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Viscount Waverley: My Lords, I am at one with the common desire to bring democracy, freedom and human rights to Cuba. That said, I am totally opposed to the principle of extra-territorial legislation, whatever its source.
I consider myself a friend of the United States and am sensitive to our close bilateral relationship. However, I would like to express certain concerns. Although I recognise that certain provisions of the Helms-Burton Act have been suspended, it is of continuing concern to me that the United States is not a team player.
Policy towards Cuba is only but one example. Development policy both near and far, decertification action against a number of regional states, a disagreeable protectionist attitude and holding out on UN arrears with a "What is in it for us?" approach is being neither statesmanlike nor appropriate as the sole superpower.
The United States could offer a great deal to our global village but is doing little more than being a recalcitrant big brother. It will not have escaped attention that even Canada's Foreign Minister, representing Cuba's leading trade and investment partner, began a state visit to Havana yesterday. It seems to me that Canada, as a co-partner in NAFTA, has proceeded with this visit in spectacular defiance of United States policy.
My fervent hope is that the forthright Secretary of State designate is able to knock some sense, worthy of her reputation, into the foreign policy of the United States and into Senator Helms.
Viscount Montgomery of Alamein: My Lords, the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, will be pleased to hear that I agree with every word he said. He is totally on the right lines, for once, which is very encouraging.
Viscount Montgomery of Alamein: My Lords, I, too, am indebted to my noble friend Lady Young for introducing the debate. She has done sterling work in the past few years in promoting our trade with Cuba. Her chairmanship of Caritag and the Cuba Initiative is well known and is greatly to be commended. I was in Cuba in August. I went to many meetings which concluded in discussion of what my noble friend was to do and how much they were looking forward to her visit. I felt a little like John the Baptist in the context of preparing the way for someone much greater than myself. Long may that continue and I hope that my noble friend will continue with her work.
I first went to Cuba in 1960 as a senior executive of Shell in order to participate in the reorganisation of that company's affairs in Cuba. I had been involved in Latin America for some years and I hoped that I would stay in Cuba for some time. It is an incredibly beautiful
Unfortunately, my stay was short lived because by then the revolution was well on its way. It was decided that the foreign oil companies were not required and so I had to leave. Needless to say, I was a little irritated because I thought that my stay would be enjoyable. However, it did not curtail my Latin American activities and I have returned to Cuba many times since. Not only have I returned, but the Shell company, whose service I left more than 35 years ago, is also back there in action. It is looking to the future and not to the past, which is the case with so many companies.
At the time the revolution appeared to be entirely justified because it was replacing a wholly corrupt regime which had been in existence for some time. The Cuban Revolution espoused the notion of creating a pure socialist state, and because of circumstances, the Cubans were much encouraged in that by their subsequent linkage with the Soviet Union. When I was a young man at school, I thought that the notion of a pure socialist state was rather a good idea but many years of working all over the world has taught me that it does not work quite as well as I thought at that time. I have no doubt that the noble Lord, Lord Peston, might agree with that concept.
The Cubans were encouraged in that and to a certain extent had no alternative because the US policy was flawed from the beginning. The embargo that was created gave them no alternative, so that that linkage with the Soviet Union, which appeared to be so beneficial, turned out to be something of a millstone around their necks for so long. Indeed, those of us who visited Cuba in the interim period from time to time trying to do trade found that there was not much that we could do. There was nothing on offer because Cuba had that artificial trading system.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Soviet system, all that has changed and Cuba now has the option of trading with the whole world. That is what is so exciting and that is why the initiatives that have been taken and followed up by my noble friend Lady Young are so important.
I turn to Helms-Burton because that has been mentioned already and is bound to be mentioned again. That is a scandalous piece of extra-territorial legislation. It is absolutely contrary to the whole concept and idea of the WTO and for the world's leading economic power to conduct itself in that way is absolutely absurd.
I do not know what can be done about it because my understanding is that it is almost impossible to repeal legislation under the US constitutional system. I do not know whether that is correct and I do not know whether my noble and learned friend can answer that. However, perhaps he will inquire from his friends in the Foreign Office as to how the US can possibly repeal that legislation, because the idea that every six months it will be postponed indefinitely is absurd. Nobody can live in that sort of situation. Where do we go from there? How will the US get out of that hole into which it seems to have dug itself? It may be that when the WTO has its
In the meantime, Cuba is very busy cultivating its new relationships, because obviously it has a great deal of support in those activities from the whole of Latin America and from the NAFTA countries of Mexico and Canada and, indeed, from the whole of the European Community. The United Kingdom has been in the vanguard of all that. We have pioneered the way. There have been missions by my noble friend Lady Young and others and visits by Ministers. As my noble friend Lady Young said, we have a first-class embassy there led by a superb ambassador for whom no praise is too high and who really does understand what is going on.
As a result of all these activities, a good number of very spectacular opportunities have opened up. But what is the result of all those opportunities being opened up? We have pioneered the way, as my noble friend's figures illustrate, but our European partners will reap the rewards because we have no government support. There is no ECGD cover. The French have credits; the Germans have credits; the Italians have credits; the Spanish have credits; and where are we? It is an absolutely deplorable situation.
I hope that my noble and learned friend will say something extremely positive about this. If he cannot give us an affirmative decision this evening, which may well be the case, I hope that he will talk to his colleagues and persuade them that something must be done about it forthwith because otherwise, not only will the opportunity be lost to which my noble friend Lady Young referred, but many other opportunities are also going out of the window. I wonder what is the point of the visits of my noble friend or anybody else if they have no proper back-up.
I turn now to the European Union because in the early part of last year the European Commissioner responsible for international affairs visited Cuba with the idea of negotiating a co-operation agreement but the Cubans did not like the conditions imposed upon them at the time. When I was in Cuba in August, I spent quite a lot of time discussing the matter with them. I pointed out that when there is an international agreement, conditions are always imposed. I remember talking to the Cubans. They said that they had no dealings with either the Inter-American Development Bank or the IMF. They told me that they disliked those two institutions. I told them that many other countries in Latin America and around the world also disliked those institutions but as time developed they found it necessary to make adjustments in order to obtain the benefits. I told them that all international banking and loan arrangements are always subject to conditions. Anybody here who wishes to have a loan is subject to conditions. That is the normal procedure. I believe that the Cubans are beginning to think about the real world in which they now live. Conditions are always imposed in order to obtain benefits. They may not like it initially, but it is something which they must come to accept as a necessity if they are to live in the real world in which they now find themselves.
It is also encouraging to think that at the last meeting of the European Union's economic and finance Ministers--known as ECOFIN--a policy was adopted,
Before I close, I should like to make one further point. My noble friend Lady Young suggested that Dr. Lage should come on a visit here. I have met Dr. Lage. He is a quite brilliant young man. I believe that it is a splendid idea. Indeed, not only should Dr. Lage come here on an official visit but so should many other Ministers. I hope that my noble and learned friend will not only encourage this but that he will also encourage others to do likewise. The idea of a concept of a deeper, better and more profound relationship with Cuba is something which we must all welcome and to which we must look forward.
9.8 p.m.
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"to encourage a process of transition to pluralist democracy".
That implies that there is now a specific policy towards Cuba in the EU which is a very new development. I hope that that will lead to further visits from the EU Commission so that the co-operation agreement can come back into existence because it would certainly be very beneficial to Cuba; and, indeed, to the EU, of which we are a major and important part.
9.21 p.m.
Lord Kennet: My Lords, may I begin by saying how convinced I am, from direct acquaintance with it, that the work being carried out by the noble Baroness, Lady Young, as chairman of the steering committee of the Cuba Initiative is extremely valuable. I count myself very fortunate to be associated with her. In point of fact, I do not believe that I have ever before known of such a body. I think it may be a little atypical.
It is an organisation within which there is a representative of each of the two major parties from this House, the purpose of which is mainly to encourage and give political edge to an interface between government departments and British firms as regards what to do next, and between the bureaucracy of this country and the European bureaucracies. Our voices get heard--at any rate, that of the noble Baroness does. When it is looked at retrospectively by whatever government are in power to see whether it is worth doing, it may be that this form of organisation will be found to be worth expanding for use in other circumstances.
The noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, said much that I would have said if he had not said it. I shall not dwell on the position of the United States in the world. However, I should like to dwell for a moment on the position of Helms-Burton as a political/constitutional phenomenon within the United States. It goes not only against international law, because, as is perfectly obvious--indeed, it has been for I should have thought about eight or nine centuries now--you cannot go charging businessmen of a third country who happen to be in your country because they have been trading with another country which you happen to dislike. The principle is pretty well enshrined. You cannot go excluding businessmen from your territory because they had dealings with another country. All that is completely beyond the pale of international law.
And now a case has arisen in that respect which shows pretty clearly that the Helms-Burton Act is producing results which are unconstitutional in the
United States. The case is that of Mr. Tom Johnson who is the President of CNN. Of course, the latter is not known as a great friend of American governments; but, equally, it is not known to be a particular enemy of them. Nevertheless, Mr. Tom Johnson has had an experience which he says beggars comparison with the experience he had with Chinese bureaucracy when he tried to set up a CNN operation in China.The experience was as follows. Mr. Johnson wanted to set up an operation in Cuba and was informed that in order to do so he must have a licence--presumably under Helms-Burton--a kind of waiver which should ensure that he would not be imprisoned. But he was told that he would not be granted such a licence. If one looks further into the background--Mr. Johnson has said this publicly--one sees that the reason apparently is that the proprietor of the Miami Herald, which is the chosen newspaper of the hundreds of thousands of Right-inclined Cuban refugees in Florida, has kicked up a political storm about the matter. He has said that he wants to keep his monopoly of reporting on Cuban reality to the American people. Such is the weight of the Florida vote that he is winning the day and CNN is to be excluded.
I seem to remember that the American constitution was amended for the first time in the direction of the freedom of the press. This is a direct denial by the American Government of the right enjoyed by one of its citizens to go to another country and report home on what is going on. That in itself is almost as important as the trade shenanigans. Such action is against the first amendment to the American constitution as well as being against the WTO and the rest of it. I hope that under the guidance of the noble Baroness we shall be able to--
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