House of Lords
Wednesday, 13th November 1996.
The House met at half-past two of the clock: The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers--Read by the Lord Bishop of Lichfield.
Lord Daresbury--Sat first in Parliament after the death of his father.
Springvale University Campus Proposal
Lord Holme of Cheltenham asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Why they are withholding support from the Springvale Campus Project in Belfast (the so-called "Peaceline Campus").
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Baroness Denton of Wakefield): My Lords, the University of Ulster's Springvale university campus proposal is a major proposal involving significant resources. The Government had reached no decision when the University of Ulster decided on 4th October to put the project in its current form on hold.
Lord Holme of Cheltenham: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that somewhat disappointing Answer. Does she agree that with a visionary and key project such as this what she has said is not just in marked contrast to the enthusiasm expressed originally by the Secretary of State but is almost tantamount to rejection? Further, does she agree that it imperils £30 million of non-governmental support which the University of Ulster has identified; frustrates the potential of going to the Millennium Fund for additional money; and, what is most important, withdraws a point of hope and initiative from people in an area when they sorely need both those things?
Baroness Denton of Wakefield: My Lords, I refer the noble Lord to my first Answer which says that there is no proposal on the table. It is difficult to make mythical decisions. Much work is being done to bring hope to north and west Belfast. I was pleased to announce this morning that the biggest drop in unemployment in parliamentary constituencies has been in those two areas, which proves that our targeting of social need is working. I know that the University of Ulster and the Belfast Institute for Further and Higher Education are together looking at smaller projects which could be regarded as modular moves which would not take away hope. There may be an unsubstantiated promise of £30 million, but that does not tell us where to find the further £60 million or £70 million which is needed.
Lord Morris of Castle Morris: My Lords, if the Government are absolutely determined, as it seems that
they are, to withhold support from the Springvale Campus Project since they have dithered for so many months about what they are going to do, will the Minister kindly explain in what ways they plan to increase funding for higher education in Northern Ireland where it is desperately needed?
Baroness Denton of Wakefield: My Lords, waiting for the university to do a feasibility study and then ourselves doing an economic study of its impact is not my definition of dithering. Northern Ireland has the significant achievement of 41 per cent. of its youngsters going to university. I do not believe that we can be criticised over higher education.
Lord Hylton: My Lords, would not a positive decision on this matter be the greatest possible confidence-building measure that the Government could deliver in Northern Ireland? Is the Minister aware that this proposal has the support of both local constituency MPs, coming, as they do, from opposing political traditions?
Baroness Denton of Wakefield: My Lords, many activities in Northern Ireland have the support of all parties. That message may not get out as often as it should. Not everyone is in conflict with everyone else. The project could not happen without other parts of education being affected. Such considerations have to be taken seriously. We wait to see what is brought forward by the University of Ulster in a different format. But there is great hope in these areas and there is great spend in the economic area, including the bringing of jobs, which seems to me is the best inspiration of hope.
Lord Glentoran: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that this project is not just another campus project but is more of a regeneration project in what is perhaps one of the most divided and difficult communities of our Kingdom? Furthermore, does she agree that, were it successful, the gains in forwarding the peace process could be remarkable?
Baroness Denton of Wakefield: My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we encourage the development of innovative proposals, which is important for this area. However, I strike a note of caution as regards his depressing depiction of the scene. A great deal of work is being undertaken and much support is being given to attract new investment to the area. For instance, £15 million-worth of support was given for F.G. Wilson to come into the area, and we are acquiring a new business park. We are beginning to see change and we are encouraging people there to take charge of their lives.
Lord Holme of Cheltenham: My Lords, it would not be proper to pretend that the change should happen at the expense of some of the other admirable projects mentioned by the noble Baroness. However, she referred to the gap in funding between the £13 million identified by the University of Ulster and the £100 million cost of the project. May I urge the Minister to look at the
example of the Scottish Office--I hope that she will agree that she should do so--in relation to the Highlands and Islands University, where its positive and active support is part of the case being made for the Millennium Fund?
Baroness Denton of Wakefield: My Lords, we examine everything that is happening in order to learn from it. However, I stress that our first responsibility is to examine the needs of Northern Ireland. Perhaps I may draw attention to the fact that the Scottish Office does not have to find £20 million in compensation for damage done during the summer.
Rabies and Quarantine Regulations
2.45 p.m.
Lord Carter asked Her Majesty's Government:
- When they expect to complete the risk assessment of rabies and quarantine announced by the Chief Veterinary Officer of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to the Royal Society of Medicine on 3rd May 1995.
Lord Lucas: My Lords, no such risk assessment was announced. The Chief Veterinary Officer indicated in May 1995 that if the arrangements for protecting the UK from rabies were to change an assessment of the risks would be carried out at the appropriate time. The Government are now looking again at these matters. If any changes were to be made these would have to take as their starting point the paramount need to protect the health of people and animals in this country.
Lord Carter: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Perhaps I may remind him that at the symposium on Rabies in a Changing World, held at the Royal Society of Medicine on 3rd May 1995, the Chief Veterinary Officer said:
- "We will carry out our own risk assessment",
- "The Ministry of Agriculture is taking a positive line. We are listening and will carry out our own risk assessment analysis".
Therefore, why has there been a change of stance since May 1995? Does the Minister agree that any sensible review of the existing policy on rabies and quarantine must be based on a proper and thorough risk assessment?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, I believe that there is a slight misunderstanding of what the Chief Veterinary Officer said. Yes, there will be a risk assessment if and when there are proposals for change.
Viscount Monckton of Brenchley: My Lords, I hope that no risk will be taken. I have seen a man die from rabies; I have had to shoot my own dogs; and, with 200 others, I have had to undergo 12 daily injections in
the stomach. As the disease is so close now in Belgium, will the Minister assure the House that every precaution will still be taken?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, yes, indeed.
Lord Wyatt of Weeford: My Lords, will the Minister assure us that no attention will be paid to the views of the present Governor of Hong Kong, who wishes to bring his dogs back to this country without quarantine when he leaves there in 1997?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, whatever other change we might make, we would have to take into account the proximity of Hong Kong and China; China being a country where we believe that dog rabies may well be endemic.
Lord Soulsby of Swaffham Prior: My Lords, is the Minister aware that two risk assessments have been carried out; the first by the Commission of European Communities in 1991 and the second in New Zealand in 1994, which is most revealing? Will he place both those documents in the Library for further consultation?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, if we have documents which are capable of being released and are public documents I shall certainly place them in the Library.
I am aware of those documents and of the fact that risk assessments have been carried out. However, the New Zealand assessment was of a theoretical vaccination procedure, which we agree can produce protection equivalent to quarantine. We are not interested in a theoretical procedure but in a practical procedure which would guarantee the same level of protection.
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