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Earl Howe: My Lords, I entirely identify myself with the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Holme, at the beginning of his supplementary question. I believe we owe the Gurkhas a great debt. The Gurkhas have rendered unique and outstanding service to the British Army and to this country over many years. I believe that accompanied service in the UK is a legitimate aspiration by the Brigade of Gurkhas. I am confident that the review we are conducting will produce a fair and equitable package of recommendations that fully address the Brigade's concerns. However, these issues are complex, and the terms and conditions of service for Gurkhas are complicated and the process will take a little longer. I anticipate that we will be in a position to announce any changes to Parliament shortly after Christmas.
The Earl of Lauderdale: My Lords, will my noble friend assure the House that there will be nothing said,
thought or suggested that in any way compromises the nationwide appreciation of the wonderful loyalty and support of the Gurkha regiment?
Earl Howe: My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend. We value the Gurkhas highly as part of the Army. The brigade's future in the Army is secure.
Lord Williams of Elvel: My Lords, will the noble Earl confirm that the Government's avowed concern for family values applies not just to British families but also to Nepalese families?
Earl Howe: My Lords, indeed yes. That is why we are devoting a great deal of thought to how we can address the brigade's concerns not just in terms of accompanied service but also in terms of the education of their children, were Gurkha families to be housed here.
Viscount Waverley: My Lords, to what extent are the Gurkhas filling in as a result of an over-calculation as regards Options for Change?
Earl Howe: My Lords, as I am sure the noble Viscount will know, three Gurkha reinforcement companies comprising some 400 men in total are to be used as a temporary means of correcting undermanning in three British infantry battalions. That, I believe, is a sensible arrangement. It is one that your Lordships found favour with in our debate on the Defence Estimates in 1995. Those Gurkhas have been assigned to the 1st Battalion of the Royal Scots in Colchester, the 1st Battalion of the Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment in Canterbury and the 2nd Battalion of the Parachute Regiment in Aldershot. I believe that we are lucky to have them.
Lord Craig of Radley: My Lords, the last point made was that the Gurkhas are filling in for British soldiers. Does that not mean that the Gurkhas should be treated in the same way as we expect our own British soldiers to be treated? Can the Minister give an undertaking that that will be taken into account when considering the issue of married quarters?
Earl Howe: My Lords, I can give an absolute undertaking that that will be taken into account. We are very anxious indeed to ensure that we make the right decisions for the Gurkhas' and their families' future welfare.
Lord Mayhew: My Lords, is the noble Earl saying that there needs to be an inquiry as to whether the redeployment should be accompanied or unaccompanied? There are cases where a deployment has to be unaccompanied, for example, where the situation is urgent or where deployment is for only a short period of time. What possible reason can there be for sending back these people without their families? Does the Minister agree that the Gurkhas are rather bad at complaining and therefore there is additional responsibility on Ministers to ensure that their needs are properly looked after?
Earl Howe: My Lords, we take these issues very seriously. I am sure that the noble Lord will be aware that until now the majority of Gurkhas' service in the Army has been spent either in Hong Kong or Brunei, and very little of it in the UK. Most of their service will now be in the UK. It is only right that we should readdress the entire terms and conditions of service of the Gurkhas and that we should consider the matter as a package.
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, will the Minister say--
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, it is a related question.
The Lord Privy Seal (Viscount Cranborne): My Lords, with the greatest respect to the noble Lord, Lord Mackie of Benshie, I wonder whether we should move to the next Question. We have under six minutes of Question Time left.
Oaks: Imports
3.2 p.m.
Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether imports of foreign oak seedlings pose a threat to the long-term health of indigenous British oak trees.
Lord Lucas: My Lords, the oak seedlings which are imported into Britain do not pose a significant threat to the health of our oak trees. This is because the pests and diseases which affect European oaks are very similar to those which affect our oaks. Nevertheless, certification procedures are in place to ensure that imported seedlings are healthy.
Lord Campbell of Croy: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reassuring reply. However, can he confirm that the Millennium Commission plans to finance the establishment of about 250 new woodlands in Britain to include oaks from Eastern Europe, apparently because they are cheaper than our native acorns? Might that in time dilute the genetic strength of our oaks and cause other damage to local ecologies in the areas concerned, as some botanists fear?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, my noble friend should not be too concerned. We have always imported oak seedlings and acorns. In only about one year in seven do we have enough acorns from our own trees to satisfy our demand because we are in a marginal area for the oak and it does not set seed well every year. One can go back in history to look at extensive importations in the past which have not caused us any difficulty. I do not believe that it will do so in the future. There is no evidence that wildlife will suffer
in any way from importations. Indeed, genetic diversity in our own stock is to be valued. If more genetic diversity is to be found outside the United Kingdom, we would do better to have it here.
Lord Carter: My Lords, is the Minister aware that the alien seedlings come from oaks in central and eastern Europe which have been isolated from British oaks for 4 million years? Experts and conservation interests argue that beetles, flies, caterpillars, birds and mammals could be at risk from the changed ecology of their environment. Is this not a classic case of penny wise, ecology foolish?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, no, I do not agree with that. It is clear that the species are very close. If there is a difference it is very small compared with the difference between our two native oak species, the common and the durmast oak, whose differences are further apart than those between the common oak in England and, say, in Hungary. The danger may be that the common oak in Hungary is adapted to a continental rather than a maritime climate and, therefore, may not grow well. It may be a bad tree from a forestry point of view but it is likely to be good for wildlife.
Lord Carter: My Lords, if the growth is delayed, will that not affect all the birds which rely on the oak for their food?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, there is a great variation between the dates that English oaks come into flower and leaf. There is a two-week spread within our own species. The common and the durmast oak flower at different times, and the times vary in differing years. I do not believe that there is any danger that the variation arising from European oaks will be greater than our natural variation.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch: My Lords, is it not true that the indigenous British oak is to be proscribed by the forestry reproductive materials directive, 66/404, which proscribes many varieties of seeds and is about to wipe out some 95 per cent. of our natural varieties of tomato and many of the tastier forms of broad bean?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, the connection between oaks and tomatoes escapes me briefly. No, the European regulations make sure that seed comes from quality sources. Because of the depredations in the United Kingdom over two world wars, there are not many quality oak woods left in this country, but there are enough in good years for our requirements. I hesitate to tell the noble Lord (but I shall whisper it to him) that the English oak is actually French.
Lord Skelmersdale: My Lords, following my noble friend's supplementary question, is the Minister aware that were this Question to refer to British people we would discuss it in the context of ethnic cleansing? Is that not a pertinent fact?
Lord Lucas: My Lords, I hope not.
Lord Gisborough: My Lords, is it not true that almost all of our trees, except for the silver birch, have been imported? We have hundreds of different species, not one of which is native.
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