House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98) |
Lords Journals Contents Index Alphabetical list of Lords Minutes and Order Papers |
Monday 27 October 1997 The House met at a quarter-past two o’clock. The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present: Irvine of Lairg, L.
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Downshire, M. Effingham, E. Ellenborough, L. Elles, B. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Erroll, E. Evans of Parkside, L. Exmouth, V. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Ferrers, E. Fitt, L. Flather, B. Foley, L. Fookes, B. Fraser of Carmyllie, L. Freyberg, L. Gainford, L. Gallacher, L. Garel-Jones, L. Geddes, L. Geraint, L. Gilbert, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Goschen, V. Graham of Edmonton, L. Grantchester, L. Gray of Contin, L. Greenhill of Harrow, L. Greenway, L. Gregson, L. Grenfell, L. Grey, E. Griffiths, L. Griffiths of Fforestfach, L. Grimston of Westbury, L. Haddington, E. Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L. Halsbury, E. Hamilton of Dalzell, L. Hamwee, B. Hardie, L. Harding of Petherton, L. Hardinge of Penshurst, L. Hardy of Wath, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Harrowby, E. Haskel, L. Hayhoe, L. Hayman, B. Hayter, L. Henley, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hogg, B. Hogg of Cumbernauld, L. Holderness, L. Hollick, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Hooper, B. Hooson, L. Howe, E. Howell, L. Howell of Guildford, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. |
Hughes of Woodside, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Ilchester, E. Ironside, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jellicoe, E. Jenkin of Roding, L. Jenkins of Hillhead, L. Jenkins of Putney, L. Johnston of Rockport, L. Judd, L. Kenilworth, L. Kenyon, L. Kilbracken, L. Kilmarnock, L. Kingsland, L. Kinloss, Ly. Kinnoull, E. Kirkhill, L. Kitchener, E. Knollys, V. Lauderdale, E. Lawrence, L. Lawson of Blaby, L. Layton, L. Leathers, V. Leicester, E. Leigh, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Lindsay, E. Liverpool, E. Lockwood, B. Long, V. Longford, E. Lowry, L. Lucas, L. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Ludford, B. McCarthy, L. Macfarlane of Bearsden, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. MacLaurin of Knebworth, L. Macleod of Borve, B. McNally, L. Mallalieu, B. Mar, C. Marlesford, L. Marsh, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Mason of Barnsley, L. Massereene and Ferrard, V. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Merrivale, L. Mersey, V. Meston, L. Miller of Hendon, B. Milne, L. Milner of Leeds, L. Milverton, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Molyneaux of Killead, L. Monkswell, L. Monson, L. Moran, L. Morris of Castle Morris, L. |
Morris of Manchester, L. Mottistone, L. Mountevans, L. Mowbray and Stourton, L. Moynihan, L. Munster, E. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Napier and Ettrick, L. Nelson, E. Newall, L. Newby, L. Nickson, L. Nicol, B. Noel-Buxton, L. Norfolk, D. Northbourne, L. Norton, L. Ogmore, L. Onslow, E. Oppenheim-Barnes, B. Orr-Ewing, L. Oxford, Bp. Palmer, L. Park of Monmouth, B. Patten, L. Paul, L. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Pender, L. Perry of Southwark, B. Perth, E. Peston, L. Peyton of Yeovil, L. Phillips of Ellesmere, L. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Plant of Highfield, L. Platt of Writtle, B. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Porter of Luddenham, L. Prentice, L. Prys-Davies, L. Quirk, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rankeillour, L. Rathcavan, L. Rawlings, B. Rawlinson of Ewell, L. Rea, L. Reading, M. Reay, L. Rees, L. Rennell, L. Renton, L. Renwick, L. Richard, L. Richardson, L. Ripon, Bp. Rix, L. Roberts of Conwy, L. Rochester, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogers of Riverside, L. Romney, E. Rowallan, L. Russell, E. Saatchi, L. Sainsbury, L. St. Davids, V. |
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St. John of Bletso, L. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sandys, L. Savile, L. Seccombe, B. Sefton of Garston, L. Selborne, E. Sempill, L. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Shannon, E. Sharples, B. Shaughnessy, L. Shaw of Northstead, L. Shepherd, L. Simon, V. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Simon of Highbury, L. Skelmersdale, L. Slim, V. Slynn of Hadley, L. Smith, L. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Stafford, L. |
Stallard, L. Stanley of Alderley, L. Stewartby, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Strafford, E. Strange, B. Strathcarron, L. Strathclyde, L. Strathcona and Mount Royal, L. Sudeley, L. Swansea, L. Swinfen, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taverne, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Taylor of Warwick, L. Terrington, L. Teviot, L. Teynham, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thurso, V. Trumpington, B. |
Turner of Camden, B. Tweeddale, M. Ullswater, V. Vivian, L. Waddington, L. Wade of Chorlton, L. Walker of Doncaster, L. Walton of Detchant, L. Waverley, V. Weatherill, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Westbury, L. Whaddon, L. Wharton, B. Whitelaw, V. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Wilberforce, L. Wilcox, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Winchilsea and Nottingham, E. Wise, L. Wright of Richmond, L. |
PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Oxford.
| 1. | Lord Morris of Manchester—The Right Honourable Alfred Morris, having been created Baron Morris of Manchester, of Manchester in the County of Greater Manchester, for life by Letters Patent dated in the afternoon of 6th October 1997 (see appendix 1), was introduced between the Lord Rix and the Lord Ashley of Stoke, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute. |
| 2. | Lord Garel-Jones—The Right Honourable William Armand Thomas Tristan Garel-Jones, having been created Baron Garel-Jones, of Watford in the County of Hertfordshire, for life by Letters Patent dated in the afternoon of 22nd October 1997 (see appendix 2), was introduced between Viscount Cranborne (Lord Cecil) and the Lord Fraser of Carmyllie, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute. |
| 3. | Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe—Clive Brooke Esquire, having been created Baron Brooke of Alverthorpe, of Alverthorpe in the County of West Yorkshire, for life by Letters Patent dated in the afternoon of 23rd October 1997 (see appendix 3), was introduced between the Lord Gladwin of Clee and the Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute. |
| 4. | Lord Hardinge of Penshurst—Julian Alexander Lord Hardinge of Penshurst sat first in Parliament after the death of his father, George Edward Charles Lord Hardinge of Penshurst, having first taken and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute. |
Judicial Business
| 5. | In re Ramda and another (Petitioners) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus)—The petition of Rachid Ramda and Mustapha Boutarfa praying for an extension of time within which the petition may be lodged and for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960, was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. |
| 6. | Williams and another (A.P.) (Respondents) v. Natural Life Health Foods Limited and Mistlin (Appellant)—The respondents’ legal aid certificates were lodged. |
| 7. | Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 14th Report— |
Manifest Shipping Company Limited (Respondents) v. Uni-Polaris Shipping Company Limited and others (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 10th November next.
Newlon Housing Trust (Petitioners) v. Alsulaimen (Respondent) and another—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 10th November next.
| 8. | Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the 17th Report— |
Reckitt & Colman Products Limited (Respondents) v. Richardson-Vicks Inc. (Petitioners) and others—That the petition be referred for hearing.
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| 9. | Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the 19th Report— |
O’Neill and another (Respondents) v. Phillips and others (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 10th November next.
| 10. | Appeal Committee—The 30th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made— |
Regina v. Secretary of State for the Environment (Respondent) ex parte Council of the London Borough of Camden (Petitioners)—That leave to cross-appeal be given, and that the petition of cross-appeal be lodged by 10th November next.
Papers
| 11. | Command Papers—The following papers, having been presented to the House by command of Her Majesty on the dates shown, were ordered to lie on the Table: |
| 1. | Human Rights—Rights Brought Home: The Human Rights Bill: Government proposals; (24th October) |
| (3782) |
| 2. | Defence—Performance Report for 1996–97 of the Ministry of Defence; (24th October) |
| (3781) |
| 3. | Education—The BEST for Special Education, A Welsh Office Green Paper on Special Educational Needs: Government Consultation Document; (27th October) |
| (3792) |
| 4. | Museums and Galleries—Financial Statements for 1996–97 of the Museum of London. (27th October) |
| (—) |
| 12. | Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 68)—The following negative instruments, having been laid before the House on 24th October, were ordered to lie on the Table: |
| 1. | Imported Food Regulations 1997, laid under the Food Safety Act 1990; |
| (2537) |
| 2. | Protection of Wrecks (Designation No. 4) Order 1997, laid under the Protection of Wrecks Act 1973. |
| (2536) |
| 13. | Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table: |
| 1. | Draft Summer Time Order 1997; |
| 2. | Financial Services Act 1986 (Extension of Scope of Act) Order 1997. |
| 14. | Negative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: |
Social Fund Maternity and Funeral Expenses (General) Amendment Regulations 1997, laid under the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992.
(2538)
| 15. | Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: |
| 1. (i) | Report for 1996–97 of the Joint Nature Conservation Committee— |
| (ii) | Report for 1996–97 of English Nature (Nature Conservancy Council for England)— |
| (iii) | Genetically Modified Organisms (Deliberate Release) Fees and Charges Scheme 1997— |
| laid under the Environmental Protection Act 1990; |
| 2. | Report for 1996–97 of the National Museums and Galleries of Wales, laid under the Museums and Galleries Act 1992; |
| 3. | Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of the Sea Fish Industry Authority, laid under the Fisheries Act 1981; |
| 4. | Accounts for 1996–97 of the UK Ecolabelling Authority, laid under the European Communities Act 1972; |
| 5. | Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of the Commission for the New Towns, laid under the New Towns Act 1981; |
| 6. | Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of British Shipbuilders, laid under the Aircraft and Shipbuilding Industries Act 1977; |
| 7. | Report for 1996–97 of the Office of the Subsidence Adviser, laid under the Coal Industry Act 1994; |
| 8. (i) | Report for 1996–97 and the Directors’ Report and Financial Statements for 1996–97 of the Yorkshire and Humberside Development Agency— |
| (ii) | Report for 1996–97 of Devon and Cornwall Development International— |
| (iii) | Review for 1996–97 and Report and Financial Statements for 1996–97 of the East Midlands Development Company— |
| (iv) | Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of the West of England Development Agency Limited— |
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| (v) | Report for 1996–97 and Report and Financial Statements for 1996–97 of the London First Centre— |
| (vi) | Review for 1996–97 and Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of the Northern Development Company— |
| (vii) | Report for 1996–97 and Directors’ Report and Accounts for 1996–97 of INWARD— |
| (viii) | Accounts for 1996–97 of the West Midlands Development Agency Limited— |
| laid under the Miscellaneous Finance Provisions Act 1983; |
| 9. | (i) Report for 1996–97 of the British Tourist Authority— |
| (ii) | Two Notices of the Appointment of a member of the English Tourist Board— |
| (iii) | Statement by the Secretary of State for National Heritage on the salaries of the Chairman and members of the British Tourist Authority and the English Tourist Board— |
| laid under the Development of Tourism Act 1969. |
Private Business
| 16. | Special Procedure Order—The Report by the Chairman of Committees and the Chairman of Ways and Means in the House of Commons under section 3 of the Statutory Orders (Special Procedure) Act 1945, that no Petitions had been presented against the Manchester Airport (Control of Land by Directions) Order 1997, was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table. |
Public Business
| 17. | Procedure of the House—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the First Report from the Select Committee (HL Paper 28) be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. |
| 18. | Introductions—It was moved by the Lord Privy Seal (Lord Richard) that an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty praying Her Majesty that she will be graciously pleased to place her prerogative and interest so far as they may be concerned at the disposal of the House of Lords for the purpose of the consideration of alterations in the ceremony of Introduction; after debate, the motion was agreed to; it was ordered that the Address be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves. |
| 19. | Parliamentary Privilege—It was ordered that a Message be sent to the Commons to propose that the Committee appointed by them do meet with the Committee appointed by this House as the Joint Committee on Parliamentary Privilege at 11 a.m. on Tuesday 18th November next in Committee Room 4. |
| 20. | Firearms (Amendment) Bill—The bill was read a third time; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); then after debate the bill was passed and returned to the Commons with amendments. |
| 21. | Parliamentary Privilege—A message was brought from the Commons, that they have ordered that the Committee appointed by them do meet the Lords Committee on Tuesday 18th November at 11 a.m. in Committee Room 4, as proposed by this House. |
| 22. | Penal policy—The Earl of Longford asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they will consider the case for a penal policy based on Christian and humanist values; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Williams of Mostyn. |
The House was adjourned at six minutes before nine o’clock
till tomorrow, a quarter-past two o’clock.
DIVISION
FIREARMS (AMENDMENT) BILL
It was moved by the Lord Swansea, in Clause 1, page 1, line 8, to leave out (“the words “a small-calibre pistol” shall cease to have effect”) and insert (“after the words “a small-calibre pistol” the words “which has a barrel length not less than 20.3 cm in length and which is incapable of holding more than one cartridge and is not derived from a multi-shot design” shall be inserted”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:
Contents.............19
Not-Contents.............81
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CONTENTS
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Congleton, L. Cottesloe, L. Cuckney, L. Downshire, M. Haddington, E. |
Halsbury, E. Hylton-Foster, B. Milverton, L. Molloy, L. Monson, L. [Teller] Newall, L. |
Nickson, L. Palmer, L. Rowallan, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Savile, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Swansea, L. [Teller] Wharton, B. |
NOT-CONTENTS
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Acton, L. Addington, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Barnett, L. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Brooks of Tremorfa, L. Calverley, L. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carter, L. [Teller] Castle of Blackburn, B. Clinton-Davis, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. David, B. Davies of Coity, L. Dean of Beswick, L. Desai, L. Diamond, L. Dixon, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Gallacher, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Graham of Edmonton, L. Grantchester, L. |
Gregson, L. Grenfell, L. Hamwee, B. Hardie, L. Hardy of Wath, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hogg of Cumbernauld, L. Hollick, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Jay of Paddington, B. Judd, L. Kilbracken, L. Kirkhill, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Lockwood, B. Ludford, B. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] McNally, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Milner of Leeds, L. |
Morris of Castle Morris, L. Mountevans, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Nelson, E. Newby, L. Nicol, B. Paul, L. Plant of Highfield, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rea, L. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Rogers of Riverside, L. Sewel, L. Simon, V. Simon of Highbury, L. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Strabolgi, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Turner of Camden, B. Walker of Doncaster, L. Whitty, L. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Winchilsea and Nottingham, E. |
APPENDIX 1
ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our right trusty and well beloved Counsellor Alfred Morris to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Morris of Manchester of Manchester in Our County of Greater Manchester
And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Morris of Manchester to have and to hold unto him for his life
Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy
In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster in the afternoon of the sixth day of October in the forty-sixth year of Our Reign
BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL
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APPENDIX 2
ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our right trusty and well beloved Counsellor William Armand Thomas Tristan Garel-Jones to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Garel-Jones of Watford in Our County of Hertfordshire
And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Garel-Jones to have and to hold unto him for his life
Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy
In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster in the afternoon of the twenty-second day of October in the forty-sixth year of Our Reign
BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL
APPENDIX 3
ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our trusty and well beloved Clive Brooke Esquire to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Brooke of Alverthorpe of Alverthorpe in Our County of West Yorkshire
And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Brooke of Alverthorpe to have and to hold unto him for his life
Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy
In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster in the afternoon of the twenty-third day of October in the forty-sixth year of Our Reign
BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL