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Division No. 3


Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beloff, L.
Blatch, B.
Bowness, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Coleraine, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Cross, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gray, L.
Greenway, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Kinnoull, E.
Kitchener, E.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Leigh, L.
Lindsay, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Mancroft, L.
Marlesford, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Mountevans, L.
Norrie, L.
Northesk, E.
O'Cathain, B.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pike, B.
Rawlings, B.
Reay, L.
Rennell, L.
Rowallan, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B. [Teller.]
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L. [Teller.]
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Teviot, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wise, L.


Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Barnett, L.
Berners, B.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carter, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B. [Teller.]
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dearing, L.
Desai, L.
Diamond, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gallacher, L.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenamara, L.
Goodhart, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Haskel, L.
Hattersley, L.
Hayman, B.
Henderson of Brompton, L. [Teller.]
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollick, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L. [Lord Chancellor.]
Islwyn, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kennet, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Lawrence, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Ludford, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Meston, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Newby, L.
Nicol, B.
Orme, L.
Parry, L.
Paul, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L. [Lord Privy Seal.]
Ripon, Bp.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Southwell, Bp.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wakefield, Bp.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warnock, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

16 Jun 1998 : Column 1508

6.55 p.m.

[Amendment No. 246FB not moved.]

On Question, Whether Clause 121 shall stand part of the Bill?

Lord Wilberforce: I have already made my submissions. I do not wish to trouble the Committee with any further observations.

Clause 121 agreed to.

Clauses 122 to 125 agreed to.

Schedule 28 agreed to.

Clause 126 agreed to.

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 246G:

After Clause 126, insert the following new clause--

Education Transfer Council: alteration of functions and provision for dissolution

(" .--(1) Schedule (Amendments relating to functions of Education Transfer Council) (which amends section 198 of, and Schedule 10 to, the Education Reform Act 1988, which relate to the functions of the Education Transfer Council) shall have effect.

16 Jun 1998 : Column 1509

(2) The Secretary of State may by order make such further amendments of those provisions of that Act as he considers expedient.
(3) Regulations may make provision--
(a) for the dissolution of the Education Transfer Council by order of the Secretary of State and for enabling him to determine how any property, rights and liabilities of the Council are to be dealt with in connection with their dissolution;
(b) for the subsequent establishment of a new body with such name as may be prescribed and constituted in the same manner as, or similarly to, the Council;
(c) for dealing with transfers of property, rights and liabilities under this Act or under the Education Reform Act 1988 at a time when the Council has been dissolved and either--
(i) a body has been subsequently established under paragraph (b), or
(ii) no such body has been so established.
(4) Regulations under subsection (3) may, in connection with any matters falling within paragraph (b) or (c) of that subsection--
(a) modify any of the provisions of section 197 or 198 of, or Schedule 8 or 10 to, the Education Reform Act 1988;
(b) apply any of those provisions with or without modifications;
(c) make provision corresponding or similar to any of those provisions.").

The noble Lord said: In moving this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 257AA and 257AC, 258P and 258S.

These amendments relate to the functions of the Education Transfer Council, which will take over from the Education Assets Board. They are mainly technical and seek to apply the existing transfer provisions in Section 198 of, and Schedule 10 to, the 1988 Act to those transfers that may be necessary under the new framework. Those sections set out the functions of the Education Assets Board (EAB), which is a non-departmental public body sponsored by the department and is responsible for effecting those transfers of property, rights and liabilities required under the 1988 Act. The EAB will be renamed the Education Transfer Council under Clause 126 of this Bill and will have responsibility for effecting those transfers of land required under the new framework.

Amendment No. 246G will also enable the Secretary of State to make such amendments to the transfer provisions as he considers appropriate. If, for example, he were persuaded at a later date that the transfer provisions should be amended, then he could do so. However, in those circumstances I assure the Committee that he would consult fully.

Schedule 10 to the 1988 Act deals with the ownership of shared property. The new schedule introduces those amendments necessary to apply the provisions of Schedule 10 to the 1988 Act to those transfers required under this Bill.

At present the EAB acts on behalf of the transferee (for example, a GM school) but we envisage that under the new framework the Education Transfer Council should in most cases have a more neutral role. Its duties would be to assist all parties in their negotiations. The one exception is where the transferor is an LEA and the transferee is a foundation school. In such cases the ETC

16 Jun 1998 : Column 1510

will continue to act on behalf of the school. This amendment also changes the way in which transfer disputes are resolved.

Under provisions contained in Schedule 8 to the 1988 Act, the Secretary of State may determine the pension arrangements and remuneration payable to staff and members of the Education Transfer Council. The Treasury has indicated that such decisions should be delegated to departments, and Amendments Nos. 257AC and 258P formalise that arrangement.

The Further and Higher Education Act 1992 contains a number of references that will have to be repealed because they will no longer be needed when the Bill becomes law. They are mainly references to grant-maintained schools.

This is a fairly straightforward set of amendments to deal with the new framework. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 127 [Orders and regulations]:

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