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Baroness Park of Monmouth: My Lords, has any effort been made to approach the Arab states, because this is largely an Arab and Islamic problem? Secondly, what have we done to stop the import of chemical
weapons? Thirdly, is the appalling practice of letting the Government of Sudan distribute aid and force people to change to Islam continuing?
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, the moderate Islamic states are as concerned about Sudan as we are. Some of them are trying hard to help. I shall reply to my noble friend in writing on the other three questions.
Great Lakes Region: Aid
2.55 p.m.
Lord Judd asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What is their latest assessment of the humanitarian needs in the Great Lakes region of Africa, what response they are making, and what action they are taking to ensure the appropriate total response by the international community.
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, since 1993 Britain has committed more than £178 million to the Great Lakes region bilaterally and through the EU. UNHCR estimates that there are about 750,000 refugees in the region, of whom 200,000 are in eastern Zaire, together with substantial numbers of internally displaced people. Access and security remain major constraints to meeting their basic human needs.
Lord Judd: My Lords, does the Minister agree that with the evidence of the fighting now in northern Uganda, the continuing civil war in Zaire, the accelerating flow of refugees into Sudan, the renewed violence in Rwanda and the continued killing in Burundi, the humanitarian and security challenges remain immense? What are the Government doing to ensure that the Security Council does not repeat its grave failures of short-termism towards the Great Lakes in the past, and that it puts all possible diplomatic and other resources into working for an overall regional political settlement; into addressing the underlying causes of these conflicts, especially the grotesque poverty; and into assisting humanitarian agencies to gain access to those at risk, both to protect and to support them?
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that the problems are immense. By appointing Mohamed Sahnoun as the special representative--he is also the special representative of the OAU to the Great Lakes region--the new Secretary General has taken an important step forward. He is working with Mrs. Ogata, and with the DHA, to ensure that access for the agencies is improved. Mrs. Ogata told me last night that that is indeed happening.
Lord Thomson of Monifieth: My Lords, in view of the agonising difficulty of finding practical ways to mitigate the tragedy in Burundi, Rwanda and the Great Lakes region, does the Minister agree that the BBC's World Service Great Lakes helpline is making a useful contribution? Is she aware that it is funded by British aid organisations, with the support of the Minister's own ODA, and that uniquely it manages to
provide a service in the local languages of Kinyarwanda and Kirundi? It is the trusted way in which efforts are made to put separated children back in touch with their parents.
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, I am aware of the Great Lakes helpline. I am extremely grateful to the World Service for a first class example of how to try to resolve some of the tragedies caused by the division of families during war. I am obviously aware of it because we partly fund the process. It is something which can be tried in other places. I am grateful to the World Service for having started the project.
Viscount Brentford: My Lords, will my noble friend tell the House whether she sees any way ahead for separating the Interahamwe from the genuine refugees both inside Rwanda and inside the refugee areas.
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, the only way that one can satisfactorily separate the Interahamwe--the Hutu rebels who left Rwanda and went to Zaire--from the innocents is to see whether they are willing to give up the arms which many of them still possess and return as normal refugees to their country of birth. The vast majority are not so willing and, as a result, will probably find themselves spending the rest of their days in Zaire. They have moved much further westwards into Zaire. Conditions are difficult, although somehow the development and aid agencies are getting through to them and access is gradually improving. But every convoy has to be negotiated. So it is a major task.
Lord Judd: My Lords, will the Minister clarify one point? In her talks with the High Commissioner for Refugees last night, was she able to indicate that we are going to give any additional support to the UNHCR in what it is trying to do for those who are trapped in Zaire?
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, Mrs. Ogata did not ask me last night for additional help. We discussed the situation and what could be done politically. That is the best help that we can give at the moment. I remind the noble Lord that since 1993 we have spent £178 million in the region. That is one of the best records anywhere.
The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, will the Minister say what response she has given to Emma Bonino who, as European Union Humanitarian Affairs Commissioner, expressed many misgivings and described the present international response as a scandal and wholly inadequate?
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, I have not spoken with Emma Bonino in the past week but her comments that improving access for aid convoys is a priority for us all are absolutely right. We have supported her in that respect. But it is not helpful to the situation for each commentator to inflame the situation or blow it up even more. We must get on with the job, and that is what Britain is doing.
Royal Naval College, Greenwich
3 p.m.
Baroness Young asked Her Majesty's Government:
- When they expect to announce the list of those who will serve on Sir Angus Stirling's committee, which is to consider the future of the Royal Naval College, Greenwich.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe): My Lords, the body chaired by Sir Angus Stirling will be called the Greenwich Foundation for the Royal Naval College and is being registered as a charitable company limited by guarantee. I am pleased to announce that its other trustees will be Sir Benjamin Bathurst; Sir Franklin Berman; Councillor Len Duvall, leader of the London Borough of Greenwich; Sir David Cooksey; Professor Thomas Kempner; Richard MacCormac; Margaret Richardson and Christopher Swinson. We are most grateful for their agreement to serve in that role. The foundation will benefit greatly from their wealth of naval, business, financial, heritage, architectural and educational expertise.
Baroness Young: My Lords, I thank my noble friend very much indeed for that most welcome Answer. First, I declare an interest as the Chancellor of the University of Greenwich. Will my noble friend assure me that the new body will move with speed towards arrangements for the University of Greenwich's sub-tenancy of the naval college following the recommendations of the committee set up under the chairmanship of Dame Jennifer Jenkins? The university is particularly anxious to achieve a settlement as regards HMS "Dreadnought", the old seamen's hospital.
Earl Howe: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. The foundation is in discussion with the University of Greenwich about its plans for occupation of the site. Naturally, the foundation will want to satisfy itself that the plans are viable before entering into a legal agreement. However, it is now for the foundation to take forward that work. I know that Sir Angus Stirling is conscious of the importance of the issue to the university.
With regard to the "Dreadnought" building, although I should like to assist my noble friend as far as possible, there is little definite that I can say at this stage. There is no direct Ministry of Defence interest in that building, but the director of the Greenwich hospital is in negotiation with the University of Greenwich in regard to its future.
Lord Taylor of Blackburn: My Lords, why is there no representative of the University of Greenwich among the members of the trustees?
Earl Howe: My Lords, the simple answer is that there may well be a conflict of interest should the university become a sub-tenant. However, we have ensured that there is educational expertise on the board of directors.
Lord Williams of Elvel: My Lords, in view of the national importance of this matter and on the assumption
that the committee will make its recommendations during the next Parliament, what consultations were there with the Opposition on the membership which the noble Earl has just announced?
Earl Howe: My Lords, I am not aware of any obligation on the part of the Government to consult Her Majesty's Opposition on a matter of this kind. I believe that the board of directors has wide experience and an absolutely unobjectionable range of expertise which will be brought to the table in this very important enterprise.
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