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Baroness Blackstone moved Amendments Nos. 222 to 228A:
Page 252, line 27, leave out ("and submitted").
Page 252, line 49, at end insert--
(" . Omit section 536 (medical inspection and treatment of pupils at grant-maintained schools).").
Page 257, line 21, leave out from ("(2),") to end of line 22 and insert ("omit the words from "and "alterations"" onwards,").
Page 258, line 39, at end insert--
(" . Schedule 28 (government and conduct of grant-maintained special schools) shall be omitted.").
Page 262, line 19, at end insert--
(" . In Schedule 6 (consequential amendments), omit paragraph 7.").
Page 263, line 20, at end insert--
(" . Omit section 50 (recoupment by local education authority of costs of teachers' premature retirement).").
Page 263, line 22, at end insert--
(" . In section 57 (minor and consequential amendments, repeals etc), omit subsections (2) and (3).").
Page 263, line 28, at end insert--
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Baroness Blackstone moved Amendments Nos. 228B to 231:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Schedule 32 [Transitional provisions and savings]:
Baroness Blackstone moved Amendments Nos. 232 to 234:
Page 264, line 51, at end insert--
("1980 c. 44. Education (Scotland)Act 1980. In section 75A(9A), the word "and" immediately preceding paragraph (b).")
Page 267, column 3, leave out lines 13 and 14.
Page 269, column 3, leave out line 48 and insert ("In section 573, in subsection (2) the words from "and "alterations"" onwards, and subsections (4) to (6).").
Page 269, column 3, leave out lines 50 to 53 and insert ("Section 576(2).").
Page 272, line 23, after ("effect") insert ("on and").
Page 274, line 27, leave out ("appointed day (as defined by") and insert ("day appointed under").
Page 274, line 43, at end insert--
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Baroness Blatch moved Amendment No. 234A:
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I seek to remove a line in the Bill which was, at one stage, the very last line in the Bill and something of an afterthought. There are now other passages in the Bill. It is on page 275 and refers to line 4.
This amendment seeks to remove the Secretary of State's powers to revoke or vary a grant-maintained school's right to disapply pay and conditions. This is an Oratory School amendment. That school fought quite hard for this facility to allow paragraphs 6(a) and (b) to be put into the Bill. At the very last minute appeared the words:
Either those grant-maintained schools are to be allowed to continue with that facility or they are not. We are very worried that the Government may have some future intention to remove it. I believe that there has been a genuine oversight here. I hope it is an oversight. I hope that the Government will agree to my amendment. I suspect, from the way that they have resisted almost everything that we have suggested, they will not. However, I ask them to look that school in the eye and say why the Secretary of State is to retain a power to revoke or to vary a grant-maintained school's right to disapply pay and conditions. I beg to move.
Lord Whitty: My Lords, I am tempted to respond to the somewhat excessive paranoia on behalf of the London Oratory. However, in this case and many of the others that have been referred to, the concern is misplaced. There is no ulterior motive behind those words. They simply serve to make paragraph 6 of the schedule work. But it is rather a complicated matter to explain.
Clause 13 of the Bill amends Section 3 of the School Teachers' Pay and Conditions Act. It does so by substituting a completely new section. Only two orders, including the one to which the noble Baroness referred, have been made under the existing Section 3 and those orders will still be in force when the entirely new Section 3 comes into force.
It is true that we have no wish to extend any such exemption to other schools but we have made it quite clear that we accept that the position relating to those schools should stand. Paragraph 6 of Schedule 32 is a saving provision. It serves to protect the existing orders from the effect of the repeal of the old Section 3. It provides that any such order which relates to a grant-maintained school which becomes a foundation or voluntary-aided school under the new framework shall continue to have effect.
The words in line 4 of page 275 provide that:
Moreover, the orders are subject to Section 570(3) of the Education Act 1996 which provides that no order varying or revoking an order under old Section 3 could be made unless two preconditions apply. Those conditions are that the governing body initiates the process and that it must consult the school teachers concerned beforehand. Paragraph 6 operates to preserve that position. It does not grant to the Secretary of State any greater powers in respect of those two outstanding orders than he currently has. It certainly does not allow him of his own volition, as the noble Baroness suggested, to initiate a variation or revocation, nor does it alter the present position of the schools concerned. I therefore think the amendment is unnecessary and could be a restrictive provision should the schools themselves wish to vary the form of their exemption at a future date. I am sure that is not the intention of the noble Baroness, and I therefore ask her to reconsider and withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, I find the answers more gobbledy-gookish as we go along. The provision states that,
I am pleased that it was the noble Lord who put on the record the paranoia of the Oratory. It happens to be a particularly good school.
Page 275, leave out line 4.
"and any such order may be varied or revoked accordingly".
"any such order",
that is, these orders,
"may be varied or revoked accordingly".
That means that any such order can be varied or revoked under the powers previously contained in old Section 3 as though that section were still in force and notwithstanding its repeal. It therefore simply suggests the restoration of the pre-existing position.
"any such order may be varied or revoked accordingly".
That gives a power to vary and a power to revoke. As these are schools that exist, as it states in paragraph 6:
"The amendment made by section 13 of this Act shall not affect the operation of section 3 of the School Teachers' Pay and Conditions Act 1991, as in force immediately before that amendment comes into force, in relation to any order made under section 3 of that Act which--
(a) is then in force; and
(b) relates to a grant-maintained school which becomes a foundation or voluntary aided school on the appointed day in accordance with Schedule 2 to this Act",
if the Government have no intention of varying or revoking such an order, then we would not wish him to have this power. If he has the power, then we remain suspicious as to why he should need it. Therefore I do not understand it.
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