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Public Order (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 1997
Baroness Denton of Wakefield rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 17th March be approved.
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, the purpose of this order is to implement a number of recommendations of the report of the Independent Review of Parades and Marches. As your Lordships know, the Government have undertaken to establish an independent parades commission with an education, mediation and conciliation role. We expect very soon---I emphasis very soon--to announce a chairman and members of that commission. At the same time, the Government are consulting interested parties on wider decision-making and related powers which the report has recommended for a parades commission.
The measures which are being introduced now will implement recommendations which do not hinge on the outcome of the wider consultation. We consider it important that these measures should be in place for this year's main marching season.
The proposed order will make a number of amendments to the Public Order (Northern Ireland) Order 1987. These include measures relating to the requirements to notify the police of a public procession or parade. The current seven days' notice has been clearly shown to be insufficient time to reach agreement at local level, particularly in respect of contentious marches. We are therefore increasing the period of notice from seven to 21 days in line with the review team's recommendation. Where it is not reasonably practicable for the organiser of a parade to give 21 days' notice--for example, a march arranged in support of an industrial dispute--the organisers will have to explain to the police the reason for the short notice.
The draft order will give the police power to confiscate alcohol where it is being consumed at or in the vicinity of any place along the route of a parade or in the possession of persons travelling to a parade. These measures will therefore apply to those taking part in a parade, to others not directly involved in a parade and to those demonstrating against a parade. The powers are discretionary and implementation of them by the RUC will depend on the situation at the time. I beg to move.
Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 17th March be approved.--(Baroness Denton of Wakefield.)
Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, there is an elegiac tone to our discussions tonight. When the Minister and I were both young, which hardly seems a day ago, the Rolling Stones were in their full prime. I always thought that one of their better offerings was "This could be the last time".
There are familiar friends here tonight, not least the noble Viscount, Lord Long, and the noble Lords, Lord McConnell, Lord Fitt and Lord Cooke of Islandreagh. We have been together on so many occasions discussing Northern Ireland business. We all agree that we have always been dealing with a Minister of very high quality. She has dealt with all the issues with candour and decency. She has the respect of all who deal with her and, rather more rare among political figures, liking and trust. She has another very great virtue. When she speaks of a draft order she pronounces it correctly as draft, and not in that rather effete, southern way of--dare I try it?--dra-aft. It is definitely draft, not dra-aft.
She spoke about an appalling slur which appeared in Hansard in another place. I have to say that it is a corrupt Hansard because when the Member for Lewisham said that he thought it was a money-making scheme for lawyers, what he intended to say was that he was sure it was not a money-making scheme for lawyers. Curiously, the Hansard reporter omitted the word "not".
Noble Lords who spoke earlier mentioned the assertions made about the Minister's conduct. I do not know the ins and outs of those assertions, but I share with the noble Baroness, Lady Park of Monmouth, the belief that there are ignoble motives here and hidden hands at work. We cannot leave it there. I turn for the support of all noble Lords and the noble Baroness, and, for the purpose of the record, I see that I have the approval of all of them.
A report is being carried out. It would not be right, proper or fair if the Minister's position is not properly and scrupulously protected in the way that she is entitled, if necessary by the provision of legal representation and advice at public expense. That is the very least a Minister of the Crown is entitled to look to. The noble Baroness, Lady Park, spoke of the public support which might have been more vociferous. I note that and respectfully concur.
We cannot expect people to do difficult work if they are subject to what may be an insidious attempt at the assassination of a character which does not justify it. The Minister is entitled to the protection to which anyone else would reasonably look and which we would insist upon. I leave that matter there.
Your Lordships know that on this side of the House we have serious doubts about the speed of progress in relation to North. It is graceless and fruitless to repeat those doubts which I still have. But whatever happens in the election, I wish the Minister well in the future.
Baroness Denton of Wakefield: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Williams. There is an enormous comfort in being a Member of your Lordships' House. I would like to take the opportunity to say that I have received enormous courtesy from all noble Lords involved with Northern Ireland business over the past three years. I have also welcomed and enjoyed the bipartisan approach to Northern Ireland issues which has been adopted on the basis that a solution is so necessary. I apologise on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, who cannot be here because he could not move the time of the last plane back to the Province, however influential he may now be as a Member of your Lordships' House.
On this side of the House, we have moved on from the Rolling Stones to the Spice Girls, but one's LSE tags always pull one back. In this House I have experienced unfailing concern for Northern Ireland and its future. I have indeed been fortunate in the past three years to work with noble Lords who have questioned, sometimes criticised and frequently expressed amazement at the length of time that legislation has been in coming. But noble Lords have always added much to the debate, and
perhaps I may speak on behalf of the people of Northern Ireland when I say that they are exceedingly grateful. I commend the order.On Question, Motion agreed to.
Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Codes of Practice No. 4) Order 1997
Baroness Blatch rose to move, That the order laid before the House on 13th March be approved [16th Report from the Joint Committee].
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, this order will bring into operation a revised code of practice on the exercise of stop and search powers by police officers. The revised code makes a small number of changes to clarify police powers in relation to members of gangs who habitually carry knives. I beg to move.
Moved, That the order laid before the House on 13th March be approved [16th Report from the Joint Committee].--(Baroness Blatch).
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, may I have a copy?
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 (Code of Practice) (No. 2) Order 1997
Baroness Blatch rose to move, That the order laid before the House on 3rd March be approved [15th Report from the Joint Committee].
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, this order brings into operation on 1st April the code of practice on criminal investigations which my right honourable friend the Home Secretary laid before Parliament on 27th February. I beg to move.
Moved, That the order laid before the House on 3rd March be approved [15th Report from the Joint Committee].--(Baroness Blatch.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Data Protection (Regulation of Financial Services etc.) (Subject Access Exemption) (Amendment) Order 1997
8.33 p.m.
Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 25th February be approved [14th Report from the Joint Committee].
The noble Lord said: My Lords, your Lordships will be aware that the Data Protection Act 1984 gives people a general right to know what information is held about them on computer. I am sure that we can all agree that this openness is very beneficial. There are though
circumstances when it could be damaging, and possibly disastrous. I believe that we need to curb access to this data where it could aid unlawful behaviour. This is especially important when the interests of innocent people are put at risk. That need was recognised in the Data Protection Act. The Act includes, at Section 30, a power which allows the Secretary of State to exempt personal data from this general right of access if it is held for the purposes of discharging statutory functions.Your Lordships will be aware that a number of regulators have been granted such an exemption to enable them to exercise their duties effectively. The draft order now before your Lordships' House seeks to include the new pensions regulator, called the Occupational Pensions Regulatory Authority but known for short as OPRA. OPRA was set up by the Pensions Act 1995. It has the prime responsibility for ensuring the security of the £500 billion worth of assets which back the rights of members of occupational pension schemes.
OPRA has been given substantial powers to help it carry out this task effectively. These include a power to fine individuals and organisations acting as trustees of schemes, as well as being able to prohibit unsuitable people from being trustees. So OPRA will acquire a great deal of sensitive information.
Your Lordships will recognise the use that "fraudsters" could make of a situation where OPRA was forced to allow anyone suspected of misusing assets to have full knowledge of the information held about them. This knowledge could be used to frustrate an investigation, either by the destruction of records or by suborning people.
The order now before your Lordships' House is designed to ensure that, from the outset, OPRA is able to protect information from premature and damaging subject access.
Your Lordships will wish to know that the Data Protection Registrar has been consulted about the terms of the order, as is required under Section 40 of the Act. She has pronounced herself satisfied with it.
I believe that this order is essential to enable OPRA to carry out its functions effectively. It forms a small but important part in the overall provisions designed to safeguard the pensions of millions of people. It will thus enable people to invest with confidence in funded pension provision for their retirement. That is something which I hope we can all support. I commend this order to the House. I beg to move.
Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 25th February be approved [14th Report from the Joint Committee].--(Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
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