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Lord Tope: I am grateful to the Minister for his intervention at the beginning of the debate. I have been sitting here as an innocent victim of the groupings, whoever was responsible for them. My party certainly is not. It is always a puzzle for me to know how to follow the noble Lord, Lord Morris. However, I was trying to work out what Amendment No. 90 means. For once I was grateful to have the Minister tell me that the amendment means nothing unless it is taken with Amendment No. 91.
I support most strongly all that the noble Lord, Lord Morris, said. Like him, I have looked at the debate in Standing Committee on 10th December. Unlike him, I could not bring myself to read the reports of all 16 sittings. I have them but I could not quite manage that. However, he is right to say that the debates drew attention, even allowing for a certain degree of
overstatement on these occasions, to matters of considerable concern. To a large extent, that is addressed by the amendment.The nub of the matter is what the noble Lord, Lord Morris, said at the beginning of his speech. In the other place the Minister seemed to be concerned that if the amendment were passed it would somehow impinge upon the independence of the independent schools. However, it could just as easily be said that that independence is impinged upon by the schools' choosing--a word emphasised by the noble Lord, Lord Morris--to accept public money through the assisted places scheme. That is a self-chosen restriction, to a small extent, on their independence. I should have thought it was entirely reasonable that if schools choose to accept public money in that way they must similarly accept the responsibility that goes with it to meet the same standards in terms of both curriculum and inspection as those required in the maintained sector. That seems an entirely fair and proper arrangement. It would stand regardless of what may or may not have been said in the other place. It becomes even more the case when we examine the concerns expressed in the other place, to which the noble Lord, Lord Morris, referred so ably. It is an important and fair amendment which I am pleased to support.
9 p.m.
Lord Henley: I start with an apology to the noble Lord, Lord Morris. I possibly made a somewhat intemperate response to him in describing as "incompetence" getting the groupings wrong. As we all know, on the morning of any Committee or Report stage or, for that matter, Third Reading of a Bill, getting the groupings right is a difficult art. I think it is right to describe it as an art and not a science. As the note at the top of the groupings list states every day:
- "Although every effort is made to secure agreement to these groupings, they remain informal and not binding. It is therefore open to any Peer to speak to an amendment in its place in the Marshalled List".
The noble Lord eased our job on this occasion by grouping together the two amendments that were ungrouped. I offer him my wholehearted apology.
Having said that, the amendment seeks to apply the various maintained sector provisions to APS schools. The assisted places scheme is about providing different opportunities for children. It is not about bringing the independent sector into line with the maintained sector. Perhaps I may say that in response to the noble Lord, Lord Tope. Independent schools are not part of the maintained sector of education. It is not, therefore, appropriate simply to import such provisions.
Existing levels of regulation, both for the independent sector schools generally--and there are a number of regulations to which I shall come in due course--and APS schools in particular have been framed to take account of the particular ethos of the sector. They strike the right balance between freedom for those independent bodies--and they are independent--and central controls.
As we all know, the best independent schools are models of high standards which help create the climate of excellence. We are firmly committed to the existence of a healthy and vigorous independent sector, free from unnecessary interference by the state. We do not believe that any part of the independent sector should have to comply with provisions designed specifically for the maintained sector. Independent schools obviously value highly the flexibility available to them to shape provision in the light of parental demand and their own circumstances. Their achievements are testament to the sense of that approach.
Schools which participate in the assisted places scheme have been selected on the basis of stringent criteria for admission and are among the best independent schools in the country. One of the conditions of acceptance into the scheme has always been that the school has to offer a broad and balanced curriculum. Although APS schools are not statutorily obliged to implement the national curriculum, many have implemented it in total, and most track it closely. They have indicated their support for its fundamental aims of raising standards.
The Secretary of State's responsibilities in relation to all independent schools require her to be satisfied that they meet certain standards in terms of premises, accommodation, curriculum and instruction and for the welfare of pupils in boarding establishments. All schools are covered by the cycle of inspections carried out by Ofsted and that includes the independent schools which are inspected by Her Majesty's chief inspector and by Ofsted over a five to eight-year cycle to ensure that they maintain standards required for registration. Virtually all, I think 98 per cent., of the 355 schools now in the assisted places scheme have been inspected within the past eight years. Over 80 per cent. of them have been inspected in the past five years. The performance of those schools is also monitored through examination results and audit surveys and through analysis of the school's statistical returns.
The noble Lord, Lord Morris, raised a number of other concerns which I should like to address. Part V of the Police Bill seeks to widen access to full criminal record checks for more sensitive areas of employment. That includes the tightening of the existing arrangements to allow checks to be performed on staff, even where their access to vulnerable people like children might be minimal. Independent schools will be able to gain access to the service. Independent schools, in common with the maintained schools, cannot employ teachers who appear on what I am told is described as List 99, the department's register of barred teachers. Furthermore, all independent schools are provided with relevant information on how to conduct criminal background checks on staff who will have access to children. The arrangements for undertaking checks are not materially different for independent schools compared, for example, with grant-maintained schools.
To place the requirements outlined in this amendment on independent schools would amount to a restriction which would be inconsistent with their status as independent institutions. These schools achieve
excellent results and can demonstrate very high standards of achievement. We support their right to exercise appropriate discretion over curricular and other matters. Therefore, I hope that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Morris of Castle Morris: Before the noble Lord sits down, perhaps I may ask him one question, genuinely for information. How many of the Ofsted reports on those schools are available to the public?
Lord Henley: As I said earlier about bearing gifts, what I really fear are questions merely asking for information. I do not know the answer to the noble Lord's question. I shall let him know in due course.
The Lord Bishop of Ripon: I too wish to ask a question on a point of information. The Minister may not have the answer but can possibly find out. Among the prep schools of excellence that he mentioned are the cathedral choir schools which provide not only a superb education in singing, in instrumental music and in understanding music but also a wide ranging education. As one who has a close connection with a particular choir school, I am aware of the importance of what might be described as a balanced social intake. Most choir schools attempt to provide this by having bursaries or scholarships of some kind, but clearly their resources are stretched. The assisted places scheme would seem to be an opportunity for ensuring that such schools are open to a wide range of youngsters. Among the schools which have been invited to bid for such assisted places, are there any choir schools?
Lord Henley: I can imagine the particular choir school with which the right reverend Prelate has some connection and that it is not unadjacent to Ripon. But having said that, I cannot answer his question at this moment. I do not know whether there are any choir schools involved. Certainly I shall write to the right reverend Prelate.
Lord Morris of Castle Morris: The Minister will not be staggered to learn that I find his response less than totally satisfactory. It is not a matter of trying in any way to bring one kind of school in line with the other, making the one the same as the other--the Lord forfend! We have heard enough times the myth that every comprehensive school is the same as every other comprehensive school. One only has to visit three to see the enormous difference between them.
But in this case, he who pays the piper must to some extent call the tune. In the assisted places scheme there were 335 schools at the last count, costing over £100 million per annum to the taxpayer. We can add to that the service boarding schools, which also benefit and which take £110 million plus from the public purse. So the cost in total seems to be nearer £350 million per annum from the British taxpayer. All that we ask in these amendments is that for that price there should be a certain degree of conformity.
But I see I have not penetrated the noble Lord's armour. I seldom do. In fact, I do not remember an occasion in the last two Bills that we have debated together on which he has ever given me the sheer shock and pleasure of saying, "Well, there might be just something in what the noble Lord and his noble friends have said and, although I shall not in any way commit myself to anything whatsoever, I shall perhaps take it away and give it a few moments' thought before I come back and reject it".
In the hope that before we finish with the Bill I might just crack the noble Lord's iron resolve never to let anything past his bat, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendment No. 91 not moved.]
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