Previous Section Back to Table of Contents Lords Hansard Home Page

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that explanation. I understand why Schedule 1 mentions the Orkney Islands and the Shetland Islands. I suspect, due to one of the deals in the constitutional convention, it was decided that the Orkney and Shetland constituency (which works perfectly happily for Westminster) should be divided for reasons of the Scottish parliament.

The point is that it does that not only the first time, but unless I am mistaken it entrenches that position so that even if a future Boundary Commission decided to put them together or to add to Orkney what is the fairly nearby Caithness, it would not be allowed to do so. When one goes to Clause 82, which involves the arrangements at Westminster, there again the position of Orkney and Shetland is entrenched.

I am therefore not persuaded by the argument that the Western Isles is different. I see no reason why it should not be entrenched. The noble Lord says we should leave it to the common sense of future boundary commissioners. If so, I suggest that for the purposes of the first election and perhaps the second one also, Orkney and Shetland should be two different constituencies. Thereafter it should be left to the good sense of the Boundary Commission. The Minister cannot plead with me that I should leave the Western Isles to the Boundary Commission's good sense and not leave Orkney and Shetland to the same good sense.

In order to get this matter out of the way, I shall ask the opinion of the House so that the Stornoway Gazette can at least print some of the proceedings in your Lordships' Chamber.

22 Oct 1998 : Column 1611

6.46 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 5) shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 74; Not-Contents, 83.

Division No. 3


Addington, L.
Ampthill, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Avebury, L.
Balfour, E.
Bath, M.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller.]
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cross, V.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Falkland, V.
Ferrers, E.
Goodhart, L.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Jacobs, L.
Kingsland, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Ludford, B.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Meston, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Milverton, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Montrose, D.
Newby, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nickson, L.
Northesk, E.
Ogmore, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Razzall, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L. [Teller.]
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sempill, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Strathcona and Mount Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thurso, V.
Vivian, L.


Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Carter, L. [Teller.]
Chandos, V.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Diamond, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gallacher, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hacking, L.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L. [Lord Chancellor.]
Jay of Paddington, B. [Lord Privy Seal.]
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Levy, L.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller.]
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Marsh, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Thornton, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

22 Oct 1998 : Column 1612

6.54 p.m.

Viscount Thurso moved Amendment No. 6:

Page 60, line 9, at end insert--
(" . The parliamentary constituencies to which paragraph 1(c) applies are those determined by the Parliamentary Constituencies (Scotland) Order 1995, or those Scottish parliamentary constituencies determined following a report of the Boundary Commission for Scotland under paragraph 3 of this Schedule, except a parliamentary constituency including either of those islands referred to in paragraph 1(a) and (b).").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 7 not moved.]

Viscount Thurso moved Amendment No. 8:

Page 60, leave out lines 15 to 17.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Serota): My Lords, in calling Amendment No. 9, I should point out that if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments Nos. 10 to 20.

Viscount Thurso moved Amendment No. 9:

Page 60, leave out lines 18 to 37 and insert--

("Redistribution of Scottish Parliamentary constituencies

3.--(1) The Boundary Commission for Scotland shall keep under review the representation in the Scottish Parliament and shall submit to the Scottish Executive a report either--
(a) showing the constituencies into which they recommend that Scotland should be divided in order to give effect to the

22 Oct 1998 : Column 1613

rules set out in Schedule 2 (subject to paragraph 7 thereof) to the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986 ("the 1986 Act") in so far as they apply to Scotland, or
(b) stating that, in the opinion of the Commission, no alteration is required to be made in order to give effect to the rules set out in Schedule 2 (subject to paragraph 7 thereof) to the 1986 Act.
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 81 of this Act, the rules in Schedule 2 to the 1986 Act as they apply to Scotland shall have effect in relation to the redistribution of the parliamentary constituencies referred to in paragraph 1(c) above.
(3) Subject to sub-paragraph (5) below, the provisions of sections 3, 5 and 6 of the 1986 Act shall, in so far as they apply to Scotland, have effect in relation to the reports and the workings of the Boundary Commission for Scotland's review of parliamentary constituencies for the Parliament.
(4) Subject to sub-paragraph (5), the provisions of section 4 of the 1986 Act shall have effect in relation to the draft of any Order in Council laid before the Parliament by the Scottish Executive for giving effect, whether with or without modifications, to the recommendations contained in the report of the Boundary Commission for Scotland.
(5) References to the Secretary of State in the 1986 Act shall, for the purposes of this paragraph, be construed as references to the Scottish Executive and references to Parliament in the 1986 Act shall be construed as references to the Parliament.
(6) The Boundary Commission for Scotland shall submit their first report under this paragraph to the Scottish Executive no later than 30th June 2003.
(7) In that report, the Commission shall also recommend any alteration in any of the regions which, in their opinion, is required to give effect to the rules in paragraph 7 below.
(8) If the Commission do not make any recommendation under sub-paragraph (7), they shall in the report state that, in their opinion, no such alteration is required.
(9) A report making a recommendation for an alteration in any region shall state the name by which the Commission recommend that the region should be known.").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendments Nos. 10 to 20 not moved.]

Next Section Back to Table of Contents Lords Hansard Home Page