| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Swansea moved Amendment No. 27:
The noble Lord said: This amendment is extremely important. It deals with competitors or potential competitors in international competitions--for example, in the Olympic Games, the Commonwealth Games, and so on. The Committee has seen the wording of the amendment. The effect is to permit the chief officer of police to grant a year's permit to people chosen to be members of the national squad (and who live in his area) in order to represent the country in international competition. The permit would only be granted while they were members of the squad. The effect of the permit is to give the shooter the right to possess his or her gun at home and outside the confines of a specific licensed pistol club.
For international competitions of this kind, daily access to a pistol is essential. A competitor has to be able to get at it every day for tuning and maintenance, for dry firing and for live firing when needed. That may require access for anything up to five or six days a week. It is essential for the competitor to keep himself and his pistol in top trim building up to a competition.
These men and women represent their country with great personal commitment. A refusal to accept this amendment would mean that Parliament is prepared to accept that sacrifice and enjoy the national benefit of them winning international competitions, but is not prepared to trust this small number of highly motivated competitors, who are identified at the end of a long process, not to commit an outrage such as Dunblane. This would not only be implausible, it would also be insulting. These people work very hard to represent their country. They have to keep themselves in top trim.
The Government's commitment to sport was attested to by its White Paper Raising the Game, which announced the creation of a new British Academy of Sport. Complementing that, Virginia Bottomley, the Secretary of State for National Heritage, announced on 14th November last that £50 million of National Lottery funds are to be made available to fund individual sportsmen and women. The Government are providing the facilities and the finance needed by competitors at an elite level in order to allow them to become champions. The least they can do in this case is to make it as easy as possible for our top competitors in target shooting--a sport which was invented in this country and which the British have dominated in international competition for many years.
For Britain to secure a place at the Olympic Games in Sydney it must succeed in the preceding national games. To compete in Sydney, a British shooter must gain one of only 20 quota places. Not every country is allowed to compete, however good their competitors. The quota places are allocated on the basis of the results
Like every other sport, the medal winners develop through a network of competition and coaching. This begins at club level. Competitions for the national squad are held throughout the country and from the national squad only those who reach further levels of excellence are chosen to compete overseas.
The margin between a medal and no medal is no less fine than in any other sport, requiring years of exacting, disciplined training and equipment equal to that of any competitor of rival nations. Serious competitors need to practise four hours' dry firing, six hours' live firing and at least six hours' physical and mental training per week. All UK squad shooters work full time and train in their spare time. The present restrictions on taking guns out of clubs make it impossible for effective training at international level. We should be in no doubt that if the Committee permits the Bill to go forward unamended we shall be destroying British participation in Olympic and other international shooting. I beg to move.
Baroness Blatch: We covered much of this amendment in the main debate on the group of amendments, so I hope the noble Lord will forgive me if I do not come back in any great detail on the points that he made. I would invite him to read Hansard. Perhaps we may discuss some of these points at the next stage of the Bill.
I wish to pick up two points. My noble friend introduced the notion of the lottery, and lottery money being made available. In principle the lottery money is available. The lottery has a sports section, and shooting is not exempt or excluded from an application to the lottery. In fact, I said that at Second Reading, but it is worth putting it on record again.
Secondly, just to remind my noble friend, all the sports events in the Olympic Games will be supported (because shooting clubs will be allowed to continue) and four out of the five events in the Commonwealth Games, as I have mentioned to the noble Lord, Lord Howell, with particular attention to two matters that we are discussing today, one of which is the higher calibre event and the other is the practising for that event and the pool from which the future talent will come for the squads. I would ask my noble friend to read what has been said in Hansard, because much of this was covered in the earlier debate.
Lord Swansea: I can hardly describe my noble friend's reply as encouraging. In any event, I do not propose to press this amendment, but I hope that my noble friend will take it away and give it deep consideration. I may return to it at a later stage. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch moved Amendment No. 28:
The noble Lord said: I regret to say that I feel that this amendment should be taken outside the grouping. I was telephoned this morning by the most charming sounding young lady from the office of my noble friend on the Front Bench to see whether I agreed with this amendment being grouped with the rest of the amendments. At the time I thought that I might, but when we come to it, I am afraid I cannot.
The Bill provides that the chief of police may issue a permit to take guns away from the club where they are licensed to be stored so that they may be used in a recognised target shooting competition. Subsection (9) then gives the Secretary of State power to designate such competitions as he thinks fit as recognised target shooting competitions. But these competitions have been organised and developed for some 150 years without the dread interference of the state.
I submit that it is really not appropriate that the Home Secretary should now distinguish between competitions he approves of and those he does not. If people apply to attend tin-pot competitions of no standing, the police will not grant permits. There is, therefore, no need at all for this subsection and that should be the preferred option. Indeed, one could say the same for the whole of this wretched Bill.
But this amendment does not go that far. It requires the Home Secretary to take the advice of the shooting organisations which know about these competitions before designating or not designating any competition. This is, therefore, another entirely reasonable little amendment which will do much to help the sport without damaging the very doubtful aims of this flawed and unnecessary Bill. So I hope that my noble friend can accept it. I beg to move.
Baroness Blatch: I am in some embarrassment at this point. I responded quite specifically to Amendment No. 28 before my noble friend re-entered the Chamber after his supper. But he might be warmed by what I had to say in his absence; namely, that I had a lot of sympathy with the amendment and with what he said.
It is our intention that the Government should consult with governing bodies concerned. It is important that the Secretary of State makes a decision. By all means he should be advised and listen to that advice, but at the end of the day he should not in fact be bound by that advice. But we are entirely happy with the idea that he will take it into account in coming to a decision.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch: I am warmed by what my noble friend said from the Front Bench. I apologise if I was two minutes late for the start of proceedings after the dinner break but by my calculation they started three minutes early.
All I can say to my noble friend is that I very much hope that she will be able to consider what was Amendment No. 21 tonight in the same spirit with which she has received this amendment. Obviously,
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Swansea moved Amendment No. 29:
The noble Lord said: This amendment provides for a right of appeal against the decision by a chief officer of police not to grant a permit. It is against the principle of natural justice. It is something that should be put right. I beg to move.
Page 4, line 19, at end insert--
("( ) A person who is certified by the recognised governing body of the sport to be a person who has been invited to be a member of the group from which national competitors at international competitions will be selected may be granted a permit under subsection (1) to which subsection (2) shall not apply; and such permit shall be granted for one year and be renewable while membership of the group continues to be certified.").
Page 5, line 24, after ("order") insert ("on the advice of a recognised governing body of the sport").
Page 5, line 26, at end insert--
("( ) A person aggrieved by the refusal of a chief officer of police to grant a permit under this section or by any condition imposed on such a permit may, in accordance with section 44 of the 1968 Act, appeal against such refusal or condition.").
Next Section
Back to Table of Contents
Lords Hansard Home Page