House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

Previous Next Page 497 1997-98 Volume 231       Thursday 5 February 1998 The House met at two o’clock. The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present: Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Abercorn, D. Aberdare, L. Ackner, L. Acton, L. Addington, L. Addison, V. Ailesbury, M. Ailsa, M. Alderdice, L. Alexander of Tunis, E. Alexander of Weedon, L. Allen of Abbeydale, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Alton of Liverpool, L. Amos, B. Ampthill, L. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Annaly, L. Annan, L. Archer of Sandwell, L. Ashbourne, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Avebury, L. Baldwin of Bewdley, E. Barnett, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Bath, M. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Beaverbrook, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Beloff, L. Belstead, L. Berkeley, L. Berners, B. Biddulph, L. Birdwood, L. Birmingham, Bp. Blackstone, B. Blaker, L. Blatch, B. Blease, L. Blyth, L. Boardman, L. Borrie, L. Boston of Faversham, L. Bowness, L. Brabazon of Tara, L. Braine of Wheatley, L. Bramall, L. Brentford, V. Bridge of Harwich, L. Bridgeman, V. Bridges, L. Brightman, L. Brigstocke, B. Bristol, Bp. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Brooks of Tremorfa, L. Brougham and Vaux, L. Broughshane, L. Browne-Wilkinson, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Bruntisfield, L. Buckinghamshire, E. Burlison, L. Burnham, L. Butterfield, L. Butterworth, L. Byford, B. Cadman, L. Caithness, E. Caldecote, V. Calverley, L. Campbell of Alloway, L. Campbell of Croy, L. Carew, L. Carlisle, E. Carlisle, Bp. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carnarvon, E. Carnegy of Lour, B. Carnock, L. Carter, L. Chalfont, L. Chalker of Wallasey, B. Chandos, V. Charteris of Amisfield, L. Chesham, L. Chichester, Bp. Chorley, L. Clancarty, E. Clanwilliam, E. Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Clifford of Chudleigh, L. Clyde, L. Cockfield, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Coleraine, L. Coleridge, L. Colville of Culross, V. Colwyn, L. Cope of Berkeley, L. Courtown, E. Cox, B. Craig of Radley, L. Craigavon, V. Cranborne, V. Crathorne, L. Crickhowell, L. Cumberlege, B. Currie of Marylebone, L. Dahrendorf, L. David, B. Davidson, V. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Beswick, L. Dean of Harptree, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Denbigh, E. Denham, L. Denton of Wakefield, B. Desai, L. Devonport, V. Dholakia, L. Diamond, L. Dixon, L. Dixon-Smith, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Drogheda, E. Dunrossil, V. Eatwell, L. Eden of Winton, L. Effingham, E. Ellenborough, L. Elles, B. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Emerton, B. Erroll, E. Evans of Parkside, L. Exeter, M. Exmouth, V. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Fitt, L. Flather, B. Fookes, B. Fraser of Carmyllie, L. Freeman, L. Freyberg, L. Gage, V. Gainford, L. Gainsborough, E. Gallacher, L. Gardner of Parkes, B. Garel-Jones, L. Geraint, L. Gilbert, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Gladwyn, L. Glenamara, L. Goff of Chieveley, L. Goodhart, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Gormanston, V. Gould of Potternewton, B. Granard, E. Grantley, L. Greenhill of Harrow, L. Greenway, L. Gregson, L. Grenfell, L. Grey, E. Page 498 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Halsbury, E. Hambro, L. Hamilton of Dalzell, L. Hampden, V. Hamwee, B. Hankey, L. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Harding of Petherton, L. Hardwicke, E. Hardy of Wath, L. Harmar-Nicholls, L. Harmsworth, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Harris of High Cross, L. Haskel, L. Hattersley, L. Hayhoe, L. Hayman, B. Hayter, L. Healey, L. Hemphill, L. Henley, L. Higgins, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hoffmann, L. Hogg of Cumbernauld, L. Holderness, L. Hollick, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. HolmPatrick, L. Home, E. Hooper, B. Hooson, L. Hope of Craighead, L. Howe, E. Howe of Aberavon, L. Howell, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Hurd of Westwell, L. Hussey of North Bradley, L. Hutchinson of Lullington, L. Hylton, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Ilchester, E. Inchcape, E. Inchyra, L. Inglewood, L. Ironside, L. Islwyn, L. Iveagh, E. Jacobs, L. Jakobovits, L. James of Holland Park, B. Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jellicoe, E. Jenkin of Roding, L. Jenkins of Hillhead, L. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. Kenilworth, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Kenyon, L. Kilbracken, L. Kilmarnock, L. Kimball, L. Kinloss, Ly. Kinnoull, E. Kirkhill, L. Kirkwood, L. Kitchener, E. Knight of Collingtree, B. Knollys, V. Lang of Monkton, L. Lauderdale, E. Lawson of Blaby, L. Layton, L. Leathers, V. Leicester, Bp. Leigh, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Levene of Port Soken, L. Levy, L. Lindsay, E. Linklater of Butterstone, B. Liverpool, E. Lloyd of Berwick, L. Lockwood, B. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. London, Bp. Long, V. Lovell-Davis, L. Lowry, L. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Ludford, B. Luke, L. Lyell, L. Lytton, E. McCarthy, L. McColl of Dulwich, L. McConnell, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Macleod of Borve, B. McNair, L. McNally, L. Maddock, B. Mallalieu, B. Malmesbury, E. Mar, C. Mar and Kellie, E. Marlborough, D. Marlesford, L. Marsh, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Mason of Barnsley, L. Massereene and Ferrard, V. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Mersey, V. Meston, L. Methuen, L. Miller of Hendon, B. Milner of Leeds, L. Milverton, L. Minto, E. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Molyneaux of Killead, L. Monckton of Brenchley, V. Monkswell, L. Monson, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Montgomery of Alamein, V. Moore of Wolvercote, L. Moran, L. Morris of Manchester, L. Mottistone, L. Mountevans, L. Moyne, L. Munster, E. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Napier and Ettrick, L. Napier of Magdâla, L. Naseby, L. Nelson, E. Newall, L. Newby, L. Newton of Braintree, L. Nicholson of Winterbourne, B. Nickson, L. Nicol, B. Noel-Buxton, L. Nolan, L. Norrie, L. Northbourne, L. Northesk, E. Norton, L. O’Cathain, B. Ogmore, L. Oliver of Aylmerton, L. Onslow, E. Onslow of Woking, L. Orme, L. Owen, L. Oxford, Bp. Oxfuird, V. Palmer, L. Park of Monmouth, B. Patten, L. Paul, L. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Pender, L. Perry of Walton, L. Perth, E. Peston, L. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Pitkeathley, B. Plant of Highfield, L. Platt of Writtle, B. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Porter of Luddenham, L. Prior, L. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Quirk, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rankeillour, L. Rathcavan, L. Rathcreedan, L. Rawlings, B. Rawlinson of Ewell, L. Rea, L. Reading, M. Reay, L. Redesdale, L. Page 499 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Rendell of Babergh, B. Rennell, L. Renton, L. Renton of Mount Harry, L. Renwick, L. Renwick of Clifton, L. Richard, L. Richardson, L. Ripon, Bp. Ritchie of Dundee, L. Rix, L. Roberts of Conwy, L. Robertson of Oakridge, L. Rochester, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogers of Riverside, L. Roll of Ipsden, L. Romney, E. Rotherwick, L. Rowallan, L. Runciman of Doxford, V. Russell, E. Russell-Johnston, L. Ryder of Warsaw, B. Ryder of Wensum, L. Sainsbury, L. St. John of Bletso, L. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sandberg, L. Sandhurst, L. Sandwich, E. Seccombe, B. Sefton of Garston, L. Selborne, E. Selkirk of Douglas, L. Sempill, L. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Shannon, E. Shaughnessy, L. Shaw of Northstead, L. Shore of Stepney, L. Shrewsbury, E. Simon, V. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Simon of Highbury, L. Skelmersdale, L. Skidelsky, L. Slim, V. Slynn of Hadley, L. Smith of Clifton, L. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L. Southwell, Bp. Stallard, L. Steel of Aikwood, L. Steyn, L. Stodart of Leaston, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Stone of Blackheath, L. Strabolgi, L. Strange, B. Strathclyde, L. Sudeley, L. Swansea, L. Swinfen, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taverne, L. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Taylor of Warwick, L. Tebbit, L. Temple of Stowe, E. Templeman, L. Tenby, V. Teviot, L. Teynham, L. Thatcher, B. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Macclesfield, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Thurso, V. Tope, L. Tordoff, L. Trefgarne, L. Trumpington, B. Turner of Camden, B. Ullswater, V. Vivian, L. Waddington, L. Wade of Chorlton, L. Wakefield, Bp. Wakeham, L. Walker of Doncaster, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Walpole, L. Walton of Detchant, L. Warnock, B. Waterford, M. Watson of Invergowrie, L. Waverley, V. Weatherill, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Westbury, L. Whaddon, L. Wharton, B. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Wilberforce, L. Wilcox, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Winchilsea and Nottingham, E. Young, B. PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Birmingham. Judicial Business 1. Preston and others (Appellants) v. Wolverhampton Healthcare NHS Trust and others (Respondents)— 2. Preston and others (Appellants) v. Wolverhampton Healthcare NHS Trust and others (Respondents) (Second Appeal)— 3. Fletcher and others (Appellants) v. Midland Bank plc (Respondents)— (Conjoined appeals)— The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that, in the case of Preston, the order of the Court of Appeal of 13th February 1997 be affirmed insofar as it relates to the question of domestic law and that that appeal be dismissed; that the following questions be referred to the European Court of Justice for a preliminary ruling under Article 177 of the treaty establishing the European Community— “Where: (a) a claimant has been excluded from membership of an occupational pension scheme by reason of being a part-time worker; and (b) consequently, has not accrued pension benefits referable to service with her employer, which benefits become payable upon reaching pensionable age; and (c) the claimant alleges that such treatment is indirect sex discrimination contrary to Article 119 of the EC Treaty, The following three questions arise: 1. Is: (a) a national procedural rule which requires that a claim for membership of an occupational pension scheme (from which the right to pension benefits flows) which Page 500 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top   is brought in the Industrial Tribunal be brought within six months of the end of the employment to which the claim relates; (b) a national procedural rule which provides that a claimant’s pensionable service is to be calculated only by reference to service after a date falling no earlier than two years prior to the date of her claim (irrespective of whether the date on which pension benefits become payable is before or after the date of the claim) compatible with the principle of EC law that national procedural rules for breach of Community law must not make it excessively difficult or impossible in practice for the claimant to exercise her rights under Article 119? 2. In circumstances where: (a) rights under Article 119 fall, as a matter of domestic law, to be enforced through the medium of a statute which was enacted in 1970, prior to the United Kingdom’s accession to the European Community, and came into effect on 29th December 1975, and which, prior to 8th April 1976, already conferred a right to equal pay and equality of other contractual provisions; (b) the domestic statute contains the procedural rules referred to in question 1 above; (c) other statutes prohibiting discrimination in the employment field, and the domestic law of contract provide for different time limits; (1) Does the implementation of Article 119 through that domestic statute constitute compliance with the principle of EC law that national procedural rules for a breach of Community law must be no less favourable than those which apply to similar claims of a domestic nature? (2) If not, what are the relevant criteria for determining whether another right of action in domestic law is a domestic action similar to the right under Article 119? (3) If a national court identifies any such similar claim in accordance with any criteria identified under (2) above, what, if any, are the relevant criteria under Community law for determining whether the procedural rules governing the similar claim or claims are more favourable than the procedural rules which govern the enforcement of the right under Article 119? 3. In circumstances where: (a) an employee has served under a number of separate contracts of employment for the same employer covering defined periods of time and with intervals between the periods covered by the contracts of employment; (b) after the completion of any contract, there is no obligation on either party to enter into further such contracts; and (c) she initiates a claim within six months of the completion of a later contract or contracts but fails to initiate a claim within six months of any earlier contract or contracts; Is a national procedural rule which has the effect of requiring a claim for membership of an occupational pension scheme from which the right to pension benefits flow to be brought within six months of the end of any contract or contracts of employment to which the claim relates and which, therefore, prevents service under any earlier contract or contracts from being treated as pensionable service, compatible with: (1) the right to equal pay for equal work in Article 119 of the EC Treaty; and (2) the principle of EC law that national procedural rules for breach of Community law must not make it excessively difficult or impossible in practice for the claimant to exercise her rights under Article 119? and that further consideration of the appeals be adjourned sine die. 4. Empress Car Company (Abertillery) Limited (Appellants) v. National Rivers Authority (Respondents) (On appeal from a Divisional Court of the Queen’s Bench Division)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of a Divisional Court of the Queen’s Bench Division of 11th December 1996 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed with costs, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. 5. Campbell (by his mother and next friend Beatie Dorothea Campbell) (Respondent) v. Mylchreest (as personal representative of Lisa Helen Mylchreest, deceased) (Petitioner)—The petition of Michael Robinson Mylchreest for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 6. Appeal Committee—The following order was made pursuant to the 43rd Report: Iberotravel Limited (Respondents) v. Pallas Leasing (Number 32) Limited (formerly Copymore (OA) Rentals Limited) (Petitioners) and others—That the petition be referred for hearing. The House was adjourned during pleasure. The House was resumed. Page 501 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Oath 7. Oath—William Michael Anthony Marquess of Exeter took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute. Papers 8. Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Health— (i) “Working Together for a Healthier Scotland”: Government consultation document; (3854) (ii) “Our Healthier Nation: A Contract for Health”: Government consultation document; (3852) 2. Social Security—Report by the Government Actuary on the drafts of the Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 1998 and the Social Security (Contributions) (Re-rating and National Insurance Fund Payments) Order 1998.   (3860) 9. Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 1998; 2. Draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 1998; 3. Draft Social Security (Incapacity for Work) (General) Amendment Regulations 1998; 4. Draft Social Security (Contributions) (Re-rating and National Insurance Fund Payments) Order 1998. 10. Negative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: Education (Funding for Teacher Training) Designation Order 1998, laid under the Education Act 1994.   (208) Private Business 11. London Local Authorities Bill [HL]—The Chairman of Committees acquainted the House that he had appointed the following Lords to form the Select Committee on the bill: L. Brougham and Vaux E. Caithness L. Desai (Chairman) L. Dholakia V. Simon; it was ordered that the Committee do meet on Tuesday 3rd March at half-past ten o’clock. 12. London Docklands Development Corporation (Transfer of Functions) Order 1998—The report by the Chairman of Committees that no petition had been presented against the draft Order was laid before the House. Public Business 13. Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL]—The bill was returned from the Commons agreed to with amendments and with a privilege amendment; it was ordered that the Commons amendments be printed. (HL Bill 72) 14. Competition Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Simon of Highbury that the amendments for the Report Stage be marshalled and considered in the following order: Clauses 1 to 3 Clauses 17 to 19 Schedules 1 to 4 Clauses 4 to 16 Schedule 5 Clauses 20 to 24 Schedule 6 Clauses 25 to 44 Schedule 7 Clauses 45 to 48 Schedule 8 Clause 49 Schedule 9 Clauses 50 to 52 Schedule 10 Clause 53 Schedule 11 Clauses 54 to 69 Schedules 12 to 14 Clauses 70 and 71; the motion was agreed to. 15. Greater London Authority (Referendum) Bill—The bill was read a third time and passed and returned to the Commons with amendments. Page 502 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top 16. Human Rights Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were disagreed to (see division lists 1, 3, 4 and 5); an amendment was agreed to (see division list 2); further amendments were agreed to; a privilege amendment was agreed to; then, after debate, the bill was passed and sent to the Commons. 17. Contracting Out (Functions in relation to the Management of Crown Lands) Order 1998—It was moved by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey that the draft Order laid before the House on 15th January be approved; the motion was agreed to. 18. Public Bodies (Admission to Meetings) (National Health Service Trusts) Order 1997—It was moved by the Lord Haskel that the Order laid before the House on 20th November be approved; the motion was agreed to. 19. Visiting Forces and International Headquarters (Application of Law) (Amendment) Order 1998—It was moved by the Lord Gilbert that the draft Order laid before the House on 13th January be approved; the motion was agreed to. The House was adjourned at one minute past eleven o’clock to Monday next, half-past two o’clock. DIVISIONS Division No. 1 HUMAN RIGHTS BILL [HL] It was moved by the Lord Campbell of Alloway, before Clause 1, to insert the following new Clause (Special provision for Her Majesty’s armed forces); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided: Contents.............72 Not-Contents.............153 CONTENTS Alexander of Tunis, E. Annaly, L. Ashbourne, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Beloff, L. Blaker, L. Blatch, B. Boardman, L. Caldecote, V. Campbell of Alloway, L. [Teller] Carnegy of Lour, B. Chesham, L. Cockfield, L. Colwyn, L. Cox, B. Craig of Radley, L. Crickhowell, L. Davidson, V. Dixon-Smith, L. Eden of Winton, L. Ellenborough, L. Gormanston, V. Granard, E. Halsbury, E. Hambro, L. Harmsworth, L. Hemphill, L. Holderness, L. HolmPatrick, L. Jakobovits, L. Kinnoull, E. Kitchener, E. Leigh, L. McConnell, L. Macleod of Borve, B. Malmesbury, E. Marlesford, L. Massereene and Ferrard, V. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Miller of Hendon, B. Molyneaux of Killead, L. Monson, L. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Naseby, L. Newall, L. Nickson, L. Norrie, L. Northbourne, L. O’Cathain, B. Onslow of Woking, L. Park of Monmouth, B. Patten, L. Pender, L. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Rawlinson of Ewell, L. Renton, L. Robertson of Oakridge, L. Romney, E. Rotherwick, L. Rowallan, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Shaw of Northstead, L. Shrewsbury, E. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L. Strange, B. Swansea, L. Tebbit, L. Vivian, L. [Teller] Waterford, M. Westbury, L. Wilcox, B. NOT-CONTENTS Ackner, L. Acton, L. Addington, L. Alton of Liverpool, L. Amos, B. Archer of Sandwell, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Avebury, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Bath, M. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Berkeley, L. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Bridge of Harwich, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Burlison, L. Carlisle, E. Carter, L. [Teller] Chandos, V. Charteris of Amisfield, L. Chorley, L. Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Page 503 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Colville of Culross, V. Currie of Marylebone, L. Dahrendorf, L. David, B. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Desai, L. Dholakia, L. Diamond, L. Dixon, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Eatwell, L. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Fitt, L. Gallacher, L. Gilbert, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Goodhart, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Gould of Potternewton, B. Grenfell, L. Hamwee, B. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Hardy of Wath, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Healey, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hollick, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. Howell, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Hylton, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Jacobs, L. Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Kirkwood, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Levy, L. Linklater of Butterstone, B. Lockwood, B. Lovell-Davis, L. Ludford, B. McCarthy, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] McNair, L. McNally, L. Maddock, B. Mallalieu, B. Mar and Kellie, E. Merlyn-Rees, L. Meston, L. Methuen, L. Milner of Leeds, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Morris of Manchester, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Nelson, E. Newby, L. Nicholson of Winterbourne, B. Nicol, B. Orme, L. Paul, L. Peston, L. Pitkeathley, B. Plant of Highfield, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Rochester, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogers of Riverside, L. Russell, E. Sainsbury, L. St. John of Bletso, L. Sandberg, L. Sandwich, E. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Shore of Stepney, L. Simon, V. Smith of Clifton, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taverne, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Tenby, V. Thomas of Macclesfield, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Thurso, V. Tope, L. Tordoff, L. Turner of Camden, B. Walker of Doncaster, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Young of Old Scone, B. Division No. 2 HUMAN RIGHTS BILL [HL] It was moved by the Baroness Young, in Clause 1, page 1, line 11, at end to insert (“sections 2(4) to (7) and 7(7A) to (7C) and to”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided: Contents.............168 Not-Contents.............130* *The Tellers reported 130 votes; the Clerks recorded 129 names. CONTENTS Aberdare, L. Ailesbury, M. Alton of Liverpool, L. Ampthill, L. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Annaly, L. Ashbourne, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Beloff, L. Belstead, L. Berners, B. Biddulph, L. Birdwood, L. Birmingham, Bp. Blaker, L. Blatch, B. Boardman, L. Brabazon of Tara, L. Braine of Wheatley, L. Bridgeman, V. Brigstocke, B. Brougham and Vaux, L. Buckinghamshire, E. Burnham, L. [Teller] Butterworth, L. Byford, B. Cadman, L. Caithness, E. Caldecote, V. Calverley, L. Campbell of Alloway, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Carnock, L. Charteris of Amisfield, L. Chesham, L. Chichester, Bp. Page 504 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Clifford of Chudleigh, L. Cockfield, L. Coleraine, L. Coleridge, L. Cope of Berkeley, L. Cox, B. Craig of Radley, L. Cranborne, V. Crickhowell, L. Cumberlege, B. Dixon-Smith, L. Eden of Winton, L. Ellenborough, L. Elles, B. Elton, L. Falkland, V. Fitt, L. Fookes, B. Gage, V. Gainsborough, E. Gardner of Parkes, B. Grantley, L. Halsbury, E. Hamilton of Dalzell, L. Harding of Petherton, L. Harmsworth, L. Harris of High Cross, L. Hayhoe, L. Hemphill, L. Henley, L. Holderness, L. HolmPatrick, L. Hooper, B. Howe, E. Hylton, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Inchcape, E. Jakobovits, L. James of Holland Park, B. Jenkin of Roding, L. Kenilworth, L. Kenyon, L. Kinloss, Ly. Kinnoull, E. Knight of Collingtree, B. Lauderdale, E. Leicester, Bp. Leigh, L. Linklater of Butterstone, B. Liverpool, E. Lloyd of Berwick, L. London, Bp. Long, V. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Luke, L. Lyell, L. McConnell, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Macleod of Borve, B. Malmesbury, E. Marlesford, L. Massereene and Ferrard, V. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Mersey, V. Miller of Hendon, B. Milverton, L. Molyneaux of Killead, L. Monckton of Brenchley, V. Monson, L. Montgomery of Alamein, V. Mottistone, L. Mountevans, L. Munster, E. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Nelson, E. Norrie, L. Northbourne, L. Northesk, E. Norton, L. O’Cathain, B. Onslow of Woking, L. Oxford, Bp. Oxfuird, V. Park of Monmouth, B. Patten, L. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Pender, L. Perth, E. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Platt of Writtle, B. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Rankeillour, L. Rawlings, B. Rawlinson of Ewell, L. Reading, M. Renton, L. Renton of Mount Harry, L. Renwick, L. Ripon, Bp. Robertson of Oakridge, L. Rochester, L. Romney, E. Rotherwick, L. Rowallan, L. Ryder of Warsaw, B. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Seccombe, B. Selborne, E. Shaw of Northstead, L. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Skelmersdale, L. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L. Southwell, Bp. Stallard, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strange, B. Strathclyde, L. [Teller] Sudeley, L. Swinfen, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Trumpington, B. Ullswater, V. Vivian, L. Wakeham, L. Waterford, M. Weatherill, L. Wharton, B. Wilcox, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Young, B. NOT-CONTENTS Ackner, L. Acton, L. Addington, L. Amos, B. Archer of Sandwell, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Berkeley, L. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Bridge of Harwich, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Burlison, L. Carlisle, E. Carter, L. [Teller] Chandos, V. Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Colville of Culross, V. Craigavon, V. Currie of Marylebone, L. Dahrendorf, L. David, B. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Desai, L. Dholakia, L. Diamond, L. Dixon, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Eatwell, L. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Gallacher, L. Gilbert, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Goodhart, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Gould of Potternewton, B. Grenfell, L. Hamwee, B. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Hardy of Wath, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hoffmann, L. Hollick, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. Howell, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Jacobs, L. Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Kirkwood, L. Page 505 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Lester of Herne Hill, L. Levy, L. Lockwood, B. Ludford, B. McCarthy, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] McNair, L. McNally, L. Maddock, B. Mallalieu, B. Merlyn-Rees, L. Meston, L. Methuen, L. Milner of Leeds, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Morris of Manchester, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Newby, L. Nicholson of Winterbourne, B. Nicol, B. Orme, L. Peston, L. Pitkeathley, B. Plant of Highfield, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Renwick of Clifton, L. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogers of Riverside, L. Russell, E. Sandberg, L. Sandwich, E. Serota, B. Shore of Stepney, L. Simon, V. Smith of Clifton, L. Strabolgi, L. Taverne, L. Thomas of Macclesfield, L. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Tope, L. Tordoff, L. Turner of Camden, B. Walker of Doncaster, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Young of Old Scone, B. Division No. 3 HUMAN RIGHTS BILL [HL] It was moved by the Lord Mackay of Drumadoon, in Clause 3, page 2, line 23, after (“legislation”) to insert (“(save for the Church of Scotland Act 1921)”) which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided: Contents.............57 Not-Contents.............109 CONTENTS Ailesbury, M. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Annaly, L. Beloff, L. Biddulph, L. Blatch, B. Bridgeman, V. Burnham, L. Butterworth, L. Byford, B. Carnegy of Lour, B. Coleraine, L. Coleridge, L. Cox, B. Cumberlege, B. Denham, L. Dixon-Smith, L. Elles, B. Elton, L. Falkland, V. Hamilton of Dalzell, L. Henley, L. [Teller] Holderness, L. HolmPatrick, L. Hooper, B. Howe, E. Inchcape, E. James of Holland Park, B. Kinnoull, E. Leigh, L. Liverpool, E. London, Bp. Long, V. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Luke, L. [Teller] Lyell, L. McColl of Dulwich, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Malmesbury, E. Marlesford, L. Milverton, L. Mountevans, L. O’Cathain, B. Park of Monmouth, B. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Rawlings, B. Renton, L. Ripon, Bp. Rochester, L. Rowallan, L. Selborne, E. Skidelsky, L. Strange, B. Thatcher, B. Vivian, L. Wakeham, L. Young, B. NOT-CONTENTS Acton, L. Addington, L. Amos, B. Archer of Sandwell, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Berkeley, L. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Calverley, L. Carlisle, E. Carter, L. [Teller] Chandos, V. Colville of Culross, V. Currie of Marylebone, L. Dahrendorf, L. David, B. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Desai, L. Dholakia, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Eatwell, L. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Gallacher, L. Gilbert, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Goodhart, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Grenfell, L. Hamwee, B. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Hardy of Wath, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Page 506 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Levy, L. Ludford, B. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] McNair, L. McNally, L. Mallalieu, B. Merlyn-Rees, L. Meston, L. Milner of Leeds, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Morris of Manchester, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Newby, L. Nicholson of Winterbourne, B. Nicol, B. Ogmore, L. Pitkeathley, B. Plant of Highfield, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Renwick of Clifton, L. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogers of Riverside, L. Russell-Johnston, L. Sandberg, L. Serota, B. Simon, V. Slynn of Hadley, L. Smith of Clifton, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Tope, L. Turner of Camden, B. Walker of Doncaster, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Young of Old Scone, B. Division No. 4 HUMAN RIGHTS BILL [HL] It was moved by the Lord Lester of Herne Hill, in Clause 7, page 4, line 24, to leave out subsection (3) and insert— (“(3) Nothing in subsection (1) shall prevent an applicant from bringing an application for judicial review provided that the court considers that he has a sufficient interest in the matter to which the application relates.”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided: Contents.............46 Not-Contents.............71 CONTENTS Ackner, L. Addington, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Bridge of Harwich, L. Burnham, L. Calverley, L. Carlisle, E. Colville of Culross, V. Dahrendorf, L. Dholakia, L. Ezra, L. Falkland, V. Goodhart, L. Hamwee, B. Harris of Greenwich, L. Holderness, L. Holme of Cheltenham, L. Hooper, B. Howe, E. Lester of Herne Hill, L. [Teller] Linklater of Butterstone, B. Lloyd of Berwick, L. Ludford, B. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. McNair, L. McNally, L. Meston, L. Mishcon, L. Newby, L. Nicholson of Winterbourne, B. Ogmore, L. Redesdale, L. [Teller] Renton, L. Ripon, Bp. Rochester, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Russell, E. Russell-Johnston, L. Sandberg, L. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Slynn of Hadley, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Wigoder, L. Williams of Crosby, B. NOT-CONTENTS Acton, L. Archer of Sandwell, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Berkeley, L. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Carter, L. [Teller] Chandos, V. Currie of Marylebone, L. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Desai, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Eatwell, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Gallacher, L. Gilbert, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Grenfell, L. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hoyle, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Page 507 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Levy, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] Mallalieu, B. Merlyn-Rees, L. Milner of Leeds, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Nicol, B. Pitkeathley, B. Plant of Highfield, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rea, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Renwick of Clifton, L. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Rogers of Riverside, L. Rowallan, L. Serota, B. Simon, V. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Turner of Camden, B. Walker of Doncaster, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitty, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Young of Old Scone, B. Division No. 5 HUMAN RIGHTS BILL [HL] It was moved by the Lord Lester of Herne Hill, after Clause 13, to insert the following new Clause (Human Rights Commissioner); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided: Contents.............28 Not-Contents.............77 CONTENTS Ackner, L. Addington, L. Carlisle, E. Colville of Culross, V. Dholakia, L. Falkland, V. Goodhart, L. Hamwee, B. Harris of Greenwich, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. [Teller] Linklater of Butterstone, B. Ludford, B. McNair, L. McNally, L. Meston, L. Newby, L. Nicholson of Winterbourne, B. Ogmore, L. Redesdale, L. [Teller] Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Russell, E. Sandberg, L. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Wigoder, L. Williams of Crosby, B. NOT-CONTENTS Acton, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Archer of Sandwell, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Berkeley, L. Biddulph, L. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Burnham, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Carter, L. [Teller] Chandos, V. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Currie of Marylebone, L. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Desai, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Gilbert, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Grenfell, L. Hamilton of Dalzell, L. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Henley, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hoyle, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Judd, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Levy, L. Luke, L. Lyell, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Mallalieu, B. Milner of Leeds, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Newton of Braintree, L. Nicol, B. Pitkeathley, B. Plant of Highfield, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rawlings, B. Rendell of Babergh, B. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Rogers of Riverside, L. Serota, B. Simon, V. Strabolgi, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Thatcher, B. Turner of Camden, B. Wakeham, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitty, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Young, B. Young of Old Scone, B.