House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

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Page 59


Volume 231      

Wednesday 4 June 1997

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Lester of Eccles, B.
Aberdare, L.
Abinger, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour, E.
Barber of Tewkesbury, L.
Barnett, L.
Bath, M.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Bellwin, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blake, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Boyd-Carpenter, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradford, E.
Brain, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brookeborough, V.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buckinghamshire, E.
Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Caldecote, V.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Canterbury, Abp.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chapple, L.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clifford of Chudleigh, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Clyde, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Crook, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dainton, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
De Freyne, L.
De Ramsey, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denbigh, E.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Desai, L.
Devonport, V.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Kingsbridge, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Dubs, L.
Dundonald, E.
Durham, Bp.
Eames, L.
Eatwell, L.
Effingham, E.
Elibank, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Ely, M.
Enniskillen, E.
Erroll, E.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Flowers, L.
Foley, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gainford, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gillmore of Thamesfield, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glenamara, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Goschen, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenhill of Harrow, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Habgood, L.
Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hankey, L.
Hanworth, V.
Harding of Petherton, L.

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Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harrowby, E.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayter, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Hesketh, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Howell, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Huntly, M.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inchyra, L.
Ironside, L.
Jakobovits, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Judd, L.
Kenilworth, L.
Kennet, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kilpatrick of Kincraig, L.
Kimball, L.
Kindersley, L.
Kingsdown, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood, L.
Knollys, V.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Layton, L.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lewin, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E.
Lloyd-Webber, L.
Lockwood, B.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Loudoun, C.
Lowry, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
Macclesfield, E.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Manton, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mersey, V.
Methuen, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Nelson, E.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Paul, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Ellesmere, L.
Pike, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prentice, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Pym, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Robertson of Oakridge, L.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Sainsbury, L.
Saint Albans, D.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Samuel, V.
Sandwich, E.
Savile, L.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Sempill, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Sidmouth, V.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stallard, L.
Stanley of Alderley, L.
Stockton, E.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Swinton, E.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Terrington, L.

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Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Warnock, B.
Waterford, M.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Weidenfeld, L.
Westbury, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Woolton, E.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Wyatt of Weeford, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.
Zouche of Haryngworth, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Ripon.

1.Baroness Lestor of Eccles—Miss Joan Lestor, having been created Baroness Lestor of Eccles, of Tooting Bec, in the London Borough of Wandsworth, for life by Letters Patent, dated 4th June 1997 (see appendix), was introduced between the Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove and the Baroness Gould of Potternewton, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and made and subscribed the solemn affirmation pursuant to statute.
2.Oaths and affirmations—The Lords following took and subscribed the oath, or made and subscribed the solemn affirmation, pursuant to statute:

Barbara Huddleston Countess of Loudoun
Alan David Bishop of Blackburn
John Ailwyn Lord De Ramsey
John Tonge Anthony Pellew Viscount Sidmouth
James Lord Blyth of Rowington
Granville Charles Gomer Marquess of Huntly
Donald Sage Lord Mackay of Drumadoon
David Harvie Lord Kirkwood
Thomas Alexander Lord Hesketh

Judicial Business

3.Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department and another (Respondents) ex parte Canbolat (Petitioner)—The petition of Gulay Canbolat praying for leave to appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order II has expired was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
4.British Telecommunications plc (Appellants) v. James Thomson & Sons (Engineers) Limited (Respondents) (Scotland)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 15th July next or to the third sitting day after the next ensuing meeting of the House (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.


5.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Police Act 1997 (Commencement No. 1 and Transitional Provisions) Order 1997, laid under the Police Act 1997;
2. (i)Rules of the Supreme Court (Northern Ireland) (Amendment No. 2) 1997—(—)
(ii)Crown Court (Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996) (Tainted Acquittals) Rules (Northern Ireland) 1997—(—)
 laid under the Judicature (Northern Ireland) Act 1978.
6.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Report for 1996 of the Office of Electricity Regulation, laid under the Electricity Act 1989.

Public Business

7.Statutory Instruments—A message was brought from the Commons that they concur with this House in the resolution relative to statutory instruments communicated in the message of 20th May last, and that they propose that their Committee do meet with any Committee appointed by the Lords on Thursday 5th June at half-past four o’clock.

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8.Business of the House—It was moved by the Lord Privy Seal (Lord Richard) that the debate on the motion in the name of the Viscount Cranborne set down for this day shall be limited to 5 hours; the motion was agreed to.
9.Delegated Powers and Deregulation—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that a select committee be appointed to report whether the provisions of any bill inappropriately delegate legislative power; to report on documents laid before Parliament under section 3(3) of the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994 and on draft orders laid under section 1(4) of that Act; and to perform, in respect of such documents and orders, the functions performed in respect of other instruments by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments; and that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the Committee:
L. Alexander of Weedon
L. Ampthill
L. Archer of Sandwell
L. Dahrendorf
L. Dean of Harptree
L. Kingsland
L. Merlyn-Rees
B. Perry of Southwark;

That the Committee have power to appoint sub-committees;

That the Committee and sub-committee have power to adjourn from place to place within the United Kingdom;

That the Committee have power to co-opt any Lord for the purpose of serving on the Committee or a sub-committee;

That the Committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

That the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee or any sub-committee shall, if the Committee think fit, be printed and delivered out;

That the Committee do meet on Monday 9th June at half-past ten o’clock;

the motion was agreed to.

10.Public Service—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that a Select Committee be appointed to consider the present condition and future development of the Public Service in Great Britain with particular regard to the effectiveness of recent and continuing changes and their impact on standards of conduct and service in the public interest;

That, for the purposes of the Committee, the Public Services shall be deemed to exclude local government, the National Health Service, schools and institutions of higher and further education, but to include all Government Departments, executive agencies, non-departmental public bodies and other organisations created by or working for the public service;

That, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the Committee:

L. Brabazon of Tara
L. Croham
L. Cuckney
L. Gillmore of Thamesfield
L. Hayhoe
L. Lane of Horsell
L. McNally
L. Merlyn-Rees
E. Russell
B. Serota
L. Slynn of Hadley
B. Turner of Camden;

That the Committee have power to adjourn from place to place;

That the Committee have leave to report from time to time;

That the Committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

That the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee from time to time shall, if the Committee think fit, be printed and delivered out;

That the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee in the last session of Parliament be referred to the Committee;

That the Committee do meet on Tuesday 17th June at a quarter-past four o’clock;

the motion was agreed to.

11.Inter-Governmental Conference (5-hour debate)—It was moved by the Viscount Cranborne that there be laid before the House papers relating to the case for measures at the Inter-governmental Conference in Amsterdam designed to enhance the ability of the European Union to compete economically world-wide and thereby lay the foundation for jobs and prosperity throughout Europe; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.

The House was adjourned at twenty-three minutes before seven o’clock
till tomorrow, three o’clock.

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ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our trusty and well beloved Miss Joan Lestor to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baroness Lestor of Eccles of Tooting Bec in Our London Borough of Wandsworth

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baroness Lestor of Eccles to have and to hold unto her for her life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that she may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that she may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster the fourth day of June in the forty-sixth year of Our Reign