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Lord Sewel moved Amendments Nos. 206L and 206M:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Clause 111 [Consolidated Fund etc.]:
Lord Sewel moved Amendment No. 206N:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 116 [Modification of sections 109 to 114]:
Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale moved Amendment No. 206P:
The noble Baroness said: In moving Amendment No. 206P, I shall speak also to Amendment No. 206Q. These are technical amendments which add Clause 89 to the list of general modification clauses which subordinate legislation under the Bill may disapply or modify in particular cases. Clause 89 was overlooked because it does not appear alongside the other general modification clauses, namely Clauses 109 to 114, in the Bill. I will expand on the matter if noble Lords wish me to do so. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale moved Amendment No. 206Q:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 4 [Enactments etc. protected from modification]:
Lord Sewel moved Amendment No. 206R:
Page 51, line 37, leave out from ("authority") to ("and") in line 38 and insert ("with mixed functions or no reserved functions,").
Page 52, line 2, leave out from ("authority") to ("and") in line 3 and insert ("with mixed functions or no reserved functions,").
Page 52, line 19, leave out from ("authority") to end of line 20 and insert ("with mixed functions or no reserved functions.").
Page 54, line 5, after ("sections") insert (" 89 and").
Page 54, line 9, after ("sections") insert (" 89 and").
Page 65, leave out lines 8 to 40 and insert--
1.--(1) An Act of the Scottish Parliament cannot modify, or confer power by subordinate legislation to modify, any of the following provisions.
(2) The provisions are--
(a) Articles 4 and 6 of the Union with Scotland Act 1706 and of the Union with England Act 1707 so far as they relate to freedom of trade,
(b) the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act 1936,
(c) the following provisions of the European Communities Act 1972--
Section 1 and Schedule 1,
Section 2, other than subsection (2), the words following "such Community obligation" in subsection (3) and the words "subject to Schedule 2 to this Act" in subsection (4),
Section 3(1) and (2),
Section 11(2),
(d) paragraphs 5(3)(b) and 15(4)(b) of Schedule 32 to the Local Government, Planning and Land Act 1980 (designation of enterprise zones),
(e) sections 140A to 140G of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 (rent rebate and rent allowance subsidy and council tax benefit),
(f) the Human Rights Act 1998.
2.--(1) An Act of the Scottish Parliament cannot modify, or confer power by subordinate legislation to modify, the law on reserved matters.").
The noble Lord said: In moving Amendment No. 206R, I shall speak also to government Amendments Nos. 206S to 206W. This is a suite of technical amendments to Schedule 4. I hope to be brief, but I can supply further detail about particular provisions if noble Lords would find that helpful.
As noble Lords will be aware, Schedule 4 sets out restrictions upon the ability of the Scottish parliament to modify the Bill itself, certain other enactments and the law on reserved matters. These amendments clarify both the wording and the format of the schedule. For example, they ensure that, where the schedule prevents an Act of the Scottish parliament from modifying an enactment, it should, except in certain cases, also prevent ministerial functions conferred by that enactment from transferring to the Scottish Ministers.
The amendments ensure that the parliament can legislate about its own protections from judicial proceedings, as has been referred to earlier. The amendments also ensure that the restrictions in the schedule do not unduly limit the competence of the Scottish parliament to legislate about its own subordinate legislation procedure or about the fulfilment of the requirements of Clause 66 on financial control and Clause 87 on maladministration.
Finally, the amendments prevent modification of the powers which UK Ministers share with the Scottish Ministers by virtue of Clause 52 and of certain provisions of social security legislation. That will ensure that the ministerial functions of funding council tax benefit and housing benefit remain with the UK Government rather than being caught by the general devolution of the funding of local authorities and Scottish Homes. I beg to move.
Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish: My Lords, amendments that spread over four pages of the Marshalled List can hardly be described as technical amendments. Equally, amendments that delete a whole chunk of a schedule and replace it with a lot more words cannot be described as technical. These amendments came into our hands only towards the end of last week and we have not yet had time fully to study them. Their purpose is to make clear on the face of the Bill--to that extent they are welcome--that the Scottish parliament cannot modify either by primary legislation or subordinate legislation a number of provisions. I cannot help noticing that the very first ones are Articles 4 and 6 of the Union with Scotland Act 1706 and the Union with England Act 1707. The fact that the Scottish parliament cannot change important Acts that brought about the United Kingdom is some progress. I understand that the Social Security Administration Act that the Minister has discussed and this Bill when it becomes an Act cannot be changed. I also note that judicial salaries cannot be changed. That does not surprise me given the difficulty that the Government had with the judges this afternoon.
However, my heart lightened somewhat when I reached paragraph 13. That does not prevent an Act of a Scottish parliament to amend any of the titles there
I note the absence of the noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwood, who I believe has more important duties today than participation in the Scotland Bill. He is taking part in a car rally throughout Africa, which some people in Scotland may find hard to believe is more important than the Scotland Bill. I did not believe that the Liberal Democrats thought that there was anything more important than this Bill.
To show that I have read it I make these observations. We shall study the detail with some care before next Monday. However, in so far as it prevents the Scottish parliament doing certain things that may bring about the end of the Union we probably agree with the Government.
Before I conclude, I commiserate with the Minister on having to withdraw from the battle to secure a first-past-the-post seat in the Scottish parliament. Perhaps we should table an amendment to ensure that he gains a top position in the top-up list in recognition of the sterling work that he has done on this Bill.
Lord Sewel: My Lords, I should correct the noble Lord on a point of fact. He said that the Government had had trouble with the judges earlier this evening. It was not so much the judges who caused trouble as our old friends the hereditary Peers. We won the Division with the life Peers.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Sewel moved Amendments Nos.206S to 206W:
Page 66, line 2, at end insert--
("and in this sub-paragraph "Act of Parliament" does not include this Act").
Page 66, leave out lines 13 to 17.
Page 66, leave out line 20 and insert ("Paragraph 2 does not apply to").
Page 66, line 22, after ("by") insert ("virtue of").
Page 66, line 31, leave out from beginning to end of line 27 on page 67 and insert--
("8.--(1) An Act of the Scottish Parliament cannot modify, or confer power by subordinate legislation to modify, this Act.
(2) This paragraph does not apply to modifying sections 1(4), 16(5), 20(6), 22(7), 23(9), 27(5), (Proceedings by or against the Parliament etc.) to 39, (Validity of acts of Scottish Ministers etc.), 81 and (Agency arrangements) and paragraphs 4(1), (2) and (2A) and 6(1) of Schedule 2.
(3) This paragraph does not apply to modifying any provision of this Act (other than sections 60(7), 62(2), 67(5), 73, 74 and 111) which--
(a) charges any sum on the Scottish Consolidated Fund,
(b) requires any sum to be paid out of that Fund without further approval, or
(c) requires or authorises the payment of any sum into that Fund.
(4) This paragraph does not apply to any modifications of Part III which are necessary or expedient for the purpose or in consequence of the establishment of a new fund, in addition to the Scottish Consolidated Fund, out of which loans may be made by the Scottish Ministers.
(5) This paragraph does not apply to--
(a) modifying so much of any enactment as is modified by this Act,
(b) repealing so much of any provision of this Act as amends any enactment, if the provision ceases to have effect in consequence of any enactment comprised in or made under an Act of the Scottish Parliament.
9. An Act of the Scottish Parliament cannot modify, or confer power by subordinate legislation to modify--
(a) the effect of section 111(3) in relation to any provision of an Act of Parliament relating to judicial salaries,
(b) so much of any enactment as--
(i) is amended by paragraph 2, 6 or 30 of Schedule 8, and
(ii) relates to the Advocate General,
(c) so much of any enactment as is amended by paragraph 8(b) or 27 of Schedule 8.
10. An Act of the Scottish Parliament cannot modify, or confer power by subordinate legislation to modify, any enactment so far as the enactment relates to powers exercisable by a Minister of the Crown by virtue of section 52.
11.--(1) Part I of this Schedule does not prevent an Act of the Scottish Parliament--
(a) restating the law (or restating it with such modifications as are not prevented by that Part), or
(b) repealing any spent enactment,
or conferring power by subordinate legislation to do so.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph 2, the law on reserved matters includes any restatement in an Act of the Scottish Parliament, or subordinate legislation under such an Act, of the law on reserved matters if the subject-matter of the restatement is a reserved matter.
12. Part I of this Schedule does not prevent the operation of any provision of the Interpretation Act 1978.
13.--(1) Part I of this Schedule does not prevent an Act of the Scottish Parliament amending, or conferring power by subordinate legislation to amend, any enactment by changing--
(a) any of the titles referred to in sub-paragraph (2), or
(b) any reference to a declarator,
in consequence of any provision made by or under an Act of the Scottish Parliament. (2) The titles are those of--
(a) any court or tribunal or any judge, chairman or officer of a court or tribunal,
(b) any holder of an office in the Scottish Administration which is not a ministerial office or any member of the staff of the Scottish Administration,
(c) any register.
14. Part I of this Schedule does not prevent an Act of the Scottish Parliament modifying, or conferring power by subordinate legislation to modify, any enactment for or in connection with the purposes of section 66 or 87.
15.--(1) Part I of this Schedule does not prevent an Act of the Scottish Parliament modifying, or conferring power by subordinate legislation to modify, any enactment for or in connection with any of the following purposes.
(2) Those purposes are--
(a) making different provision in respect of the document by which a power to make subordinate legislation within sub-paragraph (3) is to be exercised,
(b) making different provision (or no provision) for the procedure, in relation to the Parliament, to which legislation made in the exercise of such a power (or the instrument or other document in which it is contained) is to be subject,
(c) applying any enactment comprised in or made under an Act of the Scottish Parliament relating to the documents by which such powers may be exercised.
(3) The power to make the subordinate legislation, or a power to confirm or approve the legislation, must be exercisable by--
(a) a member of the Scottish Executive,
(b) any Scottish public authority with mixed functions or no reserved functions,
(c) any other person (not being a Minister of the Crown) within devolved competence.
16.--(1) This paragraph applies to a function which (apart from this Schedule) would be transferred to the Scottish Ministers by virtue of section 49(2)(b).
(2) If, because of anything in Part I of this Schedule, a provision of an Act of the Scottish Parliament modifying an enactment so as to provide for the function to be exercisable by a different person would be outside the legislative competence of the Parliament, the function is not so transferred.
17.--(1) Paragraph 16 does not apply to any function conferred by any provision of--
(a) the European Communities Act 1972,
(b) the Human Rights Act 1998, except sections 1, 5, 14 to 17 and 22 of that Act,
(c) the law on reserved matters (for the purposes of paragraph 2) so far as contained in an enactment. (2) For the purpose of determining--
(a) whether any function under any of the provisions referred to in sub-paragraph (1) is transferred to the Scottish Ministers by virtue of section 49, and
(b) the extent to which any such function (other than a function of making, confirming or approving subordinate legislation) is exercisable by them,
the references in section 50 to the legislative competence of the Parliament are to be read as if section 28(2)(c) were omitted.
(3) Part I of this Schedule does not prevent an Act of the Scottish Parliament modifying, or conferring power by subordinate legislation to modify, any of the provisions mentioned in sub-paragraph (1) so as to provide for a function transferred to the Scottish Ministers by virtue of section 49 to be exercisable by a different person.").
On Question, amendments agreed to.
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