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Baroness Blatch: Perhaps the noble Earl will forgive me but there will be plenty of opportunity to discuss what I have said in the course of this debate. I am trying to cover many of the points raised in the debate.
To put the figures in context, we have already built 22 new prisons and provided nearly 20,000 additional prison places since 1979. A prison building programme sufficient to accommodate the new sentencing proposals is, therefore, realistic and achievable.
The noble Lord, Lord Rodgers, referred to stalking. We welcome what he said about that. I also say to the noble Earl, Lord Russell, that the Bill will afford protection to men as well as women.
The noble Lord, Lord Murray, referred to the very important point of juvenile offenders. He suggested that young people who have been in custody offend at a greater rate than those serving community sentences. Many young people who reoffend following custodial sentences are young people who have been cautioned, served probation sentences and other community sentences. It is unlikely--the noble Lord is or has been a magistrate and will know--that young juveniles are sent to prison for a first or second offence unless it is an extremely serious offence and deemed appropriate by the courts.
The point is important. Last year the Government set up an inter-departmental group to examine ways to identify children most at risk of becoming offenders and take action to divert them from criminality at as early an age as possible. The group concluded that while many examples of good practice exist throughout the country,
more could be done to adopt a systematic approach to preventing children from becoming offenders. We therefore intend to publish a Green Paper in the autumn setting out a new strategy for identifying and taking action to deal with children at risk of becoming offenders.The vetting and supervision of adults working with children and young people was also raised by the noble Earl, Lord Mar and Kellie. The Government decided that following proposals in the consultation document On the Record in Scotland, published in June, access to criminal records checks will be extended to all voluntary youth organisations. Consultation will also take place with all interested parties in Scotland, and of course in England and Wales, on proposals for a national information and accreditation system. That was in response to the Cullen Report.
My noble friend Lady Seccombe, in her supportive speech, referred to the National Crime Squad. It is right that the National Crime Squad will not compromise local policing. Members of the public will still report crime to their local police force. The National Crime Squad will support police forces in the investigation of serious crime at the request of the force's chief constable. The Criminal Records Agency was also referred to by the noble Earl. The agency will provide improved access to criminal records for employment-related purposes. I should point out that it is a separate measure from Lord Cullen's proposals for an accreditation scheme.
The noble Lord, Lord Balfour, made a forceful speech about the quality of the arts. I should like to come back to him on that. He also talked amusingly, but seriously, about "PC" and the way it dogs our lives. I can only say that when I was in local government and my authority became a hung council--or, as I preferred to call it, an "unhinged" council--I could not be leader of the council because it was deemed to be hierarchical. I therefore became an equal member of an egalitarian triumvirate; the chairman became "chairperson" and subsequently "chair". Even that was deemed hierarchical so that gave way to "spokesman", "spokesperson" and then to "spoke". I dislike the term "Ms"; I prefer Miss or Mrs or the use of a Christian or surname. And I share much of what the noble Lord said in regard to reform of this great place. Hasty change by a one or two clause Bill is no way to approach such serious reform.
We are all concerned about the point raised by my noble friend Lord Halsbury that he will be raising also in his Private Member's Bill. I should like to see the Bill and consider it in detail. However, at the moment we sympathise and empathise with his point in relation to there being too much pornography too freely available in our community.
I am always pleased to talk with my noble friend Lord Marlesford about his ideas for the future and I promise to talk with him in some detail about the points he raised.
I must refer to Northern Ireland because my noble friend Lady Park referred to that important issue. The Government wish to see all illegally-held weapons removed from circulation. The multi-party talks are at
present addressing that question. No agreement has yet been reached. However, we are determined that the process should not be held up because of the absence of the necessary statutory framework and the Bill announced by the Prime Minister yesterday will be introduced in the autumn. The multi-party talks proceed. In principle we believe that they will benefit from being as inclusive as possible. But their success does not depend on Sinn Fein being there. Both British and Irish Governments have committed themselves to proceed wholeheartedly with the talks, whether or not Sinn Fein is at the table.My noble friend mentioned Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Constitution, embodying the so-called claim on Northern Ireland. As my noble friend said, the Irish Government have committed themselves to amending their constitution so as to remove any such claim in the context of a settlement. What is most significant is that all major political parties in Ireland--North and South--are now committed to the principle that consent would be needed to a change in the constitutional status of Northern Ireland.
If the noble Lord, Lord Rea, will forgive me, I shall come back to him in detail. Suffice to say that our proposals respond to the views expressed by healthcare professionals and NHS management. They aim to improve services for patients with better targeting of local needs. There will be safeguards for patients including the retention of the right to be registered with a GP of one's choice.
The noble Earl, Lord Russell, referred to Hillingdon and to the judgment of Lord Justice Collins, against which we are appealing. I should therefore like to write to him in relation to those points. Measures being brought forward in the fraud Bill are designed to improve the powers to prevent, detect and deter fraud with a focus on landlords and serious fraudsters, as benefit fraud is estimated to cost £4 billion a year. The details of the Bill will be discussed in due course.
The noble Lord, Lord McIntosh, referred to what my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said on the radio this morning. I listened to him carefully and have since looked at the transcript. First, it is a matter of fact that major Bills take longer in Parliament than other Bills. They are complex and from time to time there will be attempts to amend them. There is limited time in this Parliament, as everyone knows. Of its nature the crime Bill will take longer to proceed through Parliament for those reasons. There was no question whatever of accusing the Labour Party of obstruction on the Security Service Bill. The truth is that one Bill took around seven months. We do not have seven months left in this Parliament and that was the reason for the comment. No offence was meant to the Labour Party.
In conclusion, as your Lordships know, time for this Session of Parliament is limited. We have a substantial, responsive and effective programme of legislation before us designed not to play politics but because we believe it is the right thing to do: effective punishment, protection of the public, the tackling of organised crime, tightening controls to prevent undesirable people from working with children, the strengthening of supervision of sex offenders in the community and more. It is not gesture politics. It is a real response to real problems in the community. The Opposition may feel that it is just playing politics; we believe that those issues are important and we shall not be deterred from our programme.
Whatever the views we hold in this House, I am confident that there will be lively, and I suspect at times tense, but always courteous debate in this House. I look forward to engaging in those discussions.
Viscount Long: My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lady Chalker of Wallasey I beg to move that the debate be adjourned until Monday next.
Moved, That the debate be adjourned until Monday next.--(Viscount Long.)
On Question, Motion agreed to, and debate adjourned accordingly until Monday next.
- House adjourned at twenty-nine minutes past eight o'clock.
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