House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98) |
Lords Journals Contents Index Alphabetical list of Lords Minutes and Order Papers |
Thursday 3 July 1997 The House met at three oclock. The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present: Irvine of Lairg, L.
Page 135
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Cooke of Islandreagh, L. Cooke of Thorndon, L. Courtown, E. Cox, B. Craig of Radley, L. Craigavon, V. Cranborne, V. Crathorne, L. Crickhowell, L. Crook, L. Cross, V. Cuckney, L. Cullen of Ashbourne, L. Cumberlege, B. Currie of Marylebone, L. Dahrendorf, L. David, B. Davidson, V. De Freyne, L. Dean of Beswick, L. Dean of Harptree, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Denbigh, E. Denham, L. Denton of Wakefield, B. Desai, L. Diamond, L. Dilhorne, V. Dixon-Smith, L. Donaldson of Kingsbridge, L. Donaldson of Lymington, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Downshire, M. Dubs, L. Dundee, E. Eatwell, L. Eccles of Moulton, B. Effingham, E. Elibank, L. Elis-Thomas, L. Ellenborough, L. Elles, B. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Erroll, E. Evans of Parkside, L. Ewing of Kirkford, L. Exmouth, V. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkender, B. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Feldman, L. Ferrers, E. Fisher of Rednal, B. Fitt, L. Flather, B. Fraser of Carmyllie, L. Freyberg, L. Gainford, L. Gainsborough, E. Gallacher, L. Gardner of Parkes, B. Geraint, L. Gilbert, L. Gisborough, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. |
Glasgow, E. Glenamara, L. Gormanston, V. Goschen, V. Gould of Potternewton, B. Graham of Edmonton, L. Gray, L. Gray of Contin, L. Greene of Harrow Weald, L. Greenway, L. Gregson, L. Grenfell, L. Grey, E. Hacking, L. Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L. Halsbury, E. Hamilton of Dalzell, L. Hampton, L. Hamwee, B. Hankey, L. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Harding of Petherton, L. Hardwicke, E. Harmar-Nicholls, L. Harmsworth, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Haskel, L. Hayhoe, L. Hayman, B. Hayter, L. Healey, L. Hemphill, L. Henderson of Brompton, L. Henley, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hogg, B. Holderness, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. HolmPatrick, L. Home, E. Hooper, B. Hooson, L. Hope of Craighead, L. Howe, E. Howell, L. Howell of Guildford, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Hussey of North Bradley, L. Hylton, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Ilchester, E. Inchcape, E. Inchyra, L. Inglewood, L. Ironside, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. Kenilworth, L. Kennet, L. Keyes, L. Kilbracken, L. Kilmarnock, L. Kimball, L. |
Kingsland, L. Kinloss, Ly. Kinnoull, E. Kintore, E. Kirkhill, L. Kitchener, E. Knollys, V. Lane of Horsell, L. Lauderdale, E. Lawson of Blaby, L. Layton, L. Leathers, V. Leconfield and Egremont, L. Leigh, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Lestor of Eccles, B. Lichfield, Bp. Lindsay, E. Liverpool, E. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. Longford, E. Lovell-Davis, L. Lowry, L. Lucas, L. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Lyell, L. Lytton, E. McCarthy, L. McColl of Dulwich, L. McConnell, L. McFarlane of Llandaff, B. McIntosh of Haringey, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Mackie of Benshie, L. MacLehose of Beoch, L. Macleod of Borve, B. McNair, L. McNally, L. Mallalieu, B. Mar and Kellie, E. Marsh, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Mason of Barnsley, L. Massereene and Ferrard, V. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Merrivale, L. Mersey, V. Methuen, L. Miller of Hendon, B. Milverton, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Molyneaux of Killhead, L. Monckton of Brenchley, V. Monkswell, L. Monson, L. Montagu of Beaulieu, L. Montgomery of Alamein, V. Moore of Wolvercote, L. Moran, L. Morris of Castle Morris, L. Mottistone, L. Mountevans, L. Mountgarret, V. Mowbray and Stourton, L. Moynihan, L. Munster, E. |
Murray of Epping Forest, L. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Napier and Ettrick, L. Nathan, L. Nicol, B. Noel-Buxton, L. Norfolk, D. Norrie, L. Northesk, E. OCathain, B. Ogmore, L. Onslow, E. Oxford, Bp. Oxfuird, V. Park of Monmouth, B. Parry, L. Paul, L. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Pender, L. Perry of Southwark, B. Perry of Walton, L. Perth, E. Peston, L. Pike, B. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Plant of Highfield, L. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Porter of Luddenham, L. Prentice, L. Prior, L. Prys-Davies, L. Quirk, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rankeillour, L. Rathcavan, L. Rawlings, B. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Rees, L. Rees-Mogg, L. Rennell, L. Renton, L. Renwick, L. Richard, L. Richardson, L. Ripon, Bp. |
Ritchie of Dundee, L. Rix, L. Robson of Kiddington, B. Rochester, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogers of Riverside, L. Romney, E. Rowallan, L. Runcie, L. Russell, E. Sainsbury, L. St. Davids, V. St. John of Bletso, L. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Samuel, V. Sanderson of Bowden, L. Sandys, L. Seccombe, B. Sefton of Garston, L. Selsdon, L. Sempill, L. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Shannon, E. Shaughnessy, L. Shaw of Northstead, L. Shepherd, L. Shore of Stepney, L. Simon, V. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Simon of Highbury, L. Skelmersdale, L. Slim, V. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L. Stallard, L. Steel of Aikwood, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Strafford, E. Strange, B. Strathcarron, L. Strathclyde, L. Strathcona and Mount Royal, L. Strathmore and Kinghorne, E. Sudeley, L. |
Swansea, L. Swinfen, L. Swinton, E. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Tanlaw, L. Taverne, L. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Taylor of Warwick, L. Tebbit, L. Temple of Stowe, E. Tenby, V. Terrington, L. Teviot, L. Teynham, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Thurlow, L. Thurso, V. Tonypandy, V. Tordoff, L. Trefgarne, L. Trumpington, B. Turner of Camden, B. Vivian, L. Waddington, L. Wallace of Coslany, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Waverley, V. Weatherill, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Wedgwood, L. Weidenfeld, L. Westbury, L. Wharton, B. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Wilcox, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Willoughby de Broke, L. Wise, L. Wyatt of Weeford, L. Young, B. Young of Dartington, L. |
PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Lichfield.
1. | OathJohn Max Henry Scawen Lord Leconfield and Egremont took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute. |
Judicial Business
2. | Appeal CommitteeThe 13th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made |
Smith (Petitioner) v. Chief Constable of Wiltshire Constabulary and others (Respondents)That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 17th July next.
Regina v. Lockley and another (Petitioners)That leave to appeal be refused.
In re Hill (Petitioner) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus)That leave to appeal be refused.
Cambridge (Respondent) v. Callaghan and Motor Insurers Bureau (Petitioners)That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
Ross (Respondent) v. Owners of the Ship Bowbelle and others (Petitioners)That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for her costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
Papers
3. | Command PapersThe following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table: |
1. | Public AccountsPublic Expenditure 199697: Provisional Outturn; |
(3696) |
2. | HealthSummary of Health and Personal Social Services and Northern Ireland Health Promotion Agency Accounts 199596. |
(3690) |
4. | Affirmative InstrumentsThe following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table: |
1. | Draft Further Education (Northern Ireland) Order 1997; |
2. | Draft Jobseekers Allowance (Workskill Courses) Pilot (No. 2) Regulations 1997. |
5. | Negative InstrumentsThe following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: |
1. (i) | Local Government Pension Scheme Regulations 1997 | (1612) |
(ii) | Local Government Pension Scheme (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 1997 | (1613) |
laid under the Superannuation Act 1972; |
2. | Statute made by All Souls College, Oxford, on 22nd January 1997, laid under the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge Act 1923; |
3. | Third Country Fishing (Enforcement) (Amendment) Order 1997, laid under the Fisheries Act 1981; |
(1629) |
4. | Fishing Boats (Specified Countries) Designation (Variation) Order 1997, laid under the Fishery Limits Act 1976. |
(1630) |
6. | Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedingsThe following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: |
1. | Report and Accounts for 199697 of Tai Cymru Housing for Wales, laid under the Housing Associations Act 1985; |
2. | Report for 199697 of the Scottish Legal Aid Board, laid under the Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 1986; |
3. | Report for 199697 of the Police Complaints Authority, laid under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. |
Private Business
7. | Southampton International Boat Show BillThe bill was read a third time and passed. |
Public Business
8. | National Health Service (Private Finance) Bill [HL]The bill was read a third time; an amendment was agreed to; after debate, the bill was passed and sent to the Commons. |
9. | Referendums (Scotland and Wales) BillThe House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list 1); amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was agreed to (see division list 2); the House was resumed. |
10. | Northern Ireland Act 1974 (Interim Period Extension) Order 1997It was moved by the Lord Dubs that the draft Order laid before the House on 17th June be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to. |
11. | Referendums (Scotland and Wales) BillThe House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed after amendment 44. |
The House was adjourned at thirteen minutes past ten oclock
to Monday next, half-past two oclock.
DIVISIONS
Division No. 1
REFERENDUMS (SCOTLAND AND WALES) BILL
It was moved by the Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish, in Clause 1, page 1, line 9, to leave out (papers) and insert (paper); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:
Contents.............91
Not-Contents.............131
CONTENTS
Addison, V. Ailsa, M. Alexander of Tunis, E. Ashbourne, L. Astor of Hever, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Beloff, L. Blatch, B. Bowness, L. Boyd-Carpenter, L. Broadbridge, L. Buckinghamshire, E. Cadman, L. Caithness, E. Carnegy of Lour, B. Charteris of Amisfield, L. Chesham, L. [Teller] Clanwilliam, E. Coleridge, L. Cranborne, V. Crickhowell, L. Cullen of Ashbourne, L. Cumberlege, B. Davidson, V. De Freyne, L. Dean of Harptree, L. Denham, L. Denton of Wakefield, B. Dilhorne, V. |
Dixon-Smith, L. Downshire, M. Ellenborough, L. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L. Halsbury, E. Hamilton of Dalzell, L. Harding of Petherton, L. Hayhoe, L. Hemphill, L. HolmPatrick, L. Hooper, B. Keyes, L. Kingsland, L. Kinnoull, E. Kintore, E. Lauderdale, E. Lindsay, E. Liverpool, E. Lucas, L. Lucas of Chilworth, L. McColl of Dulwich, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Merrivale, L. Milverton, L. Monckton of Brenchley, V. Monson, L. Mottistone, L. |
Mountevans, L. Mowbray and Stourton, L. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Napier and Ettrick, L. Norfolk, D. Norrie, L. OCathain, B. Oxfuird, V. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Pender, L. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Prentice, L. Rankeillour, L. Rees, L. Rennell, L. Renton, L. Renwick, L. Romney, E. Rowallan, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sanderson of Bowden, L. Seccombe, B. Shaw of Northstead, L. Strathclyde, L. [Teller] Taylor of Warwick, L. Trefgarne, L. Trumpington, B. Vivian, L. Wedgwood, L. Wilcox, B. Wise, L. Young, B. |
NOT-CONTENTS
Addington, L. Ailesbury, M. Alderdice, L. Allen of Abbeydale, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Birdwood, L. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Callaghan of Cardiff, L. Calverley, L. Carlisle, E. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carter, L. [Teller] Castle of Blackburn, B. Clancarty, E. Clinton-Davis, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Currie of Marylebone, L. Dahrendorf, L. David, B. |
Dean of Beswick, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Desai, L. Diamond, L. Donaldson of Kingsbridge, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dubs, L. Eatwell, L. Elis-Thomas, L. Evans of Parkside, L. Ewing of Kirkford, L. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkender, B. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Fisher of Rednal, B. Fitt, L. Gallacher, L. Geraint, L. Gilbert, L. |
Glasgow, E. Gould of Potternewton, B. Graham of Edmonton, L. Grenfell, L. Hampton, L. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. Hooson, L. Howell, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. |
Kilbracken, L. Kirkhill, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. Lovell-Davis, L. McCarthy, L. McConnell, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] McNair, L. Mallalieu, B. Mar and Kellie, E. Mason of Barnsley, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Methuen, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Morris of Castle Morris, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Nicol, B. Ogmore, L. |
Parry, L. Paul, L. Perth, E. Peston, L. Plant of Highfield, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Rees-Mogg, L. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Ritchie of Dundee, L. Robson of Kiddington, B. Rochester, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogers of Riverside, L. Sainsbury, L. St. Davids, V. Sefton of Garston, L. Serota, B. |
Sewel, L. Shepherd, L. Shore of Stepney, L. Simon, V. Simon of Highbury, L. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Strafford, E. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taverne, L. Tenby, V. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thurlow, L. Thurso, V. Tordoff, L. Turner of Camden, B. Wallace of Coslany, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Wigoder, L. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. |
Division No. 2
REFERENDUMS (SCOTLAND AND WALES) BILL
It was moved by the Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish, in Clause 2, page 2, line 4, at end to insert (under section 1(1)); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:
Contents.............101
Not-Contents.............94
CONTENTS
Allenby of Megiddo, V. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Ashbourne, L. Astor of Hever, L. Attlee, E. Baker of Dorking, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Biddulph, L. Blatch, B. Bowness, L. Brabazon of Tara, L. Brookeborough, V. Brougham and Vaux, L. Burnham, L. Byford, B. Cadman, L. Campbell of Alloway, L. Campbell of Croy, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Chalker of Wallasey, B. Chesham, L. [Teller] Colwyn, L. Courtown, E. Cranborne, V. Crickhowell, L. Cumberlege, B. De Freyne, L. Denton of Wakefield, B. Dixon-Smith, L. Downshire, M. Eccles of Moulton, B. Elton, L. |
Feldman, L. Ferrers, E. Flather, B. Fraser of Carmyllie, L. Gardner of Parkes, B. Hamilton of Dalzell, L. Hankey, L. Harding of Petherton, L. Henley, L. HolmPatrick, L. Home, E. Howe, E. Kingsland, L. Kintore, E. Lauderdale, E. Leigh, L. Lindsay, E. Liverpool, E. Lucas, L. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Lyell, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Mersey, V. Miller of Hendon, B. Milverton, L. Molyneaux of Killead, L. Monson, L. Mountevans, L. Mountgarret, V. Mowbray and Stourton, L. |
Moynihan, L. Munster, E. Norrie, L. Northesk, E. Onslow, E. Oxfuird, V. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Prentice, L. Prior, L. Rankeillour, L. Rawlings, B. Rees, L. Rennell, L. Renton, L. Rowallan, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sanderson of Bowden, L. Seccombe, B. Sempill, L. Shaw of Northstead, L. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Skelmersdale, L. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L. Strange, B. Strathclyde, L. [Teller] Swinton, E. Taylor of Warwick, L. Tebbit, L. Trumpington, B. Vivian, L. Waddington, L. Weatherill, L. Wharton, B. Willoughby de Broke, L. Wise, L. |
NOT-CONTENTS
Addington, L. Alderdice, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Brooks of Tremorfa, L. Carlisle, E. Carter, L. [Teller] Castle of Blackburn, B. Chandos, V. Clinton-Davis, L. Currie of Marylebone, L. David, B. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Desai, L. Diamond, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dubs, L. Eatwell, L. Elis-Thomas, L. Evans of Parkside, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkender, B. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Fitt, L. Gallacher, L. Geraint, L. Gilbert, L. |
Glasgow, E. Gould of Potternewton, B. Graham of Edmonton, L. Gregson, L. Grenfell, L. Hamwee, B. Hardie, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. Hooson, L. Howell, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. [Lord Chancellor] Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. Kilbracken, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Lestor of Eccles, B. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. Lovell-Davis, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] Mackie of Benshie, L. Mallalieu, B. |
Mar and Kellie, E. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Morris of Castle Morris, L. Nicol, B. Ogmore, L. Parry, L. Paul, L. Prys-Davies, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Richard, L. [Lord Privy Seal] Rogers of Riverside, L. Russell, E. St. Davids, V. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Simon of Highbury, L. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thurso, V. Tordoff, L. Turner of Camden, B. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitty, L. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Mostyn, L. |