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Lord Haskel: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn during pleasure for five minutes.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
[The Sitting was suspended from 8.30 to 8.35 p.m.]
School Standards and Framework Bill
Clause 66 [Duty to secure due provision of religious education]:
Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 200A:
The noble Lord said: In rising to move Amendment No. 200A I should like to speak also to Amendments Nos. 255B, 256A, 257A, 257B, 257D and 257H. Amendment No. 200A is a technical amendment. Clause 66 provides for an order to designate foundation and voluntary schools with a religious character in the new framework and to state what that religious character is, of whatever faith. There are already some joint Church of England/Methodist and joint Church of England/Catholic schools and there could be more joint faith schools in future. It follows therefore that we need to allow for this is in the order designating schools with a religious character, which is the purpose of the words in brackets at the end of the amendment. The amendment also tidies up the wording to reflect the fact that, in line with the position established since the 1944 Act, under Schedule 19 a voluntary controlled or foundation
The amendments to Clause 130 are also technical amendments. They clarify three points in relation to Clause 66 and the associated order designating schools with a religious character. First, they adjust the definitions of schools which are Church in Wales, Church of England and Roman Catholic schools so that those definitions are linked to the schools which are designated under the Clause 66 procedures as being associated with the relevant Church. They also take into account the amendment to Clause 66 by which the order designating schools with a religious character can specify more than one religion or religious denomination in the case of such joint faith or joint denomination schools. Secondly, they allow for references to schools with a religious character to apply to either or both of the faiths or denominations concerned in the case of such joint faith or joint denomination schools. Thirdly, they ensure that wherever the Bill assigns a power or function to "the appropriate Diocesan authority" those references also can be read as applying to either or both of the diocesan authorities for joint C of E/RC schools. The amendments to Clause 131 are also technical. They merely insert a cross-reference to a definition in the index clause. These amendments have all been agreed with the Churches. I commend them to the House.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 66, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 67 [Requirements relating to collective worship]:
Lord Tope moved Amendment No. 201:
The noble Lord said: I rise to move Amendment No. 201 which stands in my name. I recall on Thursday that the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, described one of his amendments as a grammatical quibble. I think that to some extent this amendment falls into the same category but perhaps with a slightly more serious point.
As the clause is drafted at the moment it could certainly be taken to mean--although I do not think it does--that all pupils must take part in the same act of collective worship, and that may be practically impossible in many schools. Quite a number of schools these days do not have sufficient space for all pupils to be in the same act of worship in the same place at the same time, which I suspect is not the intention here anyway. My amendment simply seeks to make it a little clearer that we mean each pupil must take part in an act of collective worship, though not necessarily the same one. I beg to move.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: I must confess that I had not thought of that interpretation. Rather than give the lengthy description of why it would not
In this group we also have Government Amendments Nos. 201A and 201B. If the Committee would allow me, I should like to speak to them now. They are introduced in place of one from the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Ripon which he has since withdrawn. I am most grateful to him for doing so. The wording, which is slightly different from the original, has been agreed by the Churches. The right reverend Prelate has been good enough to write to my noble friend Lady Blackstone to explain that he has to be out of the Committee at this time but that he supports the amendments which are on the Order Paper.
The amendment to Clause 67 is straightforward and consequential on the more significant amendment to Schedule 20. It simply changes the description of the contents of Schedule 20 to accommodate the amendment to that Schedule. The purpose of the substantive amendment--that is, Amendment No. 201B--is to make the Bill more explicit about the nature of collective worship in foundation schools with a religious character, and in voluntary schools.
Under current legislation, and in this Bill as originally drafted, the governing body of such a school is responsible for collective worship arrangements after discussion with the head teacher. Those arrangements must be in accordance with any provisions of the school's trust deed. This amendment confirms those requirements, but also adds a further provision in respect of foundation and voluntary schools with a religious character.
In cases where provision for collective worship is not made by a trust deed, then the worship in those schools is to be "in accordance with the tenets or practices of the religion or religious denomination" specified in the order referred to in Clause 66(4).
The Church of England assures us that this will not cause problems, or indeed significant changes, in any of their schools: the purpose is simply to clarify the existing law. I commend these amendments to the Committee.
Lord Tope: I think this is the nearest I have come to a victory on this Bill. I am almost tempted to press it to the vote and actually secure the victory, but I shall not. Given the assurances from the Minister that he will look seriously at this important grammatical point, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 201A:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 67, as amended, agreed to.
Schedule 20 [Collective worship]:
Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 201B:
("Nature of collective worship in foundation schools with a religious character and voluntary schools
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 20, as amended, agreed to.
[Amendment Nos. 202 and 203 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.]
Clause 71 [Transfer of land on appointed day]:
Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 203A:
The noble Lord said: I beg to move Amendment No. 203A and to speak to the rather large batch of other amendments included within this group. I have written to the noble Baroness and to the noble Lord, Lord Tope; and also to the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, who has actually received it on this occasion.
These are all relatively technical amendments. The first two amendments, Amendments Nos. 203A and 203B, relate to Clause 71 and Schedule 21. They relate to the provisions dealing with the transfer of land in respect of former grant maintained or grant maintained special schools which become foundation, community or voluntary schools on the appointed day.
The White Paper said that the premises of a community school would be owned by the LEA and that foundation and voluntary schools would own their own premises. The Government have since acknowledged that trying to achieve complete consistency of ownership for voluntary and foundation schools would create too much turbulence and that the guiding principle to be adopted under the new framework should simply be that schools should continue to hold what they now have. These amendments follow that principle. The rest of the amendments relate to Schedule 22. That schedule contains detailed and complex provisions designed to safeguard public fund investment in foundation, voluntary and foundation special schools. Most of the amendments are technical. Others are to address concerns expressed by the Churches, and others are to bring the discontinuance arrangements for community schools into line with those for other maintained schools. I shall try quickly to explain the purposes of these groups of amendments.
Amendments Nos. 203E, 203F, 205A and 205C address concerns expressed by the Churches about arrangements for LEA compensation where property, which has either been provided or enhanced by LEAs, is sold. These amendments will require LEAs to record capital expenditure investment in order to qualify for compensation and will also make explicit provision that trustee or governing body investment should be taken into account when determining the level of compensation.
Page 51, line 35, leave out ("to be provided at the school") and insert (", or may be, required to be provided at the school in accordance with Schedule 19 (or, as the case may be, each such religion or religious denomination)").
Page 51, line 42, leave out ("all pupils") and insert ("each pupil").
Page 52, line 11, leave out from ("worship") to end of line 13.
Page 183, line 8, at end insert--
. In the case of a foundation school which has a religious character or a voluntary school, the required collective worship shall be--
(a) in accordance with any provisions of the trust deed relating to the school, or
(b) where--
(i) provision for that purpose is not made by such a deed, and
(ii) the school has a religious character,
in accordance with the tenets and practices of the religion or religious denomination specified in relation to the school under section 66(4).").
Page 55, line 35, after ("land") insert ("and certain rights and liabilities").
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