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Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe: I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, and to the Chairman of Committees, for the kind remarks they made about me. The Chairman of Committees dwelt a little on my previous existence as Chief Whip. In order to refresh your Lordships' memories, perhaps I might say that we lost our majority in government when the late John Stonehouse crossed the Floor of the House. By the time we finally fell, he was out on parole.

As regards the size of majorities, we had a Division on one occasion. I was not in the Chamber, I was talking to my friend, Ian Aitken, the former lobby correspondent. The result went up, and we had won by two. I turned to Ian and said, "There you are Ian, overkill". So I am quite familiar with those matters.

I do not want to go into the details of the scheme although I understand that if the surface is restored to its original condition it would not consist of granite setts but gravel. But I am not surprised by all the support from other bodies because the one thing that everyone is excellent at doing is spending somebody else's money. They are queuing up to approve of that.

The noble Baroness, Lady David, said that it is no good looking at this matter or thinking of it as £2.5 million being spent on a car park. I understand that, but that is how it will be viewed from outside. At this time, your Lordships are receiving a great deal of publicity. At the same time, in juxtaposition, we are asked to approve this scheme to spend £2.5 million. As stated by the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, constitutional change is in the air. I should have thought that any scheme such as this should be postponed. Therefore, with great regret and resisting the blandishments, I beg to move my amendment.

Moved, as an amendment to the Chairman of Committees' Motion, leave out all the words after ("That") and insert ("this House declines to approve the Seventh Report from the Select Committee (HL Paper 153), in view of the substantial disagreement amongst the members of the Administration and Works Sub-Committee on the question whether the scheme to refurbish Old Palace Yard be proceeded with at a cost of £2.44 million.").--(Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe.)

3.43 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 52; Not-Contents, 190.

Division No. 1


Ailesbury, M.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Berkeley, L. [Teller.]
Berners, B.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Butterworth, L.
Cadman, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Chapple, L.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. [Teller.]
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Cross, V.
Davidson, V.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dixon, L.
Downshire, M.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Harlech, L.
Hesketh, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hooper, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jopling, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Northesk, E.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Scanlon, L.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Stockton, E.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Tebbit, L.
Turner of Camden, B.


Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Bach, L.
Barnard, L.
Barnett, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Beloff, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blackstone, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Borrie, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burns, L.
Calverley, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carter, L. [Teller.]
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cockfield, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Cranborne, V.
Crawley, B.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
David, B.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Erne, E.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Forbes, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Hardie, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Headfort, M.
Henderson of Brompton, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Holderness, L.
Hothfield, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Jacobs, L.
Jay of Paddington, B. [Lord Privy Seal.]
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Kenyon, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kimball, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Lauderdale, E.
Layton, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E.
Lockwood, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Merrivale, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Monteagle of Brandon, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Munster, E.
Nicol, B.
Norfolk, D.
Northbourne, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Paul, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rawlings, B.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rowallan, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharples, B.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stair, E.
Stallard, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L. [Teller.]
Sudeley, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trumpington, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warnock, B.
Westbury, L.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Windlesham, L.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

18 Nov 1998 : Column 1287

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Registration of Political Parties Bill

3.54 p.m.

Read a third time.

Clause 5 [Emblems]:

The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Williams of Mostyn) moved Amendment No. 1:

Page 2, line 18, leave out ("two") and insert ("three").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this group consists of Amendments Nos. 1 and 2. If it is to your Lordships' convenience, I shall speak to both.

These amendments leave out "two" and insert "three". At Report, your Lordships agreed to a series of government amendments, the effect of which was to increase from one to two the number of emblems a party may register. That was done specifically at the request of the noble Lord, Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish, and the noble Lord then in charge on behalf of the Liberal Democrat party, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, who stood in for his noble colleague. Having agreed to two, as an extraordinarily generous concession, it was then realised that the Conservatives and the Liberal

18 Nov 1998 : Column 1288

Democrats might require three. In the spirit of conciliation which so pervades our present discussions, I beg to move the amendment.

Lord Goodhart: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for meeting the difficulties of both my party and the Conservatives. The provision will now allow all parties to have separate emblems for England, Scotland and Wales, which some have already or wish to have. In those circumstances, we are pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Williams of Mostyn, has taken this further step.

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