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Viscount Goschen moved Amendment No. 6:


Page 180, line 33, after ("is") insert ("made under paragraph 9A below or is otherwise").

The noble Viscount said: My Lords, in moving this amendment, it may be for the convenience of the House if I speak also to Amendments Nos. 7 to 16. These amendments honour the commitments I gave during the Committee stage of the Whole House and at Report stage, to look again at the provisions of the Bill that deal with the application of the London lorry ban to the Channel Tunnel rail link in the light of concerns raised by my noble friend Lord Jenkin and indeed by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, who also has an amendment tabled with this group.

The amendments follow a very useful meeting with my noble friend and the noble Baroness, and officials of the London Boroughs Transport Scheme, on 12th November, and a further constructive meeting between officials on Monday, when agreement on the exact nature of the amendments to be made was reached.

The amendments before us this evening remove the word "cost-effective" from the existing provisions of paragraphs 9(2)(a) and 9(3)(a), words to which, as my noble friend explained in Committee, LBTS objected. I should perhaps point out that the issue of timing in relation to the grant of permits raised by my noble friend in Committee has fallen away with the amendment to line 4 of page 181 removing altogether the provision relating to the deemed grant of permits after one working day contained in paragraph 9(6).

The amendments also provide a mechanism for "emergency" permits to be issued where a journey is proposed to be made in less than eight working days' time, allowing, among other things, the Secretary of State to impose conditions on the grant of such permits. I should stress for the record that such a procedure is intended for emergencies only, and that we would not expect its use to become the norm. Indeed, we have offered LBTS an assurance that we would require LCR to require its haulage contractors to submit applications at least eight days in advance where reasonably practicable. For its part, LBTS has accepted the need for appeals against the imposition of conditions which might obstruct the proper carrying out of the CTRL works to come to the Secretary of State.

Finally, I should say that we have also offered LBTS a number of assurances, one of which I have already mentioned, to deal with the concerns it expressed during the discussions which could not readily be dealt with in statute. Those include offering an assurance that we would require LCR to set up a contact point for LBTS for enforcement queries about its haulage contractors should, for example, LBTS sight a CTRL lorry on a road not covered by a permit.

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Those assurances, once they are accepted, will of course be entered onto the register of such assurances that we have been keeping. I know that that is a particular concern of my noble friend Lord Jenkin and I hope that he is happy to hear that that assurance is now on the record. Noble Lords will know--from what was said during Committee, on Report, and from the letter I subsequently wrote to the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, to which reference was made on Report, that that would mean that LCR would be required to comply with the assurances.

I hope, therefore, that it will not surprise noble Lords if I say that I believe that with these amendments and the assurances we have offered we have gone a very long way indeed to meet the concerns of LBTS, so eloquently detailed by my noble friend during the earlier stages of the Bill, and struck the right balance between the needs of a project of national significance that has the support of both Houses, and the environmental protection afforded to London residents by the lorry ban.

I am also happy to make clear to my noble friend that the procedures which we have now agreed, and provided for in our amendment, should not be seen--indeed, they are not seen by us--as setting a precedent, rather they reflect the national significance of the CTRL project, as can be seen from the scale and extensive planning provisions found in Schedule 6. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has tabled an amendment which relates to this group. If it meets with the convenience of the House, perhaps I may reply to her points once she has spoken. I beg to move.

Baroness Hamwee: My Lords, I seek to move Amendment No. 16 as an amendment to Amendment No. 15, but perhaps I may speak generally in response to some of the amendments that have already been moved, as well as explaining my amendment.

I am grateful for the time that the Minister and his officials have devoted to this issue. I am grateful also to the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin of Roding, who has put a lot of work into ensuring that the London lorry ban is not--

Viscount Goschen: My Lords, I apologise to the House for intervening, but, to set the record straight, technically speaking we are discussing the grouping with Amendment No. 6, so the noble Baroness does not need to move her amendment. That is what I understand from advice from the Table. Technically, the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness has yet to be moved, but that does not alter the problem. If the noble Baroness merely speaks to her amendment, we can sort out the technicalities in a moment.

6.15 p.m.

Baroness Hamwee: My Lords, I am hearing different advice from different directions. I do not think that I have ever heard an amendment to an amendment being moved without us getting into some difficulties.

However, to return to the substantive point, it is perhaps something of a misnomer to refer to the "London lorry ban" in those words; it is a permit scheme

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to protect London's environment and to balance the interests of the environment with those of ensuring that important projects can develop.

I should prefer there to be no exceptions to the scheme--irrespective of whether they are or are not the thin end of the wedge or whether the timing is too early or too late. As a small measure of support for that, perhaps I may mention a letter which the unit received from the Corporation of the City of London, which I am sure that noble Lords will recognise takes a considered view of such matters and speaks authoritatively. The corporation said that, in its view, disapplying the ban would have set a particularly unwise precedent, particularly as the present arrangements appear to be working satisfactorily for large-scale projects. It is essential that local authorities have the ability to ensure that suitable routes are used--this is relevant to my amendment--that vehicles can be safely accommodated and that their impact on the environment in terms of noise, vibration and pollution is minimal.

My amendment relates to paragraph (g) of Amendment No. 15 which will be new Section 9A(3) which deals with proposed stops in London for the purpose of making a delivery or collection. The fact that I seek to alter those words in what may seem to be a minimal way might appear to be carping, but I do not believe that that is the case. It is important to ensure that lorries which do not have any proper business going through central London should be restricted in doing so. I understand that there is concern that there might be an occasion when the M.25 is blocked in both directions. That may or may not be a realistic concern and I leave it to your Lordships to assess the state of the M.25--but perhaps not tonight. If that were to happen, it must be more than likely that the police would impose diversions, but I cannot think that they would wish to divert traffic up, say, Acacia Avenue somewhere in the East End--in other words, along a residential street--as an alternative to using trunk roads.

It is important that individual drivers are not given an excuse to make short cuts or to stop off for personal reasons. In seeking to tweak the wording of the paragraph, I suggest that a provision to limit journeys through central London to those which are entirely necessary is an appropriate final amendment to make to this Bill. In this connection I refer to paragraph 3.4 in the policy statement dealing with exemptions published by the London Boroughs Transport Committee:


    "The most important criterion which will apply when a decision is made whether or not to grant a Permit is the circumstances of the applicant's need for a Permit. First and foremost it is the Committee's policy to ensure that only vehicles undertaking necessary business in London should be permitted to use restricted roads in the area for which the Committee is responsible".

The committee is not only responsible for certain roads but is itself a responsible committee. One of the difficulties that underlay the whole debate on this issue over the past few weeks was the concern that the committee might change and not be so responsible. As proposed, the powers now rest with the Secretary of State rather than the committee. I am unable to resist the comment that the Secretary of State may change as well. Some noble Lords may feel that a future Secretary

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of State--I do not comment on colour since I do not want to make a party political point--may be less responsible. I do not believe that a complete balance has been struck.

I am glad to hear the Minister's assurance about the undertakings being formally recorded on the register. That is extremely helpful. I am also glad to hear his comment that because of the exceptional importance of the scheme no precedent is being set. Both I and the unit are grateful that matters have moved forward and perhaps some of the objections have been met, and, even more, it has been clarified how matters will proceed in future.


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