair deal when, in one year, 100 members of NASUWT were exposed to accusations only for it to be confirmed that, after all, there was no case to answer.
Anonymity appears in a wide variety of legislation. Its most well known uses are 4 per cent for victims of rape and for children under the age of 18 involved in investigations. Yet it also appears in various guises in the Merchant Shipping (Liner Conferences) Act 1982 and in giving anonymity to alleged terrorists under control orders in the Prevention of Terrorism Act last year. It is amazing that, under Section 6 of that Act, suspected terrorists who are subject to control orders have a right to anonymity but teachers do not. The use of anonymity for alleged terrorists is clear evidence that anonymity is necessary in certain cases. The Government were so aware of the detrimental effects on trial of overexposure in the media that suspected terrorists are given identity protection. I think most of us would agree that child abuse and terrorism are two of the greatest evils in our society and being accused of one would be as damaging as being accused of the other. While the Minister expresses his concerns that anonymity has no place in legislation, I direct him to the strong precedent in the statute books.
On this issue, as on others that we have debated tonight, as far as possible we have sought to achieve consensus. This new amendment takes into account
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A further significant change in the amendment is the process for exemptions from anonymity. After legal consultation, it has been possible to alter the amendment. Under the provisions of the amendment, to achieve an exemption, a chief constable could apply to a magistrates' court to waive anonymity where it would be expedient to the carrying out of a criminal investigation or in the interests of security. That would be done in much the same way as an application for a search warrant. That takes the exemption procedure out of the hands of the Secretary of State and reroutes it through a tried and tested system. Just as a search warrant allows the investigation of premises, so a warrant to waive anonymity allows the public investigation of a person's identity.
I understand the concerns of noble Lords that providing anonymity for teachers and school staff could establish a two-tier system, yet I resist that objection on three counts. First, the point that protection from media exposure which could wreck careers and lives would not extend to one group of people does not constitute a principled objection that it should be provided to another group. Secondly, while we would be very interested to consider providing anonymity for carers and others who face malicious and vexatious accusations, such an amendment would be outside the scope of the Bill. Our business here this evening is education and ensuring the quality of life within the education system as a teacher or member of school staff. Perhaps a future social care Bill will provide an opportunity for provision for social workers.
Thirdly, accusation is an easy route to manipulation. Let us not forget that false allegations are made not just by children but by other adults. Indeed, I know personally of such a case it was horrendous. We must not forget also that often these cases arise due to misunderstood circumstances where the comment of a pupil has aroused the suspicion of an adult and to be on the safe side an allegation is made. It is right that children retain anonymity. That is something I would defend to the last. However, we believe that the amendment provides a necessary
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These cases are so sensitive. They stand to affect the life of a child and that child’s family, but also the lives of schools, staff and their families in turn. I do not for one minute suggest that we should not listen to accusations and treat every single one with 100 per cent seriousness, but I suggest that there is another side to the story, that instead of the dramatic sensationalist coverage and exposure of allegations of abuse, those cases should be treated with care, sincerity and privacy. We are pleased that there is guidance there and like the Government hope for the success of the guidance in reducing vexatious or malicious allegations. However—and this is important—our amendment does not force the Government to take action now. It is an enabling power that would give the Government the opportunity to give teachers the right to anonymity should the guidance prove insufficient. We see it as a safeguard. I think that that is a sensible amendment and I hope that noble Lords will support it. I beg to move.
Baroness Williams of Crosby: My Lords, I was involved in the creation of a group called FACT—Falsely Accused Carers and Teachers—not long after the major investigations that took place, first, in north Wales over children’s authorities and allegations of abuse of children in those authorities and, secondly, in the major Merseyside study of schools and of children’s homes shortly afterwards. Those were extensive inquiries and many dozens of people were involved in allegations that were made about them in one way or another. Undoubtedly some of those allegations held up.
The fact that the police chose a method effectively seeking to obtain evidence from people who attended those care homes or those schools—which was known in the trade as cruising for crime—led to a number of people coming forward from those institutions in order to make allegations, not discouraged by the fact that it was widely known that there was a possibility of substantial compensation being paid to someone who had suffered from abuse. In other words, there was a true motivation for some fairly unsavoury characters coming forward to make such allegations. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, that we are talking not only about the wrecking of the lives of certain teachers who turn out to be completely innocent but also about the shadow that is cast by the very fact that they are named even though they may be later found to be innocent, shadows that to my certain knowledge—I can give a number of cases about which I happen to know first hand from the association—led to people being unable to find appointments and stay in their positions, even though it turned out that there were absolutely no grounds for the allegations made against them.
I have not followed in detail what the legal difficulties may be here. I am sure that there are some, there are almost always legal difficulties about virtually any amendment that anyone moves, but I
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Lord Sutherland of Houndwood: My Lords, for the reasons that I gave at Report, which have been so cogently underlined by the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, I continue to support the amendment in its new and, I believe, improved form.
Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, I also support the amendment. It is now drafted in a way that should be acceptable to the Minister. It is the time that these cases take and the destruction that can so often result to people's lives that really concerns me—especially when they are teachers, but also when they are other members of the school. So I hope that the Minister will be able to accept the concept. If he is right and the guidance is satisfactory, there will be no need for any further action, but the provision could be there in the background as a safeguard.
Lord Dearing: My Lords, I make a two sentence support of the amendment. We speak often in this House about the rights of the child. We should also be cognisant of the rights of the teacher.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, the words of my noble friend Lady Williams of Crosby show to the House how warmly we support the objective of the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, and how much we pay tribute to her for the tenacious way in which she has addressed the matter and how she has tried to address the various concerns expressed in your Lordships' House. In particular, I am grateful to her for how she has addressed some of the concerns that I have expressed.
We owe the noble Baroness a great debt of gratitude because the way in which she has raised this issue to the public eye has put a great deal of pressure on the media—those who have any tendency to be irresponsible. We all agree that none of us wants the child’s rights to be counterbalanced with the right of an innocent person not to be vilified in the media. It is the responsibility of any of us, if we see the media being irresponsible in how they address such matters, to write to them or to speak on the media in abhorrence of such behaviour—or to withdraw our support from newspapers. Such behaviour is simply not on.
However, the noble Baroness has not addressed just one of our concerns in tabling the amendment. That is the fact that we feel that now is not the moment to put the provision on the statute book. We have a new set of measures introduced by Jim Knight; we have some new allegations management officers put in place; we have new guidance. I would be right behind the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, if, in a
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Baroness Buscombe: My Lords, before the noble Baroness sits down, I urge her to appreciate that this is an enabling provision. If all the guidance that the Government produce works, the provision will not need to be brought into play. It is simply a back-stop, a safeguard, so that if, in a year's time, it is shown that what the Government have put in place has not worked, we can turn to the provision for which I am asking tonight, because it will be there in primary legislation.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, if that was an intervention, perhaps I can ask the Minister whether he will tell us how long he will give the measures before they are evaluated. What will he do if there is evidence that they are not working? Will the Government come back at that point with more serious measures?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, I appreciate the concerns that have given rise to the amendment. There have been discussions on the issue all the way through the progress of the Bill, both in another place and in your Lordships' House, including a meeting that my honourable friend Jim Knight held with the noble Baronesses, Lady Buscombe and Lady Walmsley, along with Members of another place and representatives from the NSPCC and the NASUWT, to discuss the issue further.
As I say, we appreciate the concerns to protect teachers and other members of school staff from the damaging effects of allegations and the work that the noble Baroness has done to develop and refine this amendment during the course of the Bill. But we must also keep in mind the vital importance of safeguarding children from abuse wherever they are, and ensuring that children are encouraged to speak out about abuse they have suffered. We want all children to be confident in the knowledge that their concerns will be taken seriously and responded to. It is getting the balance right which is uppermost on our minds in this very delicate area.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, said, we have taken significant steps to meet concerns in this area. We issued new guidance on allegations in educational settings only last November. The guidance was issued under Section 175 of the Education Act 2002, which means that schools have to have regard to it when making arrangements to safeguard and to promote the welfare of children. The guidance states that every effort should be made to maintain confidentiality and guard against unwanted publicity while an allegation is being investigated, unless and until a person is charged with an offence. It also makes clear that in exceptional circumstances, the police may need to disclose the identity of a person under investigation.
We also issued further overarching guidance on allegations against anyone working with children in any setting in the revised version of Working Together
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Furthermore, in April we also put in place a network of allegation management advisers based in government offices. They are working with the new local safeguarding children boards and their members to ensure that effective arrangements are in place for dealing with allegations of abuse against people who work with children, implementing the new guidance on allegations against teachers and the guidance I just mentioned, Working Together to Safeguard Children.
Part of the allegation management advisers’ work is to help organisations avoid allegations arising in the first place through safe recruitment processes and through advice on staff behaviour when working with children. The allegation management advisers are also helping local safeguarding children boards and organisations to develop and implement effective arrangements for collecting data on allegations.
All these measures I have set out have recently been put in place. We believe that they will help to achieve the right balance between protecting teachers and others from the damaging effect of false or unfounded allegations while, on the other hand, safeguarding children. Our strong preference is not to legislate on this matter but to focus our energies on making sure that these new arrangements are working well.
In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, I can tell the House that we have undertaken to review the impact of the guidance for the education sector in 2007 with the involvement of all stakeholders, and to reconsider in the light of that review what further measures may be necessary, which may include further measures in respect of protecting the anonymity of teachers. But although we have worked through the many options in this area, I do not have an option I can bring to the House and I do not believe it would be appropriate for me to recommend the House to legislate for a general enabling power when the Government cannot tell the House how they would propose to implement it.
We have, however, undertaken to consult further next year and my officials will be discussing the timetable for this further work with the teachers’ associations, including the NASUWT which has raised the most consistent concerns in this area. The NASUWT has said today that it supports our approach, that it wishes to continue to be involved in
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I hope that on the basis of the assurances I have been able to give, the noble Baroness will not feel it necessary to press this amendment.
Baroness Buscombe: My Lords, I find the Minister’s response incredibly depressing. As I have said twice this evening, this enabling power would give the Government the opportunity to give teachers the right to anonymity should the guidance prove insufficient. It is merely a safeguard, but it would be there for teachers if only the Minister would accept it tonight. I find it incredible that it is deemed okay for terrorists to have anonymity but not for teachers. The Minister said that we would have to wait for the results of the consultation next year, but he consulted on faith schools in one week.
I accept that the noble Lord is working towards having allegations dealt with as quickly as possible, but it takes no time at all to ruin a person’s life once information gets into the hands of the newspapers. And will the newspapers take any notice of the guidance? Of course they won’t.
The Minister said that the police may need to waive the right to anonymity. We have worked hard at this amendment to allow for that possibility, so that in certain circumstances the police can waive the right to anonymity. I feel extremely strongly about this. It is right that we should stand up for teachers; they matter an awful lot more than the terrorists in this country. I wish to test the opinion of the House.
11.16 pm
On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 14) shall be agreed to?
Their Lordships divided: Contents, 28; Not-Contents, 76.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Broers, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Buscombe, B.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
De Mauley, L.
Dearing, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles, V.
Fookes, B.
Geddes, L.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Bolton, B. [Teller]
Moser, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
O'Cathain, B. [Teller]
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Selborne, E.
Shephard of Northwold, B.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Taylor of Holbeach, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Acton, L.
Adams of Craigielea, B.
Adonis, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. [Lord President.]
Andrews, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Boyd of Duncansby, L.
Brennan, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
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Carter of Coles, L.
Chandos, V.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Crawley, B.
Davidson of Glen Clova, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Desai, L.
Drayson, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ford, B.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Giddens, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haworth, L.
Henig, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Jones, L.
Jones of Whitchurch, B.
Judd, L.
Lee of Trafford, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Patel, L.
Quin, B.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sewel, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Soley, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Walmsley, B.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.
Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.
11.26 pm
Clause 92 [Power of members of staff to use force]:
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendment No. 15:
“( ) The Secretary of State shall issue, and may from time to time revise, statutory guidance containing guidelines setting out aims, objectives and other matters, and such practical guidance as he thinks appropriate, in respect of the discharge by persons to whom this section applies of their functions under this section.”
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