| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, I am inclined to agree with the noble Lord. As I said, it is very difficult. Sadly, juvenile prostitution frequently takes place behind closed doors; we are simply not aware of it.
Baroness Hollis of Heigham: So to speak!
Baroness Blatch: I do not regard it as a matter for hilarity. It is very serious. Young people are being used and abused behind closed doors. Therefore it is very difficult to be accurate about the extent of the problem. The emphasis, wherever we come across juvenile prostitution, is on the care of the juvenile. We are doing what we can. As the noble Lord is aware, we are strengthening sentencing; we are already reviewing the penalties for sex offences; and we are doing what we can to make sure that young people are diverted away from this activity. But there is no straight answer. The matter is very difficult.
Baroness Masham of Ilton: My Lords, is the Minister aware of the report by Barnardos on a project it undertook in Bradford last year? There it found many young girls aged between 13 and 17 who were prostitutes having horrific things done to them by their pimps. What are social services and the police in Bradford doing about the problem?
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, that is probably the most evil trade of all. I refer to pimps, and the way in which they use not only children but adults too. Like Barnardos, we take the matter very seriously. We know from work done in Bradford that young people are inveigled by someone much older. They are daughters whose families in the first instance feel only slight worry about the liaison; eventually, however, the liaison becomes almost ownership of the young person.
The rest of the story is history. We are aware of the work done by Barnardos. We are doing what we can. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, in my first answer, it is mainly a matter of working in a multi-agency way at local level to do what we can to make sure that these young people are protected and diverted away from this type of crime.
Earl Russell: My Lords, will the Minister give the House an assurance that no young person under 18 is forced into prostitution because he or she lacks legal visible means of support?
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, the means of support for people in this country--I shall not say that it is "generous" because I should be shot down in flames, but it is such that nobody needs to resort to prostitution in order to eat and live. We will do what we can to divert people from this evil trade. I give the noble Earl an assurance that it is no part of this Government's policy that people should have to resort to prostitution in order to live.
The Merchant Fleet
3.16 p.m.
Lord Clinton-Davis asked Her Majesty's Government:
- How they account for the fact that the United Kingdom's merchant fleet has fallen from fourth place in the world league table of merchant fleets in 1979 to 29th by the end of 1996; and what steps they propose to take to prevent any further decline.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Viscount Goschen): My Lords, the United Kingdom flagged fleet, along with those of a number of other developed nations, has declined in size for reasons that include changing trade patterns and the emergence of low-cost fleets from the developing world. We will continue to pursue targeted measures to create and maintain the conditions in which British shipping can prosper and compete in international markets.
Lord Clinton-Davis: My Lords, is that not a pathetic response? This Government inherited from the last Labour Government a fleet well in excess of 1,300 ships over 500 gross registered tonnes proudly flying the Red Ensign. Today, on the Government's own figures, it is 377 and is falling. Is the Minister aware that, at a time when there is a substantial upsurge in world shipping, there is a clear need for a strong, vibrant British marine force? Does he accept that this Government, through their neglect over the past 17 years, have failed the nation?
Viscount Goschen: No, my Lords; not surprisingly, I do not accept that for a moment. World trade patterns have changed considerably since then, including those of many other developed nations. One has only to see what has happened to France and Italy, to give just two
examples. We have seen a greater use of low-cost shipping from the developing nations. We have taken measures to address that problem. We have: clamped down on sub-standard shipping; addressed the factors that have caused companies to want to flag out from the UK; introduced targeted measures; increased funding towards the training of UK officers; deregulated; and put in roll-over relief, together with a number of other measures. They were implemented at the request of shipowners. We want to work with them to ensure the best possible conditions.
Lord Monkswell: My Lords, bearing in mind that the Prime Minister has located Britain at the heart of Europe, have the Government decided that we no longer need a merchant navy?
Viscount Goschen: No, my Lords, nothing could be further from the truth.
Lord Greenway: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, while the figures on the Order Paper may appear dire, British-controlled shipping still represents some 11 per cent. of world shipping? While our interest in shipping may have declined somewhat over the years, is it not a fact that British shipping is far from dead and buried? Should we not take considerable pride in the fact that one of our oldest and most famous shipping companies is currently building the largest container ships in the world and is also among the top three cruise shipping companies--an area that has been among the most successful sectors of shipping in recent years?
Viscount Goschen: My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. The UK-owned fleet is much greater than just the UK-flagged fleet. When one includes vessels from the Red Ensign group, including the Isle of Man, it now ranks eighth in the world.
The noble Lord is right to point out that various sectors of the UK shipping industry are prosperous, lean and efficient and compete well with the rest of Europe. One only has to look at the cruise industry, the ferry industry and container ships. In addition, our ports industry is much leaner and more efficient than it used to be.
Lord Clark of Kempston: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, is quite wrong in suggesting that there was nothing wrong with the economy in 1979 when the Government took over a nearly bankrupt country? But does he not agree that, as far as the shipping industry is concerned, the reduction in capital allowances for shipping has in fact contributed to the reduction in our shipping fleet? Would it be a good idea to have a look at capital allowances for the shipping industry?
Viscount Goschen: My Lords, that is a matter that shipowners feel very strongly about. Equally, we have introduced roll-over relief on capital allowances balancing charges, a measure which was sorely needed. We have also introduced the foreign earnings deduction for seafarers who spend up to 183 days in the UK.
We have put forward a number of measures. The shipping industry has welcomed them and now feels that the deregulated climate in the UK, coupled with the strength of the economy generally, is putting the industry in a good position to compete.
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, can the noble Viscount tell us how many ships flying flags of Liberia and other curious places are in fact owned by British companies? Is it the policy of the Government to deregulate down to Liberian standards in order to bring them back?
Viscount Goschen: My Lords, in an Answer to a Written Question from the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, I gave the details that the noble Lord seeks. Essentially, in 1996 there were some 514 ships owned by United Kingdom companies of 500 gross tonnes and over.
The fact is that the face of shipping has changed. Many companies from all over the world have flagged out. One should not necessarily seize upon Liberia as being a low-quality flag. We have high standards in this country and seek to impose them on other countries by a very strong policy of port-state control. We inspect some 30 per cent. of foreign-flagged ships that visit this country. We believe that this policy has been extremely effective in raising standards.
Lord Murray of Epping Forest: My Lords, does the Minister view with equanimity the fact that the Isle of Man has more British tonnage flying its flag than does the UK itself? Does he accept that this has nothing to do with comparative labour costs and everything to do with better financial and fiscal treatment? Is he aware that the Red Ensign, to which he referred, is not waving but drowning?
Viscount Goschen: My Lords, no, I certainly do not accept that. Indeed, I understand that there will be a number of foreign-flagged ferries coming on to the UK register shortly.
Companies appreciate the benefits of operating with the Red Ensign. We want to introduce as many measures as we can, consistent with safety and the investment climate here, to encourage owners to do that.
Next Section
Back to Table of Contents
Lords Hansard Home Page