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The Lord Chancellor (Lord Mackay of Clashfern): My Lords, as your Lordships know, it fell to Sir Michael as Clerk of the Parliaments to guide me in my Woolsack duties over the time when he occupied that office. To the extent to which I followed that guidance I got it right; to the extent to which I neglected to follow it I got it wrong. The guidance was always delivered with that wisdom and fine humour of which so many of your Lordships have already spoken.
I regard Sir Michael and his wife as great friends. I join with those noble Lords who have expressed for them the very best of happiness, good health and prosperity in the years ahead.
On Question, Resolution agreed to nemine dissentiente; it was ordered that the Lord Chancellor do communicate this resolution to the said Sir Michael Addison John Wheeler-Booth, KCB.
Then, the then Leader of the House having informed the House on 31st October last that Her Majesty had, by Letters Patent, appointed John Michael Davies, Esquire, to the Office of Clerk of the Parliaments, in the place of Sir Michael Addison John Wheeler-Booth, KCB, the Letters Patent were read. The said John Michael Davies, Esquire, made the prescribed declaration (which declaration is set down in the Roll among the oaths of the great officers) in terms as follows:
- "I, John Michael Davies, do declare that I will be true and faithful and troth I will bear to Our Sovereign Lady the Queen and to Her Heirs and Successors. I will nothing know that shall be prejudicial to Her Highness Her Crown Estate and Dignity Royal, but that I will resist it to my power and with all speed I will advertise Her Grace thereof, or at the least some of Her Counsel in such wise as the same may come to Her knowledge. I will also well and truly serve Her Highness in the Office of Clerk of Her Parliaments making true Entries and Records of the things done and passed in the same. I will keep secret all such matters as shall be treated in Her said Parliaments and not disclose the same before they shall be published, but to such as it ought to be disclosed unto, and generally I will well and truly do and execute all things belonging to me to be done appertaining to the Office of Clerk of the Parliaments."
After which he took his seat at the Table.
Clerk Assistant of the Parliaments
The Lord Chancellor: My Lords, I beg to move the first Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
In accordance with the Statement made by me on 31st October last, I have appointed Mr. Paul David Grenville Hayter to be Clerk Assistant in place of Mr. John Michael Davies, appointed Clerk of the Parliaments. I therefore beg to move.
Moved, That this House do approve the appointment by the Lord Chancellor, pursuant to the Clerk of the Parliaments Act 1824, of Paul David Grenville Hayter, Esquire, to be Clerk Assistant of the Parliaments in place of John Michael Davies, Esquire, appointed Clerk of the Parliaments.--(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Motion agreed to nemine dissentiente.
Reading Clerk and Clerk of Outdoor Committees
The Lord Chancellor: My Lords, I beg to move the second Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
In accordance with the Statement made by me on 31st October last, I have appointed Mr. Michael Graham Pownall to be Reading Clerk and Clerk of Outdoor Committees in place of Mr. Paul David Grenville Hayter, appointed Clerk Assistant. I therefore beg to move.
Moved, That this House do approve the appointment by the Lord Chancellor, pursuant to the Clerk of the Parliaments Act 1824, of Michael Graham Pownall, Esquire, as Reading Clerk and Clerk of Outdoor
Committees of the House in place of Paul David Grenville Hayter, Esquire, appointed Clerk Assistant.--(The Lord Chancellor.)On Question, Motion agreed to nemine dissentiente.
Rwandan Refugees: Assistance
3.12 p.m.
Lord Judd asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What is their latest estimate of the number of refugees and displaced persons in each of Rwanda, Burundi, Zaire, Tanzania and Uganda; and what progress is being made towards a regional settlement.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey): My Lords, about 1 million refugees have returned from Zaire and Tanzania to Rwanda over the past three months. UNHCR reports that there are about 260,000 refugees in Tanzania; more than 500,000 in Zaire; and almost 60,000 in total in Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi. In addition, there are about 250,000 people internally displaced in Zaire and more than 200,000 in Burundi. We support the efforts of regional leaders who are working for an international conference under UN and OAU auspices.
Lord Judd: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Will she be assured that she has the support of this House in doing everything possible to meet the great humanitarian need in the Great Lakes area? Has the Minister been able to study the report of the UN Commission last month on eastern Zaire, which identified 300,000 refugees, displaced people and Zaireans living in grim conditions? Specifically, what is being done to help those people in their plight? Similarly, what is being done to protect those compulsorily returned from Tanzania, particularly those whose lives are at risk in Burundi where unfortunate and large-scale killings have already taken place?
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, having returned only two days ago, I have not yet had the opportunity to read the UN report. However, from what I know about those in eastern Zaire, I can advise the noble Lord that the non-governmental organisations, supported by governments such as ours, are doing their very best to help. We shall take further action as such action becomes possible. Our ambassador in Kigali is visiting Bujumbura at the moment, as are other representatives who are active in the field in eastern Zaire. We shall be able to take the necessary action when we have their reports.
On the point about compulsory returns from Tanzania and the very sad news that members of the Burundi army killed 124 people in Muyinga on Friday night, there is no doubt that that is a deeply regrettable incident, which the government of Burundi have admitted. They have sent a team to undertake an immediate investigation and have said that those responsible will be dealt with severely. We have no
further details at the moment, but the international community and the government of Burundi are determined that there should be no repeat of that sort of behaviour.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, has the Minister noted the reports that foreign mercenaries have been gathering in Kisangani with a view to attempting to recapture eastern Zaire in collaboration with the Zairean Army? Would the Minister support proposals that the OAU should send a special envoy to Kisangani to make inquiries about the presence of the mercenaries and, if necessary, bring the matter to the attention of the Security Council?
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, we are aware of press reports of mercenary activity in eastern Zaire. Indeed, last week when I was in Angola we received other reports of mercenary activity in other parts of Zaire. We deplore any such activity. We are certainly not aware of any French military intervention, as has been intimated. We have been working closely with the French and our other European partners towards a regional political solution. There is no doubt that the OAU and the UN must work together to make sure that such reports are not true and that those responsible are not allowed to get away with any such activity, if such activity does take place even on a small scale.
Lord Rea: My Lords, when is the interdepartmental inquiry into the involvement of a British firm in selling arms to renegade Rwandan forces to take place? I understand that that was supposed to have been reported to both Houses by 19th December.
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, I cannot give the noble Lord a specific answer; but I shall write to him with the answer which I shall make available to other noble Lords also.
Lord Judd: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the fundamental need is to have a political settlement in the Great Lakes region as a whole? The noble Baroness has indicated that the Government are determined to support the initiatives of Julius Nyerere, Nelson Mandela and other regional heads of government. What action are the British Government taking to try to build a common approach with the French Government on a solution which can encompass both Francophone and Anglophone countries in the area?
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, the Assistant Under-Secretary for Africa was in Paris shortly before Christmas for talks about those very matters. Other exchanges are also taking place with our French colleagues. However, it is not enough just for British and French diplomats and humanitarian workers to be in agreement; there has to be agreement between all those who may be involved in some way positively--or even negatively--in the events that have taken place in the Great Lakes region. That is why we should welcome the initiative taken by Presidents Moi,
Mandela, Mugabe and Biya. I believe that following the Nairobi summit that will help us to build the sort of peace which may be lasting in that region.
Lord Dubs: My Lords, does the Minister agree that given the number of refugees who have been returned to Rwanda, that country needs a great deal of additional help with its reconstruction? In particular, does the Minister agree that there is a need for more human rights monitors in that country and a need to rebuild its judiciary? Can the Government give any additional help?
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