House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

Previous Next Page 52 1997-98 Volume 231       Tuesday 3 June 1997 The House met at half-past two o’clock. The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present: Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Aberdare, L. Ackner, L. Acton, L. Addington, L. Addison, V. Ailesbury, M. Ailsa, M. Aldington, L. Alexander of Tunis, E. Allen of Abbeydale, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Alport, L. Ampthill, L. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Annaly, L. Annan, L. Archer of Sandwell, L. Arran, E. Ashbourne, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Astor of Hever, L. Attlee, E. Avebury, L. Balfour, E. Balfour of Inchrye, L. Barber, L. Barber of Tewkesbury, L. Barnett, L. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Beaverbrook, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Bellwin, L. Beloff, L. Berkeley, L. Berners, B. Biddulph, L. Birdwood, L. Blackstone, B. Blaker, L. Blatch, B. Blease, L. Boardman, L. Borrie, L. Boston of Faversham, L. Boyd-Carpenter, L. Brain, L. Brentford, V. Bridge of Harwich, L. Bridgeman, V. Bridges, L. Brightman, L. Brigstocke, B. Broadbridge, L. Brookeborough, V. Brooks of Tremorfa, L. Brougham and Vaux, L. Burnham, L. Butterfield, L. Butterworth, L. Byford, B. Cadman, L. Cairns, E. Caithness, E. Calverley, L. Campbell of Alloway, L. Campbell of Croy, L. Carlisle, E. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Carnock, L. Carr of Hadley, L. Carter, L. Chalfont, L. Chalker of Wallasey, B. Chapple, L. Charteris of Amisfield, L. Chesham, L. Chichester, Bp. Clancarty, E. Clanwilliam, E. Clark of Kempston, L. Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Clinton, L. Cockfield, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Coleraine, L. Colville of Culross, V. Colwyn, L. Constantine of Stanmore, L. Cooke of Thorndon, L. Courtown, E. Cowdray, V. Cowley, E. Cox, B. Craig of Radley, L. Craigavon, V. Craigmyle, L. Cranborne, V. Cranbrook, E. Crathorne, L. Crickhowell, L. Cross, V. Cuckney, L. Cullen of Ashbourne, L. Cumberlege, B. Dahrendorf, L. Darcy de Knayth, B. David, B. Davidson, V. Dean of Beswick, L. Dean of Harptree, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Denbigh, E. Denton of Wakefield, B. Desai, L. Devonport, V. Dixon-Smith, L. Donaldson of Kingsbridge, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Downshire, M. Dundonald, E. Eatwell, L. Eccles of Moulton, B. Eden of Winton, L. Effingham, E. Elis-Thomas, L. Ellenborough, L. Elles, B. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Ely, M. Enniskillen, E. Erroll, E. Erroll of Hale, L. Exmouth, V. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkland, V. Fisher of Rednal, B. Fitt, L. Flather, B. Foley, L. Fraser of Carmyllie, L. Freyberg, L. Gainford, L. Gainsborough, E. Gallacher, L. Gardner of Parkes, B. Geddes, L. Geraint, L. Gillmore of Thamesfield, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Glenamara, L. Glenarthur, L. Gormanston, V. Goschen, V. Gould of Potternewton, B. Gowrie, E. Graham of Edmonton, L. Grantchester, L. Gray of Contin, L. Greenhill of Harrow, L. Greenway, L. Gregson, L. Grey, L. Grimston of Westbury, L. Halsbury, E. Hankey, L. Hanson, L. Hanworth, V. Harding of Petherton, L. Hardwicke, E. Harmar-Nicholls, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Harrowby, E. Page 53 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Haslam, L. Hayhoe, L. Hayman, B. Hayter, L. Hemphill, L. Henley, L. Hertford, M. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hindlip, L. Hogg, B. Holderness, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. HolmPatrick, L. Home, E. Hooson, L. Hope of Craighead, L. Hothfield, L. Howe, E. Howell, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Huntingdon, E. Hylton, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Ilchester, E. Inglewood, L. Ironside, L. Jakobovits, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jenkin of Roding, L. Jenkins of Hillhead, L. Jenkins of Putney, L. Johnston of Rockport, L. Judd, L. Kenilworth, L. Kennet, L. Kilbracken, L. Kilmarnock, L. Kimball, L. King of Wartnaby, L. Kingsdown, L. Kingsland, L. Kinloss, Ly. Kinnoull, E. Kirkhill, L. Kirkwood, L. Knights, L. Knollys, V. Lane of Horsell, L. Lauderdale, E. Lawrence, L. Layton, L. Leigh, L. Lindsay, E. Lindsey and Abingdon, E. Liverpool, E. Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E. Lockwood, B. Long, V. Longford, E. Lovell-Davis, L. Lowry, L. Lucas, L. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Luke, L. Lyell, L. Lytton, E. McColl of Dulwich, L. McConnell, L. Macfarlane of Bearsden, L. McFarlane of Llandaff, B. McIntosh of Haringey, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Mackie of Benshie, L. Macleod of Borve, B. McNally, L. Mallalieu, B. Mar, C. Mar and Kellie, E. Marlesford, L. Marsh, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Mason of Barnsley, L. Melville, V. Merlyn-Rees, L. Merrivale, L. Mersey, V. Meston, L. Middleton, L. Milner of Leeds, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Monckton of Brenchley, V. Monk Bretton, L. Monkswell, L. Montagu of Beaulieu, L. Montgomery of Alamein, V. Moran, L. Morris of Castle Morris, L. Mottistone, L. Mountevans, L. Mowbray and Stourton, L. Moyne, L. Moynihan, L. Munster, E. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Napier and Ettrick, L. Napier of Magdâla, L. Nathan, L. Nelson, E. Nicol, B. Noel-Buxton, L. Norfolk, D. Norrie, L. Northbourne, L. Northesk, E. O’Cathain, B. Ogmore, L. Oppenheim-Barnes, B. Orr-Ewing, L. Palmer, L. Park of Monmouth, B. Paul, L. Peel, E. Pender, L. Perry of Southwark, B. Peston, L. Peyton of Yeovil, L. Phillips of Ellesmere, L. Pike, B. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Plumb, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Porter of Luddenham, L. Prior, L. Prys-Davies, L. Quinton, L. Quirk, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rankeillour, L. Rawlings, B. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Rees, L. Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L. Renton, L. Renwick, L. Richard, L. Ripon, Bp. Rix, L. Robson of Kiddington, B. Rodney, L. Romney, E. Rotherwick, L. Russell, E. Sackville, L. Sainsbury, L. St. Davids, V. St. John of Bletso, L. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sandford, L. Sandwich, E. Scanlon, L. Seccombe, B. Sefton of Garston, L. Selborne, E. Sempill, L. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Shannon, E. Sharples, B. Shaughnessy, L. Shepherd, L. Simon, V. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Skelmersdale, L. Slim, V. Smith, L. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Somerset, D. Soper, L. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L. Spens, L. Stallard, L. Stewartby, L. Stodart of Leaston, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Strange, B. Strathalmond, L. Strathcarron, L. Strathclyde, L. Sudeley, L. Suffolk and Berkshire, E. Swansea, L. Swinfen, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Tanlaw, L. Taverne, L. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Taylor of Warwick, L. Terrington, L. Page 54 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Teviot, L. Teynham, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Swynnerton, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thurlow, L. Thurso, V. Tombs, L. Tordoff, L. Trefgarne, L. Trumpington, B. Turner of Camden, B. Ullswater, V. Vinson, L. Vivian, L. Waddington, L. Wade of Chorlton, L. Wakeham, L. Walker of Worcester, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Walpole, L. Warnock, B. Waterford, M. Weatherill, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Westbury, L. Whaddon, L. Wharton, B. White, B. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Wilberforce, L. Williams of Elvel, L. Wilson of Tillyorn, L. Winchilsea and Nottingham, E. Winston, L. Wright of Richmond, L. Wyatt of Weeford, L. Zouche of Haryngworth, L. PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Ripon. 1. Oaths and affirmations—The Lords following took and subscribed the oath, or made and subscribed the solemn affirmation, pursuant to statute: Charles John Marquess of Ely (Lord Loftus) James Assheton Lord Zouche of Haryngworth Lionel Bertrand Lord Sackville George Cecil Brooke Lord Forester Charles Borlase Marsham Lord Cullen of Ashbourne Robert Lord Haslam Norman Somerville Lord Macfarlane of Bearsden Archibald George Earl of Eglinton Simon Dallas Earl Cairns George Lord Porter of Luddenham Michael John James George Robert Earl of Suffolk and Berkshire Hugh Parr Lord Scanlon 2. Leave of Absence—It was ordered that leave of absence be granted to the Earl of Harrington for this Parliament. Judicial Business 3. Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Respondents) v. Thorn Materials Supply Limited and Thorn Resources Limited (Appellants) (England) (lodged 28th May)—The appeal of Thorn Materials Supply Limited and Thorn Resources Limited was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 15th July next. 4. Stern (Respondent) v. Piper and others (Appellants) (England) (lodged 2nd June)—The appeal of Allan Piper, Clive Woolman and Associated Newspapers Limited was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 15th July next. 5. City Council of Bristol (Appellants) v. Lovell (Respondent) (England) (lodged 2nd June)—The appeal of the City Council of Bristol was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 15th July next. 6. Hammond (Petitioner) v. Secretary of State for the Environment and others (Respondents) (lodged 22nd May)—The petition of Michael Roy Hammond praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 7. Rosgill Group Limited (Petitioners) v. Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Respondents) (lodged 23rd May)—The petition of Rosgill Group Limited praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 8. Spectra International Plc (Respondents) v. Hayesoak Limited (Petitioners) and others (lodged 23rd May)—The petition of Hayesoak Limited praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 9. O’Neill and another (Respondents) v. Phillips and others (Petitioners) (lodged 29th May)—The petition of Michael Phillips, Lisa Phillips and Pectal Limited praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. Page 55 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top 10. Regina v. Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Respondents) ex parte Ulster Bank Limited (Petitioners) (lodged 30th May)—The petition of Ulster Bank Limited praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 11. Cunningham (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. Birmingham City Council (Respondents) (lodged 20th May)—The petition of Carol Cunningham praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged. 12. Redrow Homes Limited and others (Appellants) v. Bett Brothers plc and others (Respondents) (Scotland)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 8th July next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed. 13. Baker (suing on his own behalf and on behalf of other members of Syndicate 947 at Lloyd’s since 1957) (Original Appellant and Cross-Respondent) v. Black Sea & Baltic General Insurance Company Limited (Original Respondents and Cross-Appellants)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 14th July next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed. 14. Wilander and another (Petitioners) v. Tobin and another (Respondents) (1996)—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs. 15. Wilander and another (Petitioners) v. Tobin and another (Respondents) (1997)—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs. 16. TSB Bank plc (Respondents) v. Ladsky (Petitioner)—Upon application by the petitioner (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs. 17. Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the Second Report from the Appeal Committee. Hughes and others (Petitioners) v. Hannover Ruckversicherungs-Aktiengesellschaft (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 17th June next. 18. Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the Fourth Report of the Appeal Committee appointed during the dissolution of Parliament— Ward (Liquidator of Oasis Merchandising Services Limited) (Respondent) v. Aitken and others (Respondents) and London Wall Litigation Claims Limited (Petitioners)—That the petition be referred for hearing. Page (Petitioner) v. Sheerness Steel Company Limited (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 17th June next. Wells (Suing by her daughter and next friend Susan Smith) (Petitioner) v. Wells (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 17th June next. Thomas (Suing by his mother and next friend Susan Thomas) (Petitioner) v. Brighton Health Authority (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 17th June next. 19. Appeal Committee—The Fourth Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made— Williams and another (Respondents) v. Natural Life Health Foods Limited and Mistlin (Petitioner)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 17th June next. Empress Car Company (Abertillery) Limited (Petitioners) v. National Rivers Authority (Respondents)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 17th June next. McMeechan (Respondent) v. Secretary of State for Employment (now Secretary of State for Trade and Industry) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused. Barclays Bank plc (Respondents) v. Thomson (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. Banque Financière de la Citeú (Petitioners) v. Parc (Battersea) Limited and others (Respondents)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 17th June next. B C Industries Limited (Respondents) v. Ball (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988. Page 56 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Papers 20. Instrument withdrawn—The following instrument, laid before the House on 22nd May, was withdrawn: Draft Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 Compensation Scheme. 21. Command Papers—The following papers, having been laid before the House by command of Her Majesty on the dates shown, were ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Social Security—Convention between the United Kingdom and Jamaica on Social Security with Protocol; (23rd May)   (3666) 2. Commercial Debts—Exchange of Notes between the United Kingdom and Mali concerning Certain Commercial Debts; (23rd May)   (3659) 3. Defence—Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty; (23rd May)   (3665) 4. Immigration—Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules; (28th May)   (3669) 5. Treaty Series—Index to Treaty Series 1996; (3rd June)   (3660) 6. Armed Forces—Supplement to the 26th Report of the Review Body on Armed Forces Pay on Service Medical and Dental Officers. (3rd June)   (3655) 22. Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 68)—The following statutory instruments, having been laid before the House on the dates shown, were ordered to lie on the Table: Title, etc. S.I. No. 1993 Date of laying Negative Instruments Novel Foods and Novel Food Ingredients (Fees) Regulations 1997, laid under the Finance Act 1973; 1336 23rd May Novel Foods and Novel Food Ingredients Regulations 1997, laid under the Food Safety Act 1990; 1335 ,, ,, Gloucestershire Health Authority (Transfers of Trust Property) Order 1997, laid under the National Health Service Act 1977; 1326 28th May Merchant Shipping (Safe Manning, Hours of Work and Watchkeeping) Regulations 1997, laid under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995; 1320 29th May Control of Trade in Endangered Species (Enforcement) Regulations 1997, laid under the European Communities Act 1972; 1372 30th May Drug Trafficking Act 1994 (Designated Countries and Territories) (Amendment) Order 1997, laid under the Drug Trafficking Act 1994; 1318 ,, ,, Criminal Justice (International Co-operation) Act 1990 (Enforcement of Overseas Forfeiture Orders) (Amendment) Order 1997, laid under the Criminal Justice (International Co-operation) Act 1990; 1317 ,, ,, Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Designated Countries and Territories) (Amendment) Order 1997, laid under the Criminal Justice Act 1988; 1316 ,, ,, Education (Individual Pupils’ Achievements) (Information) Regulations 1997, laid under the Education Act 1996; 1368 ,, ,, Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 1997, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1988; 1340 2nd June Child Support Commissioners (Procedure) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 1997, laid under the Child Support (Northern Ireland) Order 1991; — ,, ,, Instrument not subject to parliamentary proceedings Companies Overseas Branch Registers (Hong Kong) Order 1997, laid under the Hong Kong Act 1985. 1313 30th May 23. Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Draft Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 Compensation Scheme; Page 57 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top 2. Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1996 (Amendment) Order 1997.   (1403) 24. Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Legal Aid in Criminal Proceedings (Costs) (Amendment) Rules (Northern Ireland) 1997, laid under the Legal Aid, Advice and Assistance (Northern Ireland) Order 1981;   (—) 2. Merchant Shipping (Mandatory Ships’ Routeing) Regulations 1997, laid under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995;   (1341) 3. Road Traffic (Special Parking Area) (London Borough of Croydon) Order 1997, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1991.   (1342) 25. Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Statement of guarantee given by the Treasury in respect of temporary borrowing by the Audit Commission from Lloyds Bank plc, laid under the Local Government Finance Act 1982; 2. Statement of guarantee given by the Treasury in respect of temporary borrowing by Magnox Electric plc from National Westminster Bank plc, laid under the Electricity Act 1989; 3. Statement of guarantee given by the Treasury in respect of temporary borrowing by the British Coal Corporation from National Westminster Bank plc, laid under the Coal Industry Nationalisation Act 1946; 4. Government Annuities and Insurances, laid under the Government Annuities Act 1929; 5. 1. Statement of guarantee given by the Secretary of State for Health in respect of temporary borrowing by Hereford Hospitals NHS Trust— 2. Statements of guarantee given by the Secretary of State for Wales in respect of borrowing by—   (i) North Glamorgan NHS Trust—   (ii) Llanelli/Dinefwr NHS Trust—   (iii) Glan Clwyd NHS Trust—   (iv) Carmarthen and District NHS Trust—   (v) Bridgend and District NHS Trust—   laid under the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990; 6. Report for 16th January 1996 to 15th January 1997 of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (In Liquidation) to the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, laid under the Insolvency Regulations 1994; 7. Report by the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland: Towards Better Practice in the Management of Education and Library Board Transport Services, laid under the Audit (Northern Ireland) Order 1987; 8. (i) Irvine Development Corporation Dissolution Accounts for 1st January to 21st March 1997— (ii) Livingston Development Corporation Realisation Statement for 1st January to 21st March 1997— (iii) Cumbernauld Development Corporation Dissolution Accounts for 1st January to 21st March 1997—   laid under the New Towns (Scotland) Act 1968; 9. Atomic Weapons Establishment Act 1991 Amendment Order 1997, laid under the Atomic Weapons Establishment Act 1991.   (1396) Public Business 26. European Communities—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that a select committee be appointed to consider Community proposals, whether in draft or otherwise, to obtain all necessary information about them, and to make reports on those which, in the opinion of the Committee, raise important questions of policy or principle, and on other questions to which the Committee considers that the special attention of the House should be drawn; That, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the Committee: Page 58 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top L. Ashbourne L. Barnett L. Bridges L. Elis-Thomas L. Geddes L. Gisborough L. Haslam B. Hilton of Eggardon L. Hoffmann L. Hussey of North Bradley L. Kingsland L. Marsh B. Ramsay of Cartvale L. Reay L. Tordoff (Chairman) L. Wallace of Saltaire L. Walpole B. Williams of Crosby L. Willoughby de Broke; That the Committee have power to appoint sub-committees and to refer to such sub-committees any of the matters within the terms of reference of the committee; that the Committee have power to appoint the Chairmen of sub-committees, but that such sub-committees have power to appoint their own Chairman for the purpose of particular enquiries; that two be the quorum of such sub-committees; That the Committee have power to co-opt any Lord for the purpose of serving on a sub-committee; That the Committee have leave to report from time to time; That the Committee and any sub-committee have power to adjourn from place to place; That the Committee have power to appoint specialist advisers; That the Reports of the Committee from time to time shall be printed notwithstanding any adjournment of the House; That the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee or any sub-committee from time to time shall, if the Committee think fit, be printed and delivered out; That the minutes of evidence taken before the European Communities Committee or any sub-committee in the last session of Parliament be referred to the Committee; and That the Committee do meet this day at a quarter-past four o’clock; the motion was agreed to. 27. Science and Technology—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that a select committee be appointed to consider science and technology and that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the Select Committee: L. Carmichael of Kelvingrove L. Craig of Radley L. Dainton L. Dixon-Smith L. Flowers L. Gregson B. Hogg L. Howie of Troon L. Jenkin of Roding L. Kirkwood L. Perry of Walton L. Phillips of Ellesmere (Chairman) L. Porter of Luddenham L. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior L. Tombs L. Winston; That the Committee have power to appoint sub-committees and that the Committee have power to appoint the Chairmen of sub-committees; That the Committee have power to co-opt any Lord for the purpose of serving on the Committee or any sub-committee; That the Committee have leave to report from time to time; That the Committee and any sub-committee have power to adjourn from place to place; That the Committee and any sub-committee have power to appoint specialist advisers; That the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee or any sub-committee from time to time shall, if the Committee think fit, be printed and delivered out; and That the Committee do meet on Tuesday 10th June at half-past ten o’clock; the motion was agreed to. 28. National Health Service (Private Finance) Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Baroness Jay of Paddington that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House. 29. Pharmacists Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Baroness Flather that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House. 30. Poverty Traps—The Earl Russell asked Her Majesty’s Government what measures they are contemplating to reduce poverty traps which prevent people getting off benefit and into work; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Hollis of Heigham. The House was adjourned at eighteen minutes past seven o’clock till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.