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Division No. 2

CONTENTS
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Annaly, L.
Attlee, E.
Barber of Tewkesbury, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Biddulph, L.
Blease, L.
Boardman, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Brain, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brookes, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burton, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carnock, L.
Chalfont, L.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clifford of Chudleigh, L.
Congleton, L.
Cornwallis, L.
Cottesloe, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawshaw, L.
Cross, V.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Davidson, V.
De Saumarez, L.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Derwent, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Downshire, M.
Dundonald, E.
Erroll, E.
Exmouth, V.
Feversham, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gisborough, L. [Teller.]
Glenarthur, L.
Haddington, E.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Hertford, M.
Holderness, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooson, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Ilchester, E.
Inchcape, E.
Inchyra, L.
Kintore, E.
Kirkwood, L.
Knutsford, V.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Lytton, E.
McNair, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Manton, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Monteagle of Brandon, L.
Moran, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountgarret, V.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Norfolk, D.
Northesk, E.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Palmer, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E. [Teller.]
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Quinton, L.
Raglan, L.
Reay, L.
Rennell, L.
Richardson, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Saint Oswald, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandwich, E.
Savile, L.
Shannon, E.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon, V.
Stanley of Alderley, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strafford, E.
Strathcarron, L.
Swansea, L.
Taverne, L.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Vernon, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wharton, B.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wrenbury, L.
Wyatt of Weeford, L.
Wynford, L.
Yarborough, E.
Zouche of Haryngworth, L.

NOT-CONTENTS
Aberdare, L.
Abinger, L.
Acton, L.
Addison, V.
Ailsa, M.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Balfour, E.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barnett, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blatch, B.
Bolton, L.
Bowness, L.
Brentford, V.
Brigstocke, B.
Byford, B.
Caldecote, V.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chelmsford, V.
Chesham, L. [Teller.]
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleridge, L.
Courtown, E.
Cranborne, V. [Lord Privy Seal.] Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
David, B.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Ellenborough, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erne, E.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Flather, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glenamara, L.
Goschen, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Gregson, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Hughes, L.
Inglewood, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Judd, L.
Kimball, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lockwood, B.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L. [Lord Chancellor.] Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Marlesford, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Nathan, L.
Nickson, L.
Nicol, B.
O'Cathain, B.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Peston, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Seccombe, B.
Sewel, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strathclyde, L. [Teller.]
Sudeley, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Tollemache, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Ullswater, V.
White, B.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winston, L.
Wise, L.
Young, B.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

21 Jan 1997 : Column 592

5.27 p.m.

Lord Monson moved Amendment No. 41:

After Clause 11, insert the following new clause--

Exemption from surrender of firearm where export licence application made
(" .--(1) A holder of a firearm certificate authorising possession of a firearm which will become, or has become, unlawful by virtue of section 1 above shall not be required to surrender that firearm in accordance with section 10 above if that person has made application to the Department of Trade and Industry in the prescribed form for an export licence for that firearm not later than fourteen days before the date announced by the Secretary of State as the final date for the surrender of that category of firearm.
(2) The holder of the firearm certificate shall be required to surrender the firearm to the police--
(a) if the export licence is not granted, not more than seven days after receiving such notification from the Department of Trade and Industry; or
(b) if the export licence is granted, not more than fifty-six days after receiving such notification if the firearm has not been exported by that time.
(3) A person who surrenders a firearm to a chief officer of police under subsection (2) above shall be entitled to the same payment under section 11 above as if he had surrendered the firearm in accordance with the arrangements made by the Secretary of State under section 10 above.").

The noble Lord said: The purpose of the proposed new clause is to enable those who have guns, which will become unlawful if the Bill is passed, to make arrangements to sell them abroad without being unduly hindered by the tight time-scale of surrender which is currently envisaged. Subsection (1) of the clause requires the owner to apply for an export licence at least 14 days before the final date for surrender of the gun under normal arrangements. So he has to find by that time a person, club or dealer to whom he can export the gun. Once he had applied for an export licence the owner would not be required to surrender it within the short time-scale, given that export licences may take some time to be granted.

Subsection (2) sets the time limit for disposal of the gun after the owner is advised of the outcome of the export licence application. If it is turned down, he has seven days to surrender it to the police. On the other hand, if it is granted he has eight weeks to make the necessary arrangements to get the gun out of the country. If it is not exported within the time limit, it has to be surrendered to the police.

Subsection (3) makes it clear that if the gun has to be surrendered to the police because an export licence is not granted, or because the owner cannot get it exported within the time limit, the owner is entitled to the same compensation as is due to everyone else. The amendment enables gun owners to pass their possessions on at a fair price to other persons who can

21 Jan 1997 : Column 593

legally hold them in their own countries. It could also enable some historic guns, which are not regarded as very important in Britain, to be returned to countries where they are of significance.

From the Government's viewpoint, any gun sold overseas reduces their liability--or, strictly speaking, that of the taxpayer--for compensation. It also reduces the workload on the police in administering the surrender arrangements. Incidentally, the Australian scheme does allow gun owners to export if they so wish. I beg to move.

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