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The noble Lord, Lord Howarth, made the important point that some trustees should be appointed if they have entrepreneurial skills. It could be argued that the museum world is too passive. It waits for things to happen rather than making them happen, and it should be more entrepreneurial. The noble Viscount, Lord Astor, too, made an important point about how philanthropists should be encouraged to move into this world, particularly when one compares the situation and the atmosphere in the UK with what happens in America. Such an important change in the direction that museums and galleries take would be of benefit and would help to alleviate some of the problems about which we are talking.

Creating the conditions goes beyond this. The Treasury has created a number of tax reliefs over the years—I urge the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, not to say that he knows all this; he may do, but there is a sting in the tail—that help private owners to give, and public institutions to receive, important cultural items. There is, for example, a conditional exemption, which allows estates to defer the settlement of inheritance tax bills in exchange for public access to

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fine works—douceurs, or sweeteners if you prefer, that make private treaty sales of works of art to public institutions more tax effective. Again, I repeat that these opportunities are there, but they are not being exploited to the full. It weakens any argument for further tax concessions and further help from the Treasury if things that are already in place are simply not used.

Lord Inglewood: If experience elsewhere in Europe and around the globe suggests that the detail of the existing tax arrangements are not the most efficacious way of achieving the shared wishes of everyone in this debate, does it not follow that it is right to try to tailor the detail of the mechanisms to deliver what we all want? If they are not working properly now, that may be because they have not been drawn up in the right way.

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: I would look at this from the other end of the telescope. I would not say that it has not been drawn up in the right way. I am now straying well away from my brief, but I would argue that the museums and galleries have not spoken with one voice, so they have not been an efficient or effective pressure group. I was about to say that there should be one voice that says, “Here is a series of proposals. Will you please react to them?”. At the moment, there are a number of organisations all doing valuable work but all presenting a very diffuse image. That is not a good thing.

The noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, talked about the UK system of export licences, which gives UK institutions a second chance to match the price paid for the very best items before they go overseas. I pay tribute to the noble Lord as chairman of the reviewing committee. I am told that there is ample evidence in the department’s files that the committee has been complaining about insufficient funds to do its work ever since it was founded in 1952. We could argue about whether the bottle is half full or half empty, but I am pleased to say that, last year, more than 50 per cent of the items on which the Government placed a temporary export bar were subsequently saved for the nation. That is on top of the literally hundreds of items that have been saved since the committee was set up in 1952.

I shall now discuss the third part of Jennie Lee’s prescription—silence. I am not sure whether this has ever been part of the approach of this Government or any other Government. I should, however, like to finish with a further word on acquisitions. The problem, which I have already touched on, is in part created by the fact that the international art market is a law unto itself. Indeed, it could be said that it is in some, but happily not all, respects second only to the world of international football—an analogy made by the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood. It is extraordinary that Chelsea, which is top of the league—

Noble Lords: Second!

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: Extraordinarily, it declared a loss of £140 million pounds last year. There is irrationality about this world, some of which perhaps applies to the art world, too. Fashion, questions of attribution and provenance, and

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collectors’ choices all play their part. The way through—I have touched on this—is to begin by making better use of existing tax regimes and mechanisms. Take tax relief, for example. As I have already said, several good concessions are already in place to encourage private and corporate giving, but take-up has not been as wide as we might have expected. The Government are considering ways of addressing this, and I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, for securing this debate today and to all noble Lords for airing these issues once again. The most interesting thing about the debate is that almost everything that has been said has been directed not at me but at the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

The noble Lord, Lord Howarth, has made several very interesting points that will definitely set us thinking. Matters of taxation are, of course, for my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but I welcome the noble Lord’s helpful suggestions for a number of imaginative ways to increase the resources available to allow museums and galleries to add to their collections. These will certainly be worth exploring further, although I fear that creating a new paramount list would count as unreasonable interference in the art market and in the fundamental right of owners to the free enjoyment of their property, including the right to sell it at the market price. I do not know whether noble Lords are aware of this, but France recently tried to buy a van Gogh from a private collector, arguing that the price reflected France’s inalienability. The owner took France to the European Court of Human Rights; France lost and had to pay four times the price that was originally asked for the picture.

Lord Howarth of Newport: The Minister need not have the fear that he has just expressed. I see no difference in principle between this and the procedures followed by the reviewing committee. In 1922, the Treasury committed itself in the future to providing funds at a reasonable valuation that was made at the time. It did not undertake to chase the art market forever upwards, but it did undertake to support the National Gallery to pay up to what was considered to be a fair valuation at that moment in the history of the art market. It worked; the National Gallery subsequently secured four out of the seven on the original list. I do not think there was any question

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of an infringement of property rights, as they were understood in those days or, indeed, as they are understood now.

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: Again, my point relates to huge inflation in the art market. An arrangement might be made with someone in, say, 1920, when there was very little inflation in price over 10, 15 or 20 years. However, I do not think that an owner would be very happy if an arrangement was made to pay £10 million for art that was worth £150 million 20 years later. As I have said, however, we will carefully consider all the ideas that have been expressed today.

It has been a fascinating debate. Many valuable points have been made, and they will be considered, as I have said. I stress again that I have been involved in many aspects of the arts over the years, and the ones that have really worked are where a pressure group or a lobby speaks with one voice. The problem is analysed, and a straightforward solution is proposed that can then be considered.

Lord Lee of Trafford: The noble Lord talks about an industry coming together. The tourism industry has come together, has formed the Tourism Alliance and is speaking with one voice. There is no evidence that it has increased government expenditure or support for the tourist industry.

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: First, I am not talking about an industry: I am talking about museums and galleries where everyone acknowledges the importance to culture, education and all other contributions that they make. Here is a Government who have invested massively in the arts in the past 10 years. I would hope—this view is shared by the noble Lord, Lord Smith, and others—that the Treasury will respond to some of the arguments that we have heard today. In conclusion, we have not heard a word of criticism about our museums and galleries. There is a general view that they are run by brilliant directors and have terrific dedicated staff. I should like to finish by paying tribute to those people who are giving us a better museum and gallery service than anywhere else in the world.

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