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Lord Ackner: The principal purpose of a sentence of imprisonment is obviously to punish--that is, retribution--but that punishment provides a possibility for the protection of the public in two ways. First, it disables the prisoner for as long as he is in prison from committing further offences, that is obvious. Secondly, there could be an element of deterrence in relation to that particular prisoner. He may learn, by loss of liberty, that crime does not pay. But excepting the life sentence, with which we are not concerned, the prisoner is going to come out of prison at the end of his sentence. If the public are to be properly protected, every well run prison system will contain facilities for the education and training of the prisoner so that when he comes out at the end of his sentence he will be better equipped for leading an honest life.
But the rehabilitation prospects and possibilities in prison should not end there. There should be rehabilitation prospects out of prison under supervision, that is where the parole system comes in. The person, having left prison--one hopes better equipped--is then supervised in order that he may better settle down to the difficult situation after a period of imprisonment of earning his livelihood.
The present system of parole has the following obvious strengths. First, it is clear and intelligible; secondly, it ensures that every day of the sentence pronounced by the court has practical content--one half in prison, one quarter thereafter under supervision and one quarter at risk of recall if there is an offence. Thirdly, it enables offenders to be reintroduced into the community conditionally. Fourthly, it enables decisions on the release of more serious offenders to be based on the experienced judgment of an independent body of experts. Fifthly, it enables offenders whose behaviour in the community causes concern to be recalled quickly and with the minimum of legal formality and delay. Sixthly, it avoids the prolonged incarceration of those whom it is judged are safe to release. Penultimately, it is a regime which has worked well in practice. Finally, the validity of the research that has led to its adoption has not been in any way impugned.
All of the factors that I have spelt out in numbers were included in one paragraph in the speech of my noble and learned friend the Lord Chief Justice at Second Reading. He ended by asking,
- "One asks why such a system so recently instituted is to be cast aside".--[Official Report, 27/1/97; col. 984.]
We have been given no reason. I can therefore only venture to suggest that the answer is to be found in one of the soundbites in one of the Minister's speeches to the party faithful; namely,
- "no more half time sentences for full time crimes".
That sounded very much as though the four-year sentence in future would involve four years' imprisonment, but that has been totally cast to one side. The Minister, so to speak, having been hoist with his own petard--half-time sentences are to continue--had to do something to satisfy what he perceived to be public indignation. This is the way he achieves it. In my respectful submission, he achieves it at the risk of considerable prejudice to public safety.
4 p.m.
Lord Elton: This has been called a declaratory clause and the speeches so far have all been declaratory of position. Like my noble friend Lord Belstead, I await with great interest the declaration of the Government's position by my noble friend on the Front Bench.
I rise to ask only three short questions. The first is technical. What would be the effect on the whole of Chapter I of Part II of the Bill of deleting this clause from the Bill at this stage? If it would render it inoperable or ineffective, then it is proper to ask the next question; namely, how is the recall system going to work? We are told that we are looking for greater protection of the public. At present, under licence or parole, a prisoner can be taken straight back to prison on breach of his terms. In Clause 14 I see that breach of the terms is elevated to a criminal offence which is triable. What will happen to the ex-prisoner who has demonstrated himself to be a risk to the public by breaching his terms between the breach and the trial? Either we shall have a lot of people on remand, adding to overcrowding, or we shall have a lot of people at large adding to public risk.
I suppose that my final question should be addressed to my noble friend Lord Carlisle. I listened carefully but I may have missed a reference in his speech to Clause 22 on continuity of sentencing. That clause begins:
- "This section has effect for the purpose of securing that, where a person is sentenced to a term of imprisonment in respect of an offence ... to which this section applies; and ... which is committed after the commencement of this Chapter, he serves approximately the same time in prison as he would have served if the offence had been committed immediately before that commencement".
If anything is declaratory, that is. It declares that the Government's intention is that the prison population shall not be affected and that the courts shall take care to see that it is not so affected. My noble friend is going to illuminate this matter in a moment, for which I am profoundly thankful. As I shall not rise again after he has sat down, I merely say to the Minister that the question of recall is one of many matters about which I am anxious and I very much look forward to her reply.
Lord Ackner: Before the noble Lord sits down, does he agree that recall is operative not only for a breach of a condition but if there is good reason to anticipate that a condition will be breached?
Lord Elton: I was anxious not to become involved in a debate on the merits of the Probation Service, which I should do happily if I had longer. The noble and learned Lord has added a dimension to what I asked.
Lord Carlisle of Bucklow: I welcome the declaratory nature of Clause 22. I thought that I had made that clear. My concern is that there is reference to 66 per cent., which means a built-in 11 per cent. increase. My further concern is as to whether it can be achieved. But the declaration that sentences should not increase automatically if one moves to real-time sentencing is a view which I certainly share.
Baroness Blatch: We have heard a series of Second Reading debates on what the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh, has described as a declaratory clause. Moreover, we have had a good deal of debate which impinges on the next group of amendments, because Clause 7 relates to the measures which follow. As has been said, it is an introductory clause. Clause 7 is straightforward and self-explanatory. It provides for the release of prisoners when they have served their sentence. However, it paves the way also for the group of proposals which go under the heading "Honesty in sentencing". It may therefore be helpful if I outline the thinking behind those provisions.
We believe that the public, victims and offenders should know that the sentence passed by the court is the term that the offender can expect to serve. That simple concept is reflected in Clause 7, but it is certainly not what happens at present. The present arrangements are complicated and difficult to understand. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Taylor of Gosforth, said, the present arrangements have the appearance of a charade, with everyone engaged in a calculation of how much
less than the announced sentence will actually be served. It is common knowledge in court that that creates a sort of sport. First one hears what is the sentence and then there is almost a calculator under the Bench which works out how little of the sentence needs to be served in custody.The present arrangements mean also that the vast majority of prisoners can walk away from prison after serving only half of the sentence. The public and in particular the victims are understandably confused and outraged when that happens.
It has been pointed out that the present arrangements for parole and automatic early release were introduced as recently as 1992. Of course, that is true. They were a substantial improvement on the previous system which in substance dated back to 1967, as my noble friend said. However, we believe now that it is time for a more radical overhaul of early release arrangements and that our proposals offer real advantages over the present system.
Perhaps I may explain why that is so. First, the new arrangements mean that the time which prisoners serve matches more closely the sentence imposed by the court. Much has been said--and I think wrongly said--about that being the be-all and end-all of the matter. As the courts sentence now, the custodial part of the sentence will be only up to half the sentence. There is then automatic release at the two-thirds point. That is reflected in the custodial sentence which would be awarded under the present arrangements. But that goes hand in hand with a much better supervision provision which follows sentence.
It will also avoid the current uncertainty which surrounds likely release dates. Prisoners will serve their full sentence, subject to a small discount. The remand time to be credited against sentence will be decided at the point of sentence in open court.
I was interested in the notion that simply spelling out the sentence in court would allay all people's fears and remove confusion. I have taken a simple four-year sentence under the present system and, if I may be so bold, I shall be the judge on this occasion talking to the offender who has been given four years.
I as the judge would say, "I sentence you to four years' imprisonment. You are eligible to be released on parole at the half-way point of the sentence, which is two years, and entitled to be released at the two-thirds point, which is two years and eight months. However, all of those periods will be reduced by whatever time you have already spent on remand, which the Prison Service will determine. You may serve longer if you are awarded additional days for offences against prison discipline. When you are released, you will then remain under the supervision of a probation officer until the three-quarter point of the original sentence, which means that you will be supervised for a maximum of one year and a minimum of four months, although those figures may also alter if you are awarded additional days for disciplinary offences. During the supervision period, you will be liable to be returned to prison if you fail to comply with the terms of your licence or commit an imprisonable offence. For one year you will remain at risk of being returned to prison to serve the
balance of your sentence if you are convicted of an imprisonable offence. And it is fortunate that you are not already serving a sentence for another offence because the position would become even more complicated". I do not believe that spelling out the present system in court would help to allay people's concerns and confusion about the system.Secondly, the provisions in the Bill ensure that there is no automatic release from prison. At present, 94 per cent. of those who go to prison are released automatically, subject only to any additional days awarded for disciplinary offences at the 50 per cent. point of sentence. The provisions in the Bill ensure that early release is earned. There has been concern that the earned early release schemes will be costly and difficult to operate, but they will build on and develop the existing earned privileges scheme which is bedding down very well in the Prison Service.
I say to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, that all the horrors he predicted in terms of the relationship between prison officers and prisoners have not been borne out in practice by the earned privileges scheme. The details of the scheme will be decided in consultation with those who will have to operate it--prison governors. The earned release scheme will provide a positive incentive for good behaviour that does not exist at present. Prison governors will retain the power to award additional days as punishment for disciplinary offences. They will be set against any earned early release days. The system will be more easily understood. For example, a person who is sentenced will be told that he is expected to serve that sentence unless by his own behaviour he earns up to 16 per cent. of earned early release. It is as simple as that.
The arrangements in the Bill will vastly improve the arrangements for post-release supervision. No longer will the length of the supervision period be determined by the point of release, as under the present system. Long term prisoners who receive no parole and are therefore deemed to be the greatest risk to the public are supervised for at most 8 per cent. of sentence under the present system. Under the provisions of the Bill all prisoners who serve sentences of 12 months or more will be supervised for a period equal to 25 per cent. of sentence whenever they are released. This means that high risk offenders who are currently refused parole will be supervised for substantially longer than at present.
In Clause 17 the Bill provides for the extended supervision of sex offenders. It will normally be for 50 per cent. of the sentence or at least for 12 months but it will be extendable to a maximum of 10 years at the discretion of the court. Breach of the conditions of supervision will in future be an arrestable offence. This will enable quick intervention to detain a person who has breached his conditions of supervision and bring him before the court. The court will be able to impose a range of penalties that is not now available. That will include imprisonment for the whole of the outstanding period of supervision. It will also be possible to attach a range of conditions to the release supervising order, in exactly the same way as now when an offender is released on licence. Risk assessments will continue to
be carried out as part of the process of sentence planning and setting the terms of the release supervision order. We believe that this adds up to a coherent and comprehensive package of proposals that offers real improvements on the present arrangements for early release and post-release supervision. We believe that these proposals are more honest and open than the present system and that they provide better protection for the public from potentially dangerous offenders after they are released.Since our deliberations on Thursday of last week I have gone back to the Second Reading debates. I have re-read the deliberations of last Thursday. I have had two very constructive meetings with my noble friend Lord Belstead. I have had a rather shorter meeting with my noble friend Lord Carlisle. I have had discussions with my right honourable friend the Home Secretary. My noble friends have made a point that I believe requires further consideration. As a result of the discussions with my noble friends, I should like to take away the particular point that they make: the value of risk assessment by the Parole Board in determining the release of long-term prisoners. I understand their concerns about the absence of this matter from the present proposals which may not provide the best possible protection for the public.
I am not able to give details because I would like to think about it and possibly table amendments at the next stage of the Bill. However, perhaps I may indicate the kinds of things that I am thinking about. In the case of those who are subject to Parole Board risk assessment under the present system, it is possible at the 84 per cent. point of the sentence for short-term prisoners to be released on the basis of good behaviour. But for those who are considered to be long-term prisoners there would be Parole Board involvement in risk assessment and the determination of the supervision conditions. Therefore, the Parole Board would have an influence on the supervision period that followed a sentence.
However, the very important point is that everything that is contained in the proposals of the Government is post-sentence. All of the supervision arrangements are post-sentence. We believe it is wrong for the Parole Board, the Secretary of State or anybody to re-commit anyone to prison or to impose a sentence of any kind without the involvement of the court. For that reason we want to look at ways of retaining court involvement post-sentence for returning people during prolonged periods of supervision. That would address two issues. First, it would address the particular concerns of my noble friends about the risk that is presented to the public post-release and therefore the involvement of the Parole Board in the question of the safety of releasing someone into the community. Secondly, although I want to think about it further, I believe that it would have some impact on the two-monthly review of those who fall into that category in terms of continuous assessment over what may be a longer term sentence. Nevertheless, I hope that both my noble friends agree, given their experience in these matters, that the behaviour of a prisoner in prison must be material to any risk assessment post-release. Therefore, one cannot ignore behaviour in prison.
I shall look more closely at the particular areas of concern. But I still believe that a more transparent system is one in which a court says to an offender, "This is your sentence. On your behaviour your release will depend. On your possible risk to the public your release will depend". That will depend on the work that is done between this stage and the next stage of the Bill. This Bill exists precisely because of the interests of the public. The noble Lord, Lord McIntosh, said that in a moment he wanted to invite the Committee to consider the interests of society. I believe that the interests of society are reflected by the Government. The rationale for this Bill is the interests of society. The sentencing system appears confusing to the public, especially when the length of sentence is announced in court and they see prisoners coming out of prison as early as halfway through their sentences. The public simply do not understand that. We believe that the interests of the public will be better served by a more honest and transparent system in which the sentence served matches more closely the sentence that is imposed and release will be effected only on the basis of good behaviour. I hope that I shall be able to meet the concerns of my noble friends Lord Belstead and Lord Carlisle that others will be released on the basis of risk assessment, followed by effective periods of supervision, with strong and carefully thought out conditions which will influence their behaviour post-release and mechanisms to return them to custody or impose a range of sentences that can be administered by the courts.
4.15 p.m.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: Before my noble friend sits down, I should like to put a short question. If one assumes that Clause 7 does not stand part, does she agree that that will not have any real effect on Part II? Clause 7 is purely declaratory, is it not?
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