House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

Previous Next Page 198 1997-98 Volume 231       Thursday 24 July 1997 The House met at ten o’clock. The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present: Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Aberdare, L. Ackner, L. Addington, L. Addison, V. Ailesbury, M. Ailsa, M. Alexander of Tunis, E. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Ampthill, L. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Archer of Sandwell, L. Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L. Arran, E. Ashbourne, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Astor of Hever, L. Attlee, E. Avebury, L. Baldwin of Bewdley, E. Balfour, E. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Beaverbrook, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Beloff, L. Berkeley, L. Bethell, L. Biddulph, L. Birdwood, L. Blackstone, B. Blaker, L. Blatch, B. Blease, L. Blyth, L. Boardman, L. Borrie, L. Boston of Faversham, L. Boyd-Carpenter, L. Brabazon of Tara, L. Brain, L. Braine of Wheatley, L. Bramall, L. Brentford, V. Brigstocke, B. Broadbridge, L. Brookeborough, V. Brooks of Tremorfa, L. Brougham and Vaux, L. Broughshane, L. Browne-Wilkinson, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Bruntisfield, L. Burnham, L. Butterworth, L. Byford, B. Byron, L. Cadman, L. Caldecote, V. Callaghan of Cardiff, L. Calverley, L. Campbell of Alloway, L. Campbell of Croy, L. Carew, L. Carlisle, E. Carlisle of Bucklow, L. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Carr of Hadley, L. Carter, L. Carver, L. Chalfont, L. Chalker of Wallasey, B. Charteris of Amisfield, L. Chelmsford, V. Chesham, L. Chichester, Bp. Clancarty, E. Clanwilliam, E. Clark of Kempston, L. Clyde, L. Cockfield, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Colwyn, L. Constantine of Stanmore, L. Cooke of Thorndon, L. Courtown, E. Cox, B. Craig of Radley, L. Craigavon, V. Cranborne, V. Cranbrook, E. Crathorne, L. Cuckney, L. Cullen of Ashbourne, L. Cumberlege, B. Dahrendorf, L. Darcy de Knayth, B. David, B. Davidson, V. De Freyne, L. Dean of Beswick, L. Dean of Harptree, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Denbigh, E. Denham, L. Denton of Wakefield, B. Desai, L. Devonport, V. Dilhorne, V. Dixon, L. Dixon-Smith, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dunrossil, V. Elibank, L. Elis-Thomas, L. Elles, B. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Erroll, E. Erroll of Hale, L. Evans of Parkside, L. Ewing of Kirkford, L. Ezra, L. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Ferrers, E. Flather, B. Fraser of Carmyllie, L. Freyberg, L. Gainford, L. Gainsborough, E. Gallacher, L. Gardner of Parkes, B. Geraint, L. Gillmore of Thamesfield, L. Gisborough, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Glenamara, L. Glenarthur, L. Goff of Chieveley, L. Gormanston, V. Gould of Potternewton, B. Gowrie, E. Graham of Edmonton, L. Grantley, L. Greenway, L. Gregson, L. Grenfell, L. Grey, E. Gridley, L. Hacking, L. Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L. Halsbury, E. Harding of Petherton, L. Hardwicke, E. Harlech, L. Harmar-Nicholls, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Harrowby, E. Haskel, L. Hayhoe, L. Hayter, L. Headfort, M. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hoffmann, L. Holderness, L. HolmPatrick, L. Hooper, B. Hooson, L. Hope of Craighead, L. Howe, E. Howell, L. Howell of Guildford, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Huntingdon, E. Hussey of North Bradley, L. Page 199 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Hutton, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Ilchester, E. Inchcape, E. Inchyra, L. Ingleby, V. Inglewood, L. Ironside, L. Jakobovits, L. James of Holland Park, B. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jenkin of Roding, L. Jenkins of Hillhead, L. Jenkins of Putney, L. Kenilworth, L. Kennet, L. Kilbracken, L. Kingsland, L. Kinloss, Ly. Kinnoull, E. Kintore, E. Kirkhill, L. Lauderdale, E. Lawrence, L. Lawson of Blaby, L. Layton, L. Leicester, E. Leicester, Bp. Leigh, L. Lestor of Eccles, B. Lindsey and Abingdon, E. Lloyd of Berwick, L. Lockwood, B. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. Long, V. Longford, E. Lowry, L. Lucas, L. Lyell, L. McCarthy, L. McColl of Dulwich, L. McConnell, L. McFarlane of Llandaff, B. McIntosh of Haringey, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Mackie of Benshie, L. Macleod of Borve, B. McNair, L. McNally, L. Marlesford, L. Marsh, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Mason of Barnsley, L. Massereene and Ferrard, V. Merlyn-Rees, L. Merrivale, L. Mersey, V. Methuen, L. Middleton, L. Miller of Hendon, B. Milner of Leeds, L. Milverton, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Molyneaux of Killhead, L. Monckton of Brenchley, V. Monk Bretton, L. Monkswell, L. Monson, L. Montagu of Beaulieu, L. Monteagle of Brandon, L. Montgomery of Alamein, V. Montrose, D. Morris of Castle Morris, L. Mottistone, L. Mountevans, L. Mowbray and Stourton, L. Moyne, L. Moynihan, L. Munster, E. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Nelson, E. Newall, L. Nicol, B. Noel-Buxton, L. Nolan, L. Norfolk, D. Norrie, L. Northesk, E. Norton, L. O’Cathain, B. Oppenheim-Barnes, B. Oxfuird, V. Park of Monmouth, B. Parkinson, L. Paul, L. Pender, L. Perry of Walton, L. Peston, L. Petre, L. Peyton of Yeovil, L. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Plant of Highfield, L. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Poole, L. Porter of Luddenham, L. Prior, L. Prys-Davies, L. Pym, L. Quinton, L. Quirk, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rankeillour, L. Rathcavan, L. Rawlings, B. Rea, L. Rees, L. Rennell, L. Renton, L. Renwick, L. Richard, L. Richardson, L. Rix, L. Rosslyn, E. Runcie, L. Sainsbury, L. St. John of Bletso, L. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sandford, L. Sandwich, E. Sandys, L. Seccombe, B. Sefton of Garston, L. Selsdon, L. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Shannon, E. Sharples, B. Shaughnessy, L. Shaw of Northstead, L. Shore of Stepney, L. Simon, V. Simon of Highbury, L. Skelmersdale, L. Slynn of Hadley, L. Smith, L. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Spens, L. Stallard, L. Steel of Aikwood, L. Stewartby, L. Steyn, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Strafford, E. Strathcarron, L. Strathclyde, L. Sudeley, L. Swinfen, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Taylor of Warwick, L. Tenby, V. Terrington, L. Teviot, L. Teynham, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Swynnerton, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Thurlow, L. Thurso, V. Torphichen, L. Trumpington, B. Turner of Camden, B. Tweeddale, M. Tweedsmuir, L. Ullswater, V. Vinson, L. Vivian, L. Waddington, L. Wakeham, L. Walpole, L. Waverley, V. Weatherill, L. Wedgwood, L. Westbury, L. Whaddon, L. Wharton, B. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Wilcox, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Winston, L. Wise, L. Woolton, E. Wright of Richmond, L. Wyatt of Weeford, L. Young, B. Page 200 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Liverpool. Judicial Business 1. Attorney General’s Reference No. 3 of 1994—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the point of law referred to this House pursuant to Section 36 of the Criminal Justice Act 1972 following the Order of the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) of 24th November 1995 be answered in the terms set out in the speeches of Lord Mustill and Lord Hope of Craighead; and that the costs of the accused person be paid out of Central Funds in accordance with section 36(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 1972. 2. Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Pierson (A.P.) (Appellant)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was ageed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 5th December 1995 be set aside and the Order of Mr. Justice Turner of 10th November 1995 be restored; that the Respondent do pay to the Appellant his costs in the Court of Appeal and in this House, the amount of such last-mentioned costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties; and that the costs of the Appellant be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988. 3. Regina v. Brown (Appellant) (On appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—The Cause was considered; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) of 15th June 1994 be affirmed and the Appeal dismissed and that the question certified by the Court of Appeal on 2nd December 1994 be answered in the negative. 4. Regina v. Mills (Appellant) (On appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))— 5. Regina v. Poole (Appellant) (On appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))— (Consolidated Appeals)— The Cause was considered; it was ordered and adjudged that the answer to the question certified in both Appeals on 1st November 1996 be that it is the duty of prosecuting counsel to provide a copy of the statement of the witness to the defence and that the duty is not limited to furnishing only the name and address of the witness; but that the Orders of the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) of 16th April 1996 be affirmed and the appeals dismissed. 6. Regina v. Burstow (Appellant) (On appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))— 7. Regina v. Ireland (Appellant) (On appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))— The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that, in the case of Burstow, the Order of the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) of 29th July 1996 be affirmed and the Appeal dismissed and that the question certified by the Court of Appeal on 6th August 1996 be answered in the affirmative. In the case of Ireland, it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) of 14th May 1996 be affirmed and the Appeal dismissed. 8. In re S (a minor) (1997)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 18th December 1996 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed with a declaration that E had been wrongfully retained out of the jurisdiction contrary to Article 3 of the Hague Convention and that, for the purposes of section 23(2) and Articles 1 and 12 of Schedule 2 to the Child Abduction and Custody Act 1985, the removal of E from the jurisdiction was unlawful; and that there be no order as to costs save that the costs of the first Appellant and the Respondent be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988. 9. Connelly (A.P.) (Appellant) v. RTZ Corporation plc and others (Respondents)— 10. Connelly (Respondent) v. RTZ Corporation plc and others (Appellants)— The Causes were considered; Counsel were heard on a question of undertakings; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 18th August 1995 and the Order of Sir John Wood of 28th February 1995 be set aside and that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 2nd May 1996 be affirmed save as to paragraph 3 and save as to the schedule; that in the appeal in which Mr. Connelly is the Appellant, the Respondents do pay to the Appellant his costs in this House, in the Court of Appeal and before Sir John Wood and that, in the appeal in which Mr. Connelly is the Respondent, the Appellants do pay to the Respondent his costs in this House, in the Court of Appeal and before Mr. David Steele, the amounts of the costs in this House to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties; and that, in the proceedings in which the Appellant was legally aided, his costs be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988. 11. Regina v. Myers (Appellant) (On appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) of 3rd April 1996 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed. Page 201 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top 12. National Home Loans Corporation Plc (Petitioners) v. Giffen Couch and Archer (a firm) (Respondents) (lodged 17th July)—The petition of National Home Loans Corporation Plc praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 13. Chiron Corporation and others (Respondents) v. Organon Teknika Limited and others (Petitioners) (1996)—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs. 14. Chiron Corporation and others (Respondents) v. Murex Diagnostics Limited (Petitioners) (1996)—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs. 15. Chiron Corporation and others (Petitioners) v. Murex Diagnostics Limited and others (Respondents) (1996)—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs. 16. Appeal Committee—The 20th Report was made; the Appeal Committee reported that they had met and heard Counsel; the Report was agreed to and the following Orders were made— Gerber Garment Technology Inc. (Petitioners) v. Lectra Systems Limited and others (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the petitioners do pay to the respondents the costs of the petition, the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. British United Provident Association and others (Respondents) v. Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the petitioners do pay to the respondents the costs of the petition, the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. 17. Appeal Committee—The 21st Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made— Regina v. Constanza (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused. 18. Appeal Committee—The 22nd Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made— Grovit (Appellant) and others v. Doctor and others (Respondents)—That the petition of the second respondent (praying that an interim payment be made in respect of his costs of the appeal) be allowed, and it was ordered that the sum of £5,000 be released to the said second respondent forthwith, to be paid from the money lodged by the first appellant pursuant to Standing Order V, without prejudice to any application or petition in respect of the taxation of the respondents’ costs. The House was adjourned during pleasure. The House was resumed. Papers 19. Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Monopolies and Mergers—MMC Report on the merger situation between Technicolor Limited and Metrocolor London Limited;   (3720) 2. Judicial Statistics—Judicial Statistics for England and Wales 1996;   (3716) 3. Scotland—Scotland’s Parliament: Government Proposals;   (3658) 4. Animals—Statistics of Scientific Procedures on Living Animals Great Britain 1996.   (3722) 20. Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of the Duke of York’s Royal Military School, laid under the Exchequer and Audit Departments Act 1921; 2. Report for 1996–97 of the Northern Ireland Prison Service, laid under the Prison Act (Northern Ireland) 1953; 3. Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of the Royal Mint, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Government Trading Funds Act 1973; 4. Accounts for 1996–97 of the Teacher Training Agency, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Education Act 1994; 5. Report for 1996–97 of the Deer Commission for Scotland, laid under the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996; Page 202 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top 6. Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of— (i) the Rate Collection Agency— (ii) the Social Security Agency—   laid under the Exchequer and Audit Act (Northern Ireland) 1921; 7. Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of the North Hull Housing Action Trust, laid under the Housing Act 1988; 8. Marriage and Divorce Statistics for 1994, laid under the Registration Service Act 1953; 9. Report and Accounts for 1997 of the Civil Aviation Authority, laid under the Civil Aviation Act 1982; 10. Revenue and Capital Accounts for 1996–97 of the Duchy of Lancaster, laid under the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall (Accounts) Act 1838; 11. Accounts for 1996–97 of the School Curriculum and Assessment Authority, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Education Act 1996. Public Business 21. Ministerial and other Salaries Bill—A bill to make provision for the alteration of salaries payable under the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975, was brought from the Commons endorsed with the certificate of the Speaker that the bill is a money bill, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 27) 22. Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill—It was moved by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey that the bill be read a second time; the motion was agreed to and the Committee was negatived; then, Standing Order 44 having been dispensed with, the bill was read a third time and passed. 23. Magistrates’ Courts (Procedure) Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Chancellor that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House. 24. Nuclear Explosions (Prohibition and Inspections) Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House. 25. Jobseeker’s Allowance (Workskill Courses) Pilot (No. 2) Regulations 1997—It was moved by the Baroness Blackstone that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 3rd July be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to. The House was adjourned during pleasure. The House was resumed. 26. Education (Schools) Bill—The bill was returned from the Commons with the amendment disagreed to with a reason for such disagreement; the reason was considered and the Lords amendment was not insisted on. The House was adjourned at thirteen minutes past eight o’clock till tomorrow, eleven o’clock.