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Amendments Nos. 156 and 250 create a new clause and new schedule specifying powers to transfer individuals from existing barred lists to the new barred lists relating to children and vulnerable adults. These amendments add detail to the provisions that were already in the Bill. Paragraph (1) of the new schedule allows the Secretary of State to require the IBB to advise him on decisions under current schemes to ensure a smooth transition. Paragraphs (2) and (3) relate to children and vulnerable adults respectively, enabling the Secretary of State to make an order setting out the procedures to be followed for transition.

The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee has highlighted a procedural uncertainty in relation to the power to “prescribe” in Amendment No. 250; Amendment No. 250A resolves this uncertainty. Amendment No. 250 enables the Secretary of State to prescribe the procedure to be followed by the General Teaching Council for England when considering an application to be eligible to be registered as a teacher from someone who is ineligible for GTC registration due to having been on List 99 because of professional misconduct and who is not included in the children’s barred list. The intention was that the amendment should make similar provision to enable Welsh

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Ministers to prescribe through regulations procedure in relation to the General Teaching Council for Wales.

Amendment No. 250A clarifies the procedural matters raised by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, particularly in relation to the Welsh Ministers’ power, supplementing the general provisions in relation to subordinate legislation in Clauses 60, 61 and 64. It also puts beyond doubt that the regulations will be subject to the negative resolution procedure.

Amendment No. 199 ensures that a court will inform an offender that, as a consequence of conviction for specified offences, they will shortly be barred automatically by the IBB. That provides clarity at the earliest possible moment for the individual in question.

Finally, Amendment No. 170 gives the IBB a power to make ex gratia compensation payments to any individual adversely affected by IBB maladministration.

Moved, That the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 156.— (Lord Adonis.)

Baroness Buscombe: My Lords, I shall comment on two amendments. It seems that Amendment No. 195 on foreign nationals goes some way to allowing for overseas workers to be included on the children and adult’s barred list if they are deemed to be on a corresponding list. Will a record be kept of the dates on which monitored overseas workers arrived in the UK? Can the Minister inform the House whether or not this will constitute a full check on workers from overseas applying to work, paid or unpaid, in regulated activities? I cannot help but feel that Ministers in this and another place could have done more in response to the amendments of my honourable friend in another place, the Member for Basingstoke, and comments and concerns that we raised in your Lordships’ House, which would have implemented some serious provisions for overseas workers.

Amendment No. 199 relates to a defence for barred individuals who have not understood the legislation. I am pleased that the courts will have to inform a person when he has been included on a barred list. The Minister in another place had clearly read through the recommendations, made by noble Lords on these Benches, that there needs to be good communication with those who have been barred in order to prevent attempts to work in inappropriate roles, on the basis that not all decisions will be perfect. It is important that individuals are made aware of effective charges brought against them. However, the Minister in another place has already indicated that there is a possibility for the remit of the Bill to extend. Parmjit Dhanda said that:

Amendment No. 159, among others, will allow the Secretary of State to enforce the extension of that remit. Yet Clause 7(3) clearly illustrates potential systemic failures, where an individual will be able to

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cite misunderstandings of legislation as a defence. My honourable friend in another place, Maria Miller, has highlighted the problem. Legislation that allows for its own complexity as a defence rather hoists itself with its own petard. I should be grateful for some reassurance from the Minister on the matter.

Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, I absolutely agree with the later comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe. This is a very complex Bill and it is important that everybody understands it as well as possible, particularly those who are subject to its measures.

We welcome Amendments Nos. 196 and 197, which make it clear that no one under 18 will be barred from working with children or vulnerable adults without the right to make representation. Children and young people who commit offences, particularly of a sexual nature, need to have their risks assessed in a different way from adults. I pay tribute to my honourable friend, the Member for Mid Dorset and Poole North, Annette Brooke MP, for her relentless pursuit of this issue.

We know that as many as 16 per cent of children may have been abused. They often go on to abuse in their turn, thus perpetuating a terrible cycle of abuse. Research shows that targeted interventions can be highly effective in reducing risk, even for those children and young people who are at higher risk of continuing harmful behaviours. We know that juveniles commit about a quarter of all sexual offences and that there is clear evidence that many of them have suffered abuse or trauma themselves. Those who go along the criminal justice route are unlikely to have their needs adequately assessed, let alone addressed and treated. I therefore hope that the addition of representation in this legislation will mean that children who display sexually harmful behaviour will have their situations addressed on a case-by-case basis and have the appropriate services provided.

I thank the Minister for Amendments Nos. 173 to 177 and 181 to 186, which align the treatment of pornography with barring people from working with children and vulnerable adults, in response to inconsistencies to which I drew attention when the Bill went through your Lordships’ House.

I also welcome Amendments Nos. 192, 193 and 195, which allow the IBB in the future to automatically bar someone who is included on a specified barred list from another country. The issue of foreign workers exercised us all in the light of the fact that currently there are no equivalent foreign barred lists, and provision for screening is very patchy. However, we are now establishing a piece of legislation which we all hope will work very well. I ask the Minister, if he is in consultation with his counterparts in other countries—in particular our partners in Europe and especially the new accession countries—to share the experiences which the Government will gain from the operation of this Bill. I am sure that we would like to help other countries to get up to our standard, should the Bill turn out to work as well in practice as we all hope it will, since it

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will in the end also help us when their nationals come to work here with our children and vulnerable adults.

Finally, on Amendment No. 199, which is on the duty of the court to inform somebody that he is barred, will the Minister confirm that guidance will specify that the court and the IBB—whoever is responsible for telling a person from what he is barred—also has a duty to ensure that the information has been received and is not lying unopened on some doormat at an address at which the person has not lived for years? I am still receiving mail for people who have not lived at my London address for the past six years. Can he give me that assurance?

Lord Adonis: My Lords, on that latter point I speak from deep memory from our consideration of this precise issue last time, so I may need to follow this up with a letter to the noble Baroness. As I recall it, all such notifications are sent by appropriate recorded delivery, for which a signature is required. Therefore, although we cannot absolutely guarantee that documentation will be taken in, this gives reasonable assurance that the document will be properly received or returned to sender. If there has been any update on that position in the last few months, I will let the noble Baroness know. It is probably deeply dangerous for me to speak from memory in giving her a direct response to that.

On foreign offences and inclusion on foreign barred lists, a point also raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, I should stress that the current barring schemes—POCA, POVA and List 99—are based on employer referrals and can take account of any information that they receive, including foreign offences, if notified by the UK police of allegations of behaviour abroad. I am advised that there has been a case where an English employer has referred an individual to the POCA scheme as a result of allegations of behaviour when abroad while working for the employer and that that has resulted in a bar.

We envisage the provisions for specifying foreign barred lists as prescribed criteria under the new scheme as taking account of future developments in other countries. We are aware of the operation of barred lists in Australia, New Zealand, the United States and Canada. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, referred to our fellow European states and the new accession countries. She asked whether we will be in communication with them. We will certainly continue to be in communication with them, whether for the purposes that she specified—that they might have things to learn from us—or for the purposes of us being able better to secure information from them about the history of individuals as they present themselves to work with employers in the United Kingdom. I can give those assurances and I will cover any other matters in correspondence.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Lord Adonis: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 157 to 165.

Moved accordingly and, on Question, Motion agreed to.



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Lord Adonis: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 166. The amendment removes the Lords privilege amendment.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

Lord Adonis: I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 167 to 236.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

Default position(a) he obtains relevant information relating to B in pursuance of an application under section (Provision of vetting information), or(b) he obtains a copy of an enhanced criminal record certificate relating to B issued in relation to the regulated activity provider.(a) in relation to regulated activity relating to children, relevant information relating to children (within the meaning of section (Meaning of relevant information in section (Provision of vetting information));(b)in relation to regulated activity relating to vulnerable adults, relevant information relating to vulnerable adults (within the meaning of section (Meaning of relevant information in section (provision of vetting information)).(a) an enhanced criminal record certificate relating to B is issued during the prescribed period,(b) the application for the certificate is countersigned on behalf of the regulated activity provider by a registered person (within the meaning of Part 5 of the Police Act 1997), and (c) the regulated activity provider obtains from the registered person the information mentioned in sub-paragraph (2) derived from the certificate.(a) whether B is subject to monitoring, and(b) whether the Independent Barring Board is considering whether to include B in a barred list in pursuance of paragraph 3 or 5 or (as the case may be) 8 or 10 of Schedule 2.(a) a regulated activity provider permits B to engage in an activity that is regulated activity,(b) B engages in the activity with the permission of that and another regulated activity provider (C), and(c) the permission mentioned in paragraph (a) does not have continuous effect for a period exceeding the prescribed period.(a) that C is appropriately registered in relation to B,(b) that C has no reason to believe that B is barred from the activity, and

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(c) that C has no reason to believe that B is not subject to monitoring in relation to the activity.(a) a regulated activity provider permits B to engage in regulated activity,(b) B is supplied by a personnel supplier, and(c) the permission does not have continuous effect for a period exceeding the prescribed period.(a) that the personnel supplier is appropriately registered in relation to B,(b) that the personnel supplier has no reason to believe that B is barred from the activity, and(c) that the personnel supplier has no reason to believe that B is not subject to monitoring in relation to the activity.Prescribed verification(a) he ascertains in the prescribed manner whether B is subject to monitoring in relation to the activity, and(b) he takes prescribed steps to have an enhanced criminal record certificate relating to B issued in relation to him.(a) a regulated activity provider permits B to engage in an activity that is regulated activity,(b) B engages in the activity with the permission of that and another regulated activity provider (C), and(c) the permission mentioned in paragraph (a) does not have continuous effect for a period exceeding the prescribed period.(a) a copy of an enhanced criminal record certificate relating to B issued in relation to C during the prescribed period, and(b) the confirmation mentioned in sub-paragraph (3) during the prescribed period.(a) that C is appropriately registered in relation to B,(b) that C has no reason to believe that B is barred from the activity,(c) that C has no reason to believe that B is not subject to monitoring in relation to the activity, and(d) that no information has been disclosed to C in pursuance of section 113B(6)(b) of the Police Act 1997 (c. 50) in connection with the enhanced criminal record certificate.(a) a regulated activity provider permits B to engage in regulated activity,(b) B is supplied by a personnel supplier, and(c) the permission does not have continuous effect for a period exceeding the prescribed period.(a) a copy of an enhanced criminal record certificate relating to B issued in relation to the personnel supplier during the prescribed period, and

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(b) the confirmation mentioned in sub-paragraph (3) during the prescribed period.(a) that the personnel supplier is appropriately registered in relation to B,(b) that the personnel supplier has no reason to believe that B is barred from the activity,(c) that the personnel supplier has no reason to believe that B is not subject to monitoring in relation to the activity, and(d) that no information has been disclosed to the personnel supplier in pursuance of section 113B(6)(b) of the Police Act 1997 (c. 50) in connection with the enhanced criminal record certificate.Prescribed verification(a) a regulated activity provider permits B to engage in an activity that is regulated activity,(b) B engages in the activity with the permission of that and another regulated activity provider (C), and(a) a copy of an enhanced criminal record certificate relating to B issued in relation to C during the prescribed period, and(b) the confirmation mentioned in sub-paragraph (3) during the prescribed period.(a) that C is appropriately registered in relation to B,(b) that C has no reason to believe that B is barred from the activity,(c) that C has no reason to believe that B is not subject to monitoring in relation to the activity, and(d) that no information has been disclosed to C in pursuance of section 113B(6)(b) of the Police Act 1997 (c. 50) in connection with the enhanced criminal record certificate.(a) a regulated activity provider permits B to engage in regulated activity,(b) B is supplied by a personnel supplier, and(c) the permission does not have continuous effect for a period exceeding the prescribed period.(a) a copy of an enhanced criminal record certificate relating to B issued in relation to the personnel supplier during the prescribed period, and(b) the confirmation mentioned in sub-paragraph (3) during the prescribed period.(a) that the personnel supplier is appropriately registered in relation to B,(b) that the personnel supplier has no reason to believe that B is barred from the activity,(c) that the personnel supplier has no reason to believe that

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B is not subject to monitoring in relation to the activity, and(d) that no information has been disclosed to the personnel supplier in pursuance of section 113B(6)(b) of the Police Act 1997 (c. 50) in connection with the enhanced criminal record certificate.Definitions and power to amend(a) in relation to regulated activity relating to children, an enhanced criminal record certificate issued under the Police Act 1997 containing suitability information relating to children (within the meaning of section 113BA of that Act);(b) in relation to regulated activity relating to vulnerable adults, an enhanced criminal record certificate issued under that Act containing suitability information relating to vulnerable adults (within the meaning of section 113BB of that Act).(a) he countersigned the application for the certificate as a registered person for the purposes of Part 5 of the Police Act 1997 (c. 50), or(b) the application was countersigned on his behalf by such a person.(a) he is registered in relation to B under section (Notification of cessation of monitoring),(b) his registration relates to monitoring in relation to the activity that he has permitted or supplied B to engage in, and(c) he has notified the Secretary of State of the address to which communications are to be sent in connection with his registration.

Lord Adonis: My Lords, I beg to move that this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 237 and do propose the following consequential amendment to the Bill—

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

Lord Adonis: My Lords, I beg to move that this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 238 to 249.

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