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Lord Richard: No, wait, my Lords, there is more to come! The names should be kept confidential in order to ensure that there could be no suggestion that the making of donations might be intended or might in practice operate so as to exert influence or secure favour. Therefore, the position is that people contribute to the trust; the trust then distributes the money to the Leader's office; and that money is then registered in the register of Members' interests. Furthermore, that arrangement was put before Sir Gordon Downey, who approved it.
I also say to the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, that we are perfectly happy and content that that arrangement and any other relating to Labour Party funding should be submitted to an independent inquiry such as that requested in the Motion. Let the committee look at the arrangement and if there is anything wrong it will tell us. I have heard nothing from the other side tonight which will match that offer--that is, putting the whole issue of Conservative Party funding to an independent scrutiny. If the other side will say that, I shall be most interested indeed. We are prepared to do it. We have nothing to hide so far as this is concerned. I have put the facts in front of the House and I am perfectly content that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Nolan, should judge them. I hope that that will be the position on the other side, too.
Baroness Byford: My Lords, I rise to my feet only because the noble Lord named me again. I am sure that the noble Lord will correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the people who have contributed are
not named, nor is the amount that they have given. As I said, I do not find that difficult if the noble Lord accepts that the same principle applies to people who donate to us. But the noble Lord does not appear to do so and perhaps he could clarify the matter for a newcomer to the House.
Lord Richard: My Lords, I thought that I had clarified the matter. We were advised by the two silks that in order to ensure that there could be no allegation of over-connection or sleaze, the two issues should be kept separate. And they are kept separate. If the noble and learned Lord, Lord Nolan, considers that we should be doing something different, we are perfectly prepared to do so. However, if after examination an independent committee says to us, "We believe that you should do it in another way", we shall be perfectly prepared to do it in another way. I have heard nothing to match that coming from the other side of the House tonight.
I return to the two issues in the debate: first, is there a problem; and, secondly, if there is a problem, what should be done about it? Contrary to some of the speeches we have heard today, there is in my view and in the view of an increasing number of people in the country a widespread perception that all is not well.
Let us consider the position of the two major parties on this issue. In its submission to the Nolan Committee, the Labour Party set out its attitude. It called for (this is our policy):
- "a new regime for the funding of political parties to include: full disclosure of their accounts; proscriptions on overseas and large secret donations; limits on election spending at national as well as constituency level; new requirements for shareholder agreement, and contracting out, in respect of donations by companies".
We are in favour of much greater disclosure and transparency. As the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, said in the course of his speech, disclosure and transparency are important qualities in the democratic process. Otherwise, there is a question mark about the validity of a great deal of what one of the parties may be saying. We are in favour of proscribing overseas donations and large secret donations. That is a proscription which works well in many other countries, including the United States and Australia. So that is where we stand.
Let us look at where the Conservative Party stands. To say the least, it is shadowy. We know that it was in serious financial difficulties a few years ago. We know too that donations from public companies have declined. As has been pointed out, those companies have an obligation to disclose political donations in their accounts so if the accounts of all the public companies are checked, the political donations to the Conservative Party by those companies can be traced.
If that is so, where does the money come from to build up the Conservatives' alleged war chest of £26 million? Who gave the money and under what terms? Of course, people are entitled to make donations to political parties; but in our view, any donation to the election fund over a certain figure should be made public. We believe that figure should be £5,000 and
anything over that should be made public. The fact is that we do not know how the Conservative Party is being financed, although from time to time certain facts emerge from the shadows.It is reported to have received £1 million from Mr. Botnar. Did it? Perhaps the noble Viscount the Lord Privy Seal will tell us whether it did receive £1 million from Mr. Botnar. It is reported to have received significant donations from the jailed BCCI fraudster, Mr. Viriani. Did it? And if so, how much? We know that it received money from Asil Nadir because that emerged in the course of liquidation. As I understand it, that money has not been repaid despite the fact that there is clear evidence that £365,000 of it was stolen. Does the Conservative Party intend to repay that money? We have heard it say from time to time that of course it will repay it and we even heard it said that tainted money would be repaid without any consideration of popularity or unpopularity. But it would be nice to know that the cheques have gone back and that the Conservative Party was actually doing something to repay the people who were defrauded of the money that was stolen from them by Mr. Nadir. What on earth is the Conservative Party doing taking that sort of money? It seems to me to be thoroughly unhealthy and disreputable.
We know too that in 1995-96, the Conservative Party raised £18.82 million from donations. Central Office accounts showed a 47 per cent. increase in donations for the year ending 31st March 1996 from £12.73 million to £18.82 million--a large jump. Where did it come from? When one is talking about sums running into millions of pounds and when the Government are presenting themselves to the country at an election, it is not unreasonable to know who has put more than £5 million into the coffers of the Conservative Party when it is fighting that election.
We have heard about the existence of strange clubs. I gather that the Premier Club has two tiers of membership. For £10,000 per year, ordinary members get supper with Cabinet Ministers, including, occasionally, the Deputy Prime Minister. That is rather pricey at £10,000, but I suppose that if you want to make a donation and dine with Mr. Heseltine, that is the price of it. But for £100,000, you get two dinners a year with the Prime Minister, Mr. Major. I am told that other benefits are special hospitality at the annual conference; a policy information service; detailed briefings on key issues such as the economy, trade and industry and taxation.
For more normal people, there is something called the Millennium Club where you only have to pay £2,500 per year but you do not get Mr. Heseltine and you certainly do not get near the Prime Minister. For that you get the promise of:
- "a unique networking opportunity ... to meet and interact with senior ministers at lunches, receptions and private functions".
The one which I find to be extraordinary and disreputable is something called the Dragon Club. As I understand it, it was set up quite deliberately to raise
money in the Far East for the Conservative Party. All that carries with it an unmistakable odour of sleaze and corruption.The noble Lord, Lord Harris of Greenwich, delved slightly into the honours list. I wish to say one or two things about it. If that list is examined, it can be seen that a high proportion of recipients of a knighthood are personal donors to or are closely associated with companies which have contributed to the Conservative Party. Under the premiership of the noble Baroness, Lady Thatcher, from 1979 to the Birthday Honours List of 1990, there were 173 honours which went to industry. Of those, 112 were to donors to the Conservative Party; that is, 65 per cent. of all honours. Under the present Prime Minister, from 1991 to the New Year's Honours List of 1995, 53 honours went to industry, of which 36 were donors to the Conservative Party--that is, 68 per cent. of all the honours. I suppose that it could be argued that it is a remarkable person who gives money to the Conservative Party and so, because of his remarkable nature, ought to be recognised by the gift of a knighthood. That takes a lot of swallowing and I am extraordinarily sceptical about those figures and the implications which clearly arise from them.
It seems to me that if one believes in greater transparency in government, on any view of the matter, there is a problem here. As the noble Earl, Lord Russell, said, there is a case to answer. The real question for this debate should be who is to do the investigation. My own preference would be a reference to the Nolan Committee. That committee has expressed the view that party funding needs to be looked at, although in May 1995, the committee decided that it would not be within its present terms of reference to examine the overall nature of party-political funding and, for example, to address such other questions as to whether state funding of political parties would be desirable.
Perhaps I may say in parenthesis here that this is not a debate about the state funding of political parties. It is a debate about whether the funding of British politics should be looked at by an independent body. That is the issue and I suggest to the House that that case has been proved.
However, the Nolan Committee said that it would put aside the issue of political funding for the time being but it added that after the next election, it would consider again whether to examine that subject. It concluded that if funds were being given to a political party in exchange for the receipt of favours from holders of public office, that would fall within the committee's remit. That is an issue which is becoming increasingly urgent for independent examination.
That issue should be looked at by a body like the Nolan Committee, which has a proven track record of independence and integrity. While I am conscious of the fact that there might be political difficulties in a straight reference to the Nolan Committee, I feel that in principle the decision should be taken and the
political difficulties, such as the terms of its mandate or the possible composition of the committee, should be examined, clarified and resolved.I have found this to be a revealing debate. I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Laing and Lord Beaverbrook, two of the major participants in the affairs at which we are looking today, for their contributions to the debate. The debate has revealed the fact that the Conservative Party is secretive about the sources of its funding--excessively so. It has revealed also that the majority opinion of those who have spoken in the debate consider that that is unhealthy for British democracy. We shall support the Liberals in the Lobby this evening.
5.49 p.m.
Viscount Cranborne: My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins of Hillhead, has reminded us, we last addressed this important subject on 7th June 1995. I believe that I am right in recalling that in my reply then I forecast that we would return to the question of party funding; and, indeed, thanks to the noble Lord's admirable persistence, we have done so today. Like everyone else who has participated in the interesting proceedings this afternoon, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord for that.
I am also grateful for another reason. Like his noble friend Lord Russell, I, in particular, hope that his party's policy for reform of this House will not succeed. In the light of today's entertaining remarks, my principal emotion for wishing that this afternoon is that it would deprive the noble Lord of the opportunity to drag his knowledge of 19th-century history into ad hominem teasing of representatives of the hereditary peerage in your Lordships' House.
Before turning to the substance of the debate, it would be remiss of me not to draw your Lordships' attention to the character of the Motion before us. I believe that I am right in saying that it is divisible. As my noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway noted, the Motion is very different in character from the Motions we normally debate on Wednesdays. I hope that the Whole House will ponder for just a while on what the implications are both for the character of our Wednesday debates and, indeed, for any future debates on Wednesdays if we are to persist in this and if we are to take this as a precedent. I, for one, hope that this will be an exception rather then the thin end of the wedge. I am glad to see the noble Lord, Lord Richard, nodding his head. I assume from that that he will not be following the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, into the Division Lobby tonight.
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