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Baroness Blatch: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, referred to my right honourable friend in another place and also, I believe, to one of his own colleagues on the Opposition Front Bench in the other place. I say to the noble Lord and to the House that my right honourable friend was not embarrassed. He was very conscious of the genuine and deeply felt concern on the part of those who supported disassembly. My right honourable friend has said--and I repeat it--that the arguments for and against disassembly were finely balanced. He made that point on Tuesday, and I make it again today. The arguments were indeed finely balanced.
This matter has not been easy because it is not an easy subject. Having the responsibility of addressing difficult issues, such as disassembly, falls to the Government and I believe that they have taken the matter extremely seriously. They have listened to the argument and have come to a conclusion.
Perhaps I may join the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh of Haringey, in paying tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. He has indeed shown spirit, as indeed he always does. He is assiduous and he is always consistent. I believe that this House would be the poorer without noble Lords of such spirit. So long may this House act as an effective check and balance on another place, because I believe that that is the role of this House.
This House rightly asked another place to think again, and it has done that. It has sent us a clear view on the issue of disassembly. I have already given the voting record. The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, referred to those who voted in another place. Those who voted and how they voted is a matter of public record. What we do here today is both to consider the issue, which is the subject of the debate, but also to take into account the views expressed in another place, not once but twice, and to ask the question posed by my noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway. It is this. What would be achieved by sending this issue back to another place knowing in advance of doing so that it has expressed an unequivocal view by a large majority? It is very probable that it would do so again. Once again I invite the House not to insist on Amendment No. 8.
4.4 p.m.
On Question, That the House do not insist on their Amendment No. 8 to which the Commons have disagreed for the reason numbered 8A.
Their Lordships divided: Contents, 197; Not-Contents, 24.
Aberdare, L.
Acton, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Balfour, E.
Bath, M.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belstead, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Borrie, L.
Boyd-Carpenter, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridges, L.
Buckinghamshire, E.
Butterfield, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chelmsford, V.
Chesham, L. [Teller.]
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Coleraine, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowley, E.
Cranborne, V. [Lord Privy Seal.] Crickhowell, L.
Cromer, E.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Davidson, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denbigh, E.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundonald, E.
Elles, B.
Erne, E.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gainford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Geraint, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glasgow, E.
Goschen, V.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L.
Hampton, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg, B.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Hughes, L.
Hunt, L.
Inglewood, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kilpatrick of Kincraig, L.
Kimball, L.
Kinnoull, E.
Knollys, V.
Knutsford, V.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lockwood, B.
Long, V.
Lucas, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L. [Lord Chancellor.] Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Monckton of Brenchley, V.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Nelson, E.
Nicol, B.
O'Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Onslow, E.
Oxfuird, V.
Paul, L.
Pender, L.
Peston, L.
Pike, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rankeillour, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Redesdale, L.
Richard, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Romney, E.
Rotherwick, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Seccombe, B.
Serota, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L. [Teller.]
Strathcona and Mount Royal, L.
Suffield, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Terrington, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tollemache, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Westbury, L.
White, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Wise, L.
Wolfson, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.
Blake, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Congleton, L.
Cross, V.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Devonport, V.
Donaldson of Kingsbridge, L.
Erroll, E.
Falkland, V.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Monson, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Rathcavan, L.
Sandwich, E.
Stallard, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L. [Teller.]
Swansea, L. [Teller.]
Thurso, V.
Torphichen, L.
Wrenbury, L.
Zouche of Haryngworth, L.
Resolved in the affirmative, and Motion agreed to accordingly.
4.16 p.m.
12
Clause 6, page 3, line 18, at end insert--
Because the disassembly of pistols would not provide adequate safeguards for the protection of the public.
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do not insist on their Amendment No. 12 to which the Commons have disagreed for the reason numbered 12A.
Moved, That the House do not insist on their Amendment No. 12 to which the Commons have disagreed for the reason numbered 12A.--(Baroness Blatch.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
("(2A) A pistol shall not be a small-calibre pistol for the purposes of this section provided--
(a) the slide assembly or cylinder or other component part specified under subsection (2B) below has been removed and stored on the premises of a licensed pistol club; and
(b) the firearms certificate for the pistol specifies premises other than the licensed pistol club specified in paragraph (a) above at which the remainder of the firearm shall be stored.
(2B) If he is satisfied that it is necessary in the interest of public safety, the Secretary of State may by order specify a component part other than the slide assembly or cylinder to be stored at a licensed club, and may do so in respect of a particular model or type of pistol to which this section applies.
(2C) This section applies to pistols chambered for .22 or smaller rim-fire cartridges.")
The Commons disagreed to this amendment for the following reason--
12A
15
Clause 7, page 4, line 6, leave out from ("to") to end of line 7 and insert ("a condition requiring the pistol to be kept at a licensed pistol club")
Line 2, after 'at' insert 'licensed premises of',
The Commons agreed to this amendment with the following amendment--
15A
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