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Lord Mackay of Drumadoon: My Lords, the appropriateness of this new disposal and when the court will use it or could use it have been discussed at some length during the earlier stages of the Bill both in your Lordships' House and in another place. As I have previously explained, the court can already call for whatever reports it requires to reach a conclusion about how to deal with any offender. In cases of fine default, the court will inquire into the offender's means before deciding how he or she is to be dealt with. That is well-established practice. I can see no reason why the court will not adopt the same approach when contemplating the use of this new disposal.
It is an innovative step and we want to be sure that the new arrangements have the desired positive effect. That is why we have provided for trials of the new measure first through pilot schemes before consideration is given to its more widespread introduction. We shall consult fully on the proposals for pilot schemes before any action is taken. Equally, when the results of the pilot schemes become known, those, too, will be available for public discussion.
I have given a full explanation of what will be involved in the pilot schemes. On that basis I hope that the noble Earl will be satisfied that it would be wrong at this stage to alter what is proposed. If the need for that arises at a later stage, it can certainly be addressed then. On that assurance I trust that he will withdraw the amendment.
The Earl of Mar and Kellie: My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for that assurance that the courts will approach this matter seriously. It sounds to me as though suitability reports will be very much part of the pilot projects. I hope that that will end up in the guidance. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Manuscript Amendment No. 18A not moved.]
Clause 18 [Automatic sentences: jurisdiction and appeals]:
Lord Mackay of Drumadoon moved manuscript Amendment No. 19ZA:
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, this amendment was spoken to with Amendment No. 2. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
[Manuscript Amendment No. 19A not moved.]
Clause 20 [Transfer of rights of appeal of deceased person]:
The Deputy Speaker: My Lords, I call Amendment No. 20 in the name of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Drumadoon.
Lord Harris of Greenwich: My Lords, before we go any further, as we are cheerfully agreeing to a number of manuscript amendments and as a number of us do not have the good fortune to have them in front of us, it would be desirable for us as a revising Chamber at least to know what we are talking about.
Lord Mackay of Drumadoon: My Lords, I hope we are aware of what we are talking about. Printed versions of the manuscript amendments are available to noble Lords. I know that a number of noble Lords have them. If they do not all have them, that is a matter of regret. But I think they have been available for some time, albeit that they became available this morning, which is of the very nature of manuscript amendments. I can certainly assure the noble Lord that manuscript amendments in my name were sent, and physically delivered, to the office of the noble Lord and his colleagues.
Lord Harris of Greenwich: My Lords, the point is that if we are to have any more manuscript amendments, it would be extremely helpful if the noble and learned Lord could tell us what their effect will be.
The Earl of Balfour: My Lords, the manuscript amendments are in the Printed Paper Office. They have been available for some time, but not necessarily at either end of this House.
Lord Mackay of Drumadoon moved Amendment No. 20:
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, in moving this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendment No. 21. These two amendments would allow the High Court to grant a person authorisation at any time to institute or commence an appeal in respect of a deceased person if cause for that course of action can be shown. These amendments follow from the commitment which I gave to the noble Lords, Lord Macaulay and Lord Sewel, when this Bill was in Committee on 10th March, in response to their own amendment. I stated then that I would be happy to take the amendment away, giving a clear commitment that the Government would come forward with an amendment which took account of certain technical, drafting concerns. That is what these amendments do. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Mackay of Drumadoon moved Amendment No. 21:
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, I have already spoken to this amendment with the previous amendment. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Mackay of Drumadoon moved Amendment No. 22:
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, in moving this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 23, 26, 43, 45 to 47, 50 to 53 and 55.
Your Lordships will be aware that the Government have been of the view that the need for a commission to review allegations of miscarriages of justice in Scotland, of the type recently set up in England, had not been clearly established. The evidence which the Sutherland Committee had received on this matter was divided and there was no clear evidence that the present appeal system and the procedure for the Secretary of State to refer cases to the Court of Appeal was failing. The committee's main concerns were with the appeals criteria. We believed that our acceptance of virtually all of the recommendations on appeals criteria would effectively address the main concerns of those interested and concerned about alleged miscarriages of justice in Scotland.
We believed that the terms of the committee's report on whether there should be an independent review body did not demonstrate any overwhelming pressure or compelling case for this to be set up. We accepted, like the committee itself, that
Ultimately, we came down on one side on this issue whilst the committee came down on the other.
After further consideration and taking account of the views expressed in your Lordships' House at Committee stage, we are prepared to accept that an independent body to review alleged miscarriages of justice should be set up, replacing the current statutory involvement of the Secretary of State.
This group of amendments and in particular Amendment No. 26 provide for that. In general they are based on the recommendations put forward by the Sutherland Committee, but some of the detail and mechanics of what is proposed correspond to some of the provisions of the Criminal Appeal Act 1995, which established the Criminal Cases Review Commission in England and Wales. These have required to be adjusted, where appropriate, for the Scottish context. I am not sure that it is necessary to go through these in detail. I shall be happy to answer any points raised by noble Lords in speaking to this amendment. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Mackay of Drumadoon moved Amendment No. 23:
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, I spoke to this amendment with Amendment No. 22. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Mackay of Drumadoon moved Amendment No. 24:
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, in speaking to this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 25, 49 and 54. Clauses 20 and 21 of the Bill make provision for rights of appeal by the prosecutor. All possible disposals following conviction, including mental health disposals, are now covered by these two clauses. However, on closer examination it has been appreciated that the provisions do not cover disposals following a finding of insanity of the accused. The purpose of these amendments is to correct that anomaly. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Mackay of Drumadoon moved Amendment No. 25:
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, I spoke to this amendment with the previous amendment. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Page 26, line 12, leave out from ("decision") to end of line 14.
Page 28, line 30, leave out ("must") and insert ("may").
Page 28, line 32, at end insert ("or at such later time as the Court may, on cause shown, allow.").
Page 28, line 33, leave out ("Secretary of State") and insert ("Commission").
"the arguments for and against change seemed fairly evenly balanced".
Page 28, line 34, leave out ("124(3)") and insert ("194B").5.15 p.m.
Page 30, leave out lines 41 to 44 and insert--
("60A.--(1) This section applies where the court, in respect of a person charged or brought before it, has made--
(a) an order under any of paragraphs (a) to (d) of subsection (2) of section 57 of this Act or such a decision as is mentioned in paragraph (e) of that subsection; or
(b) a hospital order, guardianship order, restriction order or a hospital direction.
(2) Where this section applies, the prosecutor may appeal against any such order, decision or direction as is mentioned in subsection (1) above--").
Page 30, line 45, after ("order") insert (", decision").
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